The Murphy Builders Site

I recently purchased a rebel which was on wheels (at the speed I do things
I would be 100 by the time it was finished). I also purchased a set of
Clamar floats that will be installed in the spring in time to be ready for
some fun at the cottage.

I need to purchase a new prop that will be pitched for the float
installation and was looking at the warp drive 4 blade version
(recommended by the manufacturer). I have been told by a couple of people
to go with the Prince prop instead.

Can anyone give me an insight on which would be better? If I went with
the prince, what would be the recommended diameter and pitch?


Regards

Wayne Barrett

Barrett Architect Inc.
708 Gerrard Street East
Toronto, Ontario, M4M 1Y3

Tel 416 469 8000
Fax 416 469 8056
Cel 416 587 1415



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You won't be happy with the 4 blade Warp.. and it's just ugly to boot!
You'll get more help on the Prince prop if you tell everyone what the engine
and HP is...

The Clamars's are a great float and Clair will shoot me for saying it... but
IMHO heavy for a Rebel, so be aware and plan for it. With 180HP on an Elite
though (or if you have that in the Rebel)...they work great. They are a
GREAT performing float that makes up for some of the extra weight that they
are in comparison to the Murphy amphibs. (we are talking at least 160lbs
heavier). I did the very first Elite to Clamar amphib installation on the
planet and know it pretty intimately... then Clair came over and measured my
struts.. ;O)

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne" <Wayne@barrett-architect.com>
To: "Rebel Builders" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 5:07 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Warp drive or Prince prop

I recently purchased a rebel which was on wheels (at the speed I do things
I would be 100 by the time it was finished). I also purchased a set of
Clamar floats that will be installed in the spring in time to be ready for
some fun at the cottage.

I need to purchase a new prop that will be pitched for the float
installation and was looking at the warp drive 4 blade version
(recommended by the manufacturer). I have been told by a couple of people
to go with the Prince prop instead.

Can anyone give me an insight on which would be better? If I went with
the prince, what would be the recommended diameter and pitch?


Regards

Wayne Barrett

Barrett Architect Inc.
708 Gerrard Street East
Toronto, Ontario, M4M 1Y3

Tel 416 469 8000
Fax 416 469 8056
Cel 416 587 1415



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Sorry, the engine is a O-320, 150 hp.

Regards

Wayne Barrett

Barrett Architect Inc.
708 Gerrard Street East
Toronto, Ontario, M4M 1Y3

Tel 416 469 8000
Fax 416 469 8056
Cel 416 587 1415

On 2011-12-02, at 5:36 PM, "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
wrote:

You won't be happy with the 4 blade Warp.. and it's just ugly to boot!
You'll get more help on the Prince prop if you tell everyone what the
engine
and HP is...

The Clamars's are a great float and Clair will shoot me for saying it...
but
IMHO heavy for a Rebel, so be aware and plan for it. With 180HP on an
Elite
though (or if you have that in the Rebel)...they work great. They are a
GREAT performing float that makes up for some of the extra weight that
they
are in comparison to the Murphy amphibs. (we are talking at least 160lbs
heavier). I did the very first Elite to Clamar amphib installation on the
planet and know it pretty intimately... then Clair came over and measured
my
struts.. ;O)

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne" <Wayne@barrett-architect.com>
To: "Rebel Builders" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 5:07 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Warp drive or Prince prop

I recently purchased a rebel which was on wheels (at the speed I do
things
I would be 100 by the time it was finished). I also purchased a set of
Clamar floats that will be installed in the spring in time to be ready
for
some fun at the cottage.

I need to purchase a new prop that will be pitched for the float
installation and was looking at the warp drive 4 blade version
(recommended by the manufacturer). I have been told by a couple of
people
to go with the Prince prop instead.

Can anyone give me an insight on which would be better? If I went with
the prince, what would be the recommended diameter and pitch?


Regards

Wayne Barrett

Barrett Architect Inc.
708 Gerrard Street East
Toronto, Ontario, M4M 1Y3

Tel 416 469 8000
Fax 416 469 8056
Cel 416 587 1415



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I recently purchased a rebel which was on wheels (at the speed I do things
I would be 100 by the time it was finished). I also purchased a set of
Clamar floats that will be installed in the spring in time to be ready for
some fun at the cottage.

I need to purchase a new prop that will be pitched for the float
installation and was looking at the warp drive 4 blade version
(recommended by the manufacturer). I have been told by a couple of people
to go with the Prince prop instead.

Can anyone give me an insight on which would be better? If I went with the
prince, what would be the recommended diameter and pitch?


Regards

Wayne Barrett

Barrett Architect Inc.
708 Gerrard Street East
Toronto, Ontario, M4M 1Y3

Tel 416 469 8000
Fax 416 469 8056
Cel 416 587 1415

Hi Wayne !

I totally agree with Wayne O .... The 4 blade Warp is a terrible
choice ! There's a ton of drag from it when you pull the power off,
so it revs up the engine on approach, with the throttle closed -
all engine guys agree this is really bad for aircraft engines !!
(High rpm - no fuel for cooling - pumping oil ... .... )

There's also the issue of blades cracking - for years, Warp would
not sell a prop for a Lyc - it cost them too much in replacements !

If you tell Prince your engine model & let him pick the pitch,
he will re-pitch free if he's wrong ! There are over 30 Rebels with
Prince props - almost all on amphibs. That said - the Catto looks
like a less expensive choice... Personally, go with 2 blades if
at all possible - always more efficient than 3 or 4 blades !


......bobp
bobp@prosumers.ca
bobp@pattersys.com
http://www.Pattersys.com
http://www.amway.ca/BobPatterson

De-fenestrate now ! Linux is the answer !

Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender
and do not necessarily reflect the views of any other entities or
persons.
Any action taken as a result of the contents of this email is totally the
responsibility of the reader.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/pssignTux.jpg



On Friday 02 December 2011 17:07:43 Wayne wrote:

I recently purchased a rebel which was on wheels (at the speed I do
things
I would be 100 by the time it was finished). I also purchased a set of
Clamar floats that will be installed in the spring in time to be ready
for
some fun at the cottage.

I need to purchase a new prop that will be pitched for the float
installation and was looking at the warp drive 4 blade version
(recommended by the manufacturer). I have been told by a couple of people
to go with the Prince prop instead.

Can anyone give me an insight on which would be better? If I went with
the
prince, what would be the recommended diameter and pitch?


Regards

Wayne Barrett

Barrett Architect Inc.
708 Gerrard Street East
Toronto, Ontario, M4M 1Y3

Tel 416 469 8000
Fax 416 469 8056
Cel 416 587 1415

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Just to tidy up any "scares" Bobp has here.. Warp Drive BLADES have never
cracked or been thrown (to my knowledge)... it's only the aluminum
overmoulding that does so outside the hub clamp area. That said.. he should
have stuck with 70" diameter x 3 blade being his longest that he'd sel
instead of going to the 72"l. I ran my 70" from 1995 until removing it to
try the Prince in 2010... and only because I was too lazy to repitch the
Warp Drive to see if I could get better performance. I've had ZERO issues
with my Warp running it on both a 100HP x O-235-C and a 150 HP x O-320-C2A

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <bobp@prosumers.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 7:28 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Warp drive or Prince prop

Hi Wayne !

I totally agree with Wayne O .... The 4 blade Warp is a terrible
choice ! There's a ton of drag from it when you pull the power off,
so it revs up the engine on approach, with the throttle closed -
all engine guys agree this is really bad for aircraft engines !!
(High rpm - no fuel for cooling - pumping oil ... .... )

There's also the issue of blades cracking - for years, Warp would
not sell a prop for a Lyc - it cost them too much in replacements !

If you tell Prince your engine model & let him pick the pitch,
he will re-pitch free if he's wrong ! There are over 30 Rebels with
Prince props - almost all on amphibs. That said - the Catto looks
like a less expensive choice... Personally, go with 2 blades if
at all possible - always more efficient than 3 or 4 blades !


......bobp
bobp@prosumers.ca
bobp@pattersys.com
http://www.Pattersys.com
http://www.amway.ca/BobPatterson

De-fenestrate now ! Linux is the answer !

Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender
and do not necessarily reflect the views of any other entities or
persons.
Any action taken as a result of the contents of this email is totally

the

responsibility of the reader.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/pssignTux.jpg



On Friday 02 December 2011 17:07:43 Wayne wrote:

I recently purchased a rebel which was on wheels (at the speed I do
things
I would be 100 by the time it was finished). I also purchased a set of
Clamar floats that will be installed in the spring in time to be ready
for
some fun at the cottage.

I need to purchase a new prop that will be pitched for the float
installation and was looking at the warp drive 4 blade version
(recommended by the manufacturer). I have been told by a couple of

people

to go with the Prince prop instead.

Can anyone give me an insight on which would be better? If I went with
the
prince, what would be the recommended diameter and pitch?


Regards

Wayne Barrett

Barrett Architect Inc.
708 Gerrard Street East
Toronto, Ontario, M4M 1Y3

Tel 416 469 8000
Fax 416 469 8056
Cel 416 587 1415

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Sorry, the engine is a O-320, 150 hp.

Regards

Wayne Barrett

Barrett Architect Inc.
708 Gerrard Street East
Toronto, Ontario, M4M 1Y3

Tel 416 469 8000
Fax 416 469 8056
Cel 416 587 1415

On 2011-12-02, at 5:36 PM, "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
wrote:

You won't be happy with the 4 blade Warp.. and it's just ugly to boot!
You'll get more help on the Prince prop if you tell everyone what the
engine
and HP is...

The Clamars's are a great float and Clair will shoot me for saying it...
but
IMHO heavy for a Rebel, so be aware and plan for it. With 180HP on an
Elite
though (or if you have that in the Rebel)...they work great. They are a
GREAT performing float that makes up for some of the extra weight that
they
are in comparison to the Murphy amphibs. (we are talking at least 160lbs
heavier). I did the very first Elite to Clamar amphib installation on the
planet and know it pretty intimately... then Clair came over and measured

my
struts.. ;O)

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne" <Wayne@barrett-architect.com>
To: "Rebel Builders" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 5:07 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Warp drive or Prince prop

I recently purchased a rebel which was on wheels (at the speed I do
things
I would be 100 by the time it was finished). I also purchased a set of
Clamar floats that will be installed in the spring in time to be ready
for
some fun at the cottage.

I need to purchase a new prop that will be pitched for the float
installation and was looking at the warp drive 4 blade version
(recommended by the manufacturer). I have been told by a couple of
people
to go with the Prince prop instead.

Can anyone give me an insight on which would be better? If I went with
the prince, what would be the recommended diameter and pitch?


Regards

Wayne Barrett

Barrett Architect Inc.
708 Gerrard Street East
Toronto, Ontario, M4M 1Y3

Tel 416 469 8000
Fax 416 469 8056
Cel 416 587 1415



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One of the guys here tried a 3 blade Cato on his Elite amphib when he
upgraded to the O-375 engine. On his first flight, he thought there must be
something wrong with his new engine, as his climb rate was less than his old
360 with the Sensenich. But after checking out the engine further and not
finding anything wrong, did some more flying with the new prop. On take-off
it only turned 2450, so he lost take-off performance, and poor top speed as
well, as it also quickly over revved in straight and level. After some phone
and email conversations with the Cato guy, he was not getting any
satisfaction.

Then I let him try my Sensenich from my 360, just to confirm if the new
engine was working properly. His take-off RPM went to 2550, so much better
take-off performance, his climb rate was way higher, and revved lower at
straight and level, but his top speed went up by about 20 mph. So the
Sensenich beat the Cato on take-off, climb and top speed performance.

He then bought a new Sensenich (same as mine that he tested with), and ended
up in a dispute with the Cato guy when he tried to return that prop. I think
the Cato might be better suited to Supercubs with a much lower speed range
than the Rebel.

One thing I learned about the Sensenich props back when I had the 150 hp
320, is that you can't over pitch them. They perform much better at finer
pitch, including top speed. Even 2 inches pitch makes a huge difference. I
found this out when flying with another identical Rebel amphib who had a 74
X 56, while I had a 74 X 54. I would beat him on take-off, climb and top
speed. He then re-pitched his to the same as mine, and our performance was
identical after that.

Another local Rebel amphib had a McCulley and he had really poor
performance. He then bought a Sensench, but the 56 pitch as he had the 160
hp. But he still couldn't match my performance even with the higher hp. He
then re-pitched his also to 54, and then had good performance. So even with
the high compression 320's the 54 pitch Sensenich is still better if you are
on amphibs.

BTW, I had a side by side fly-off with a 360 Supercub on straight floats
this summer from an alpine lake. Both of us had 2 people, and about 3/4
fuel. I got off the water first, much higher climb rate, and of course no
comparison in cruise with the much slower Supercub. So, needless to say, I
am still very happy with my Rebel amphib.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
G. O'Shea
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 3:29 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Warp drive or Prince prop

I'm running a 74-44 on mine (150HP) that came off a 160HP engine. It's just
a hair too coarse to get the full climb RPM that I would like.... but it's
working better than my Warp did and I'm getting out of SHORT back country
lakes with 2 big guys.. 25 gallons of fuel AND the canoe on the right side!

I'm thinking though.. that the prop I installed to Mark Morin's Rebel, 150HP
(Walter Klatt's old engine) was a 74-46 and he's happy with it. Lonnie
Prince's props seem to be here and there when it comes to specific engines
(and pitch they are supposed to be) and in the early days many went back for
a repitch before they got it right.

I'm with Curt as well... if I need to buy another prop, it will be a Catto !

(although I highly doubt I'll head for prop #5 !)

Wayne O'Shea

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne" <Wayne@barrett-architect.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Cc: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 6:17 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Warp drive or Prince prop

Sorry, the engine is a O-320, 150 hp.

Regards

Wayne Barrett

Barrett Architect Inc.
708 Gerrard Street East
Toronto, Ontario, M4M 1Y3

Tel 416 469 8000
Fax 416 469 8056
Cel 416 587 1415

On 2011-12-02, at 5:36 PM, "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
wrote:

You won't be happy with the 4 blade Warp.. and it's just ugly to boot!
You'll get more help on the Prince prop if you tell everyone what the
engine
and HP is...

The Clamars's are a great float and Clair will shoot me for saying it...
but
IMHO heavy for a Rebel, so be aware and plan for it. With 180HP on an
Elite
though (or if you have that in the Rebel)...they work great. They are a
GREAT performing float that makes up for some of the extra weight that
they
are in comparison to the Murphy amphibs. (we are talking at least 160lbs
heavier). I did the very first Elite to Clamar amphib installation on the
planet and know it pretty intimately... then Clair came over and measured

my
struts.. ;O)

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne" <Wayne@barrett-architect.com>
To: "Rebel Builders" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 5:07 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Warp drive or Prince prop




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One of the guys here tried a 3 blade Cato on his Elite amphib when he
upgraded to the O-375 engine. On his first flight, he thought there
must be something wrong with his new engine, as his climb rate was
less than his old
360 with the Sensenich. But after checking out the engine further and
not finding anything wrong, did some more flying with the new prop. On
take-off it only turned 2450, so he lost take-off performance, and
poor top speed as well, as it also quickly over revved in straight and
level. After some phone and email conversations with the Cato guy, he
was not getting any satisfaction.

Then I let him try my Sensenich from my 360, just to confirm if the
new engine was working properly. His take-off RPM went to 2550, so
much better take-off performance, his climb rate was way higher, and
revved lower at straight and level, but his top speed went up by about
20 mph. So the Sensenich beat the Cato on take-off, climb and top speed

He then bought a new Sensenich (same as mine that he tested with), and
ended up in a dispute with the Cato guy when he tried to return that
prop. I think the Cato might be better suited to Supercubs with a much
lower speed range than the Rebel.

One thing I learned about the Sensenich props back when I had the 150
hp 320, is that you can't over pitch them. They perform much better at
finer pitch, including top speed. Even 2 inches pitch makes a huge
difference. I found this out when flying with another identical Rebel
amphib who had a 74 X 56, while I had a 74 X 54. I would beat him on
take-off, climb and top speed. He then re-pitched his to the same as
mine, and our performance was identical after that.

Another local Rebel amphib had a McCulley and he had really poor
performance. He then bought a Sensench, but the 56 pitch as he had the
160 hp. But he still couldn't match my performance even with the
higher hp. He then re-pitched his also to 54, and then had good
performance. So even with the high compression 320's the 54 pitch
Sensenich is still better if you are on amphibs.

BTW, I had a side by side fly-off with a 360 Supercub on straight
floats this summer from an alpine lake. Both of us had 2 people, and
about 3/4 fuel. I got off the water first, much higher climb rate, and
of course no comparison in cruise with the much slower Supercub. So,
needless to say, I am still very happy with my Rebel amphib.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 3:29 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Warp drive or Prince prop

I'm running a 74-44 on mine (150HP) that came off a 160HP engine. It's
just a hair too coarse to get the full climb RPM that I would like....
but it's working better than my Warp did and I'm getting out of SHORT
back country lakes with 2 big guys.. 25 gallons of fuel AND the canoe on

I'm thinking though.. that the prop I installed to Mark Morin's Rebel,
150HP (Walter Klatt's old engine) was a 74-46 and he's happy with it.
Lonnie Prince's props seem to be here and there when it comes to
specific engines (and pitch they are supposed to be) and in the early
days many went back for a repitch before they got it right.

I'm with Curt as well... if I need to buy another prop, it will be a Catto

(although I highly doubt I'll head for prop #5 !)

Wayne O'Shea

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne" <Wayne@barrett-architect.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Cc: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 6:17 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Warp drive or Prince prop

Sorry, the engine is a O-320, 150 hp.

Regards

Wayne Barrett

Barrett Architect Inc.
708 Gerrard Street East
Toronto, Ontario, M4M 1Y3

Tel 416 469 8000
Fax 416 469 8056
Cel 416 587 1415

On 2011-12-02, at 5:36 PM, "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
wrote:

You won't be happy with the 4 blade Warp.. and it's just ugly to boot!
You'll get more help on the Prince prop if you tell everyone what
the engine and HP is...

The Clamars's are a great float and Clair will shoot me for saying it...

but
IMHO heavy for a Rebel, so be aware and plan for it. With 180HP on
an Elite though (or if you have that in the Rebel)...they work
great. They are a GREAT performing float that makes up for some of
the extra weight that they are in comparison to the Murphy amphibs.
(we are talking at least 160lbs heavier). I did the very first Elite
to Clamar amphib installation on the planet and know it pretty
intimately... then Clair came over and measured

my
struts.. ;O)

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne" <Wayne@barrett-architect.com>
To: "Rebel Builders" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 5:07 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Warp drive or Prince prop




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One of the guys here tried a 3 blade Cato on his Elite amphib when he
upgraded to the O-375 engine. On his first flight, he thought there
must be something wrong with his new engine, as his climb rate was
less than his old
360 with the Sensenich. But after checking out the engine further and
not finding anything wrong, did some more flying with the new prop. On
take-off it only turned 2450, so he lost take-off performance, and
poor top speed as well, as it also quickly over revved in straight and
level. After some phone and email conversations with the Cato guy, he
was not getting any satisfaction.

Then I let him try my Sensenich from my 360, just to confirm if the
new engine was working properly. His take-off RPM went to 2550, so
much better take-off performance, his climb rate was way higher, and
revved lower at straight and level, but his top speed went up by about
20 mph. So the Sensenich beat the Cato on take-off, climb and top speed

He then bought a new Sensenich (same as mine that he tested with), and
ended up in a dispute with the Cato guy when he tried to return that
prop. I think the Cato might be better suited to Supercubs with a much
lower speed range than the Rebel.

One thing I learned about the Sensenich props back when I had the 150
hp 320, is that you can't over pitch them. They perform much better at
finer pitch, including top speed. Even 2 inches pitch makes a huge
difference. I found this out when flying with another identical Rebel
amphib who had a 74 X 56, while I had a 74 X 54. I would beat him on
take-off, climb and top speed. He then re-pitched his to the same as
mine, and our performance was identical after that.

Another local Rebel amphib had a McCulley and he had really poor
performance. He then bought a Sensench, but the 56 pitch as he had the
160 hp. But he still couldn't match my performance even with the
higher hp. He then re-pitched his also to 54, and then had good
performance. So even with the high compression 320's the 54 pitch
Sensenich is still better if you are on amphibs.

BTW, I had a side by side fly-off with a 360 Supercub on straight
floats this summer from an alpine lake. Both of us had 2 people, and
about 3/4 fuel. I got off the water first, much higher climb rate, and
of course no comparison in cruise with the much slower Supercub. So,
needless to say, I am still very happy with my Rebel amphib.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 3:29 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Warp drive or Prince prop

I'm running a 74-44 on mine (150HP) that came off a 160HP engine. It's
just a hair too coarse to get the full climb RPM that I would like....
but it's working better than my Warp did and I'm getting out of SHORT
back country lakes with 2 big guys.. 25 gallons of fuel AND the canoe on

I'm thinking though.. that the prop I installed to Mark Morin's Rebel,
150HP (Walter Klatt's old engine) was a 74-46 and he's happy with it.
Lonnie Prince's props seem to be here and there when it comes to
specific engines (and pitch they are supposed to be) and in the early
days many went back for a repitch before they got it right.

I'm with Curt as well... if I need to buy another prop, it will be a Catto

(although I highly doubt I'll head for prop #5 !)

Wayne O'Shea

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne" <Wayne@barrett-architect.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Cc: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 6:17 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Warp drive or Prince prop

Sorry, the engine is a O-320, 150 hp.

Regards

Wayne Barrett

Barrett Architect Inc.
708 Gerrard Street East
Toronto, Ontario, M4M 1Y3

Tel 416 469 8000
Fax 416 469 8056
Cel 416 587 1415

On 2011-12-02, at 5:36 PM, "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
wrote:

You won't be happy with the 4 blade Warp.. and it's just ugly to boot!
You'll get more help on the Prince prop if you tell everyone what
the engine and HP is...

The Clamars's are a great float and Clair will shoot me for saying it..