The Murphy Builders Site

Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:34 pm**

I had that strip and when the aircraft hit a tree the other day it did help
to keep the panel stronger and i got out undamaged even though the aircraft
was written off have fun,ian

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Ben
Ransom
Sent: Tuesday, 8 November 2011 2:39 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] panel: throttle/mixture mount

Any suggestions for throttle/mixture mounts on the Rebel? There's one
picture of someone's added ~2" strip below the panel and mention of that in
the "Ontario mods". Seems like an unnecessary add-on and there's room to
mount these straight into the standard panel. I've not seen or remembered
enough examples though. Any recommendations on this and/or adding a center
extension downward?

Thanks!
-Ben /496R

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:34 pm**

Hi Ben !

Add the 2" channel at the bottom of the panel ! It's a very old
Ontario Mod - and virtually ESSENTIAL, in my view !!

You can bend up a channel, or add a 1/8" thick angle - but it
must be full width, and rivetted to the door posts. It will greatly
stiffen the whole cage section, as well as prevent panel flexing.
Without it - A) there's no room for 2 rows of full-sized instruments
and the throttle, mixture, carb heat, trim switch ... etc. AND
B) The throttle will surge when taxiing on rough ground, no matter
what you do, because of panel flexing. This means the whole
front end is flexing ...

Be sure to bridge the cuts at the angles of the channel/angle
with rivetted aluminum pieces, to tie it together ...

Stiffening the structure this way is easier than adding the
upper V struts that some like to add, and adds useful space.

Personally, I would knock a couple of grand off the value of a
Rebel that didn't have the channel, especially if it had higher time ....
This mod comes right after the FUS-30 doubler in importance ...

......bobp
bobp@prosumers.ca
bobp@pattersys.com
http://www.Pattersys.com
http://www.amway.ca/BobPatterson

De-fenestrate now ! Linux is the answer !

Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender
and do not necessarily reflect the views of any other entities or persons.
Any action taken as a result of the contents of this email is totally the
responsibility of the reader.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/pssignTux.jpg

On Tuesday 08 November 2011 01:39:20 Ben Ransom wrote:

Any suggestions for throttle/mixture mounts on the Rebel? There's one
picture of someone's added ~2" strip below the panel and mention of that
in the "Ontario mods". Seems like an unnecessary add-on and there's room
to mount these straight into the standard panel. I've not seen or
remembered enough examples though. Any recommendations on this and/or
adding a center extension downward?

Thanks!
-Ben /496R

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:34 pm**

Although I agree with the desirability of beefing up the panel per Bob's
comments, I didn't want a 2" high sub-panel all the way across (leg room,
panel maintenance access & stick motion being some concerns there). That
can be strengthened other ways, such as with smaller U-angle stock. On the
other hand, extra space for electrical toggles in larger channel below
would be a plus. Toggles and the labeling scheme for them can take up a
surprising amount of vertical space.

Instead, I have a 14" x 2" throttle bracket under the basic panel, in the
center, which holds the flap switch, throttle, mixture, carb heat and cabin
heat cables, with a space left over for another toggle switch (possible
fuel boost pump) in the future. [http://n254mr.com/node/305] It's great,
and puts the controls at a height level that feels natural & comfortable.
My right hand spends a lot of time on that throttle control, and wouldn't
like being as high as the lower panel.

Keep in mind that throttle & mixture cable routing may be a significant
issue depending on the chosen power plant and mount. Having those control
cables down another 2" is a real plus in my case. Smooth routing would be
more difficult if they were any higher. Wherever you put the control
cables, you may want to strengthen the area to resist fore and aft flexing
from the cable motion. Whatever you do for that may impact overall space on
and behind the mounting location.

As for whether there's enough space in the basic 8" panel, that's somewhat
relative, depending on what you (and/or the next owner) will want in the
panel itself. Personally, there would not be room for all those things
mentioned above in the basic panel space, along with avionics and switches
that are important to me. [http://n254mr.com/node/705] Whatever avionics
you choose, think ahead to take into account the widths of bevels, brackets
& doublers that you'll need for those.They may reduce the vertical space
you'll have to work with more than you think.

Ron

On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 10:39 PM, Ben Ransom <bransom@ucdavis.edu> wrote:

Any suggestions for throttle/mixture mounts on the Rebel? There's one
picture of someone's added ~2" strip below the panel and mention of that in
the "Ontario mods". Seems like an unnecessary add-on and there's room to
mount these straight into the standard panel. I've not seen or remembered
enough examples though. Any recommendations on this and/or adding a center
extension downward?

Thanks!
-Ben /496R

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:34 pm**

I've got a 2" piece of angle that I had welded to the correct form. I also
install a 2" offset for the throttle and mixture. I'm 6'1" and with the
seat back for my long legs, I had quite a stretch to full throttle. This
offset is perfect. I have no problems with my legs and the 2" angle under
the instrument panel and I get full forward stick. My throttle is rock
solid when I taxi on our not so smooth grass strip. I can send you a
picture if you would like.

Hank Balch
307R

On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Ron Shannon <rshannon@cruzcom.com> wrote:

Although I agree with the desirability of beefing up the panel per Bob's
comments, I didn't want a 2" high sub-panel all the way across (leg room,
panel maintenance access & stick motion being some concerns there). That
can be strengthened other ways, such as with smaller U-angle stock. On the
other hand, extra space for electrical toggles in larger channel below
would be a plus. Toggles and the labeling scheme for them can take up a
surprising amount of vertical space.

Instead, I have a 14" x 2" throttle bracket under the basic panel, in the
center, which holds the flap switch, throttle, mixture, carb heat and cabin
heat cables, with a space left over for another toggle switch (possible
fuel boost pump) in the future. [http://n254mr.com/node/305] It's great,
and puts the controls at a height level that feels natural & comfortable.
My right hand spends a lot of time on that throttle control, and wouldn't
like being as high as the lower panel.

Keep in mind that throttle & mixture cable routing may be a significant
issue depending on the chosen power plant and mount. Having those control
cables down another 2" is a real plus in my case. Smooth routing would be
more difficult if they were any higher. Wherever you put the control
cables, you may want to strengthen the area to resist fore and aft flexing
from the cable motion. Whatever you do for that may impact overall space on
and behind the mounting location.

As for whether there's enough space in the basic 8" panel, that's somewhat
relative, depending on what you (and/or the next owner) will want in the
panel itself. Personally, there would not be room for all those things
mentioned above in the basic panel space, along with avionics and switches
that are important to me. [http://n254mr.com/node/705] Whatever avionics
you choose, think ahead to take into account the widths of bevels, brackets
& doublers that you'll need for those.They may reduce the vertical space
you'll have to work with more than you think.

Ron

On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 10:39 PM, Ben Ransom <bransom@ucdavis.edu> wrote:

Any suggestions for throttle/mixture mounts on the Rebel? There's one
picture of someone's added ~2" strip below the panel and mention of that
in
the "Ontario mods". Seems like an unnecessary add-on and there's room to
mount these straight into the standard panel. I've not seen or
remembered
enough examples though. Any recommendations on this and/or adding a
center
extension downward?

Thanks!
-Ben /496R

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:34 pm**

Thanks all for the ideas and photos ...it helps a great deal. I'll
definitely add stiffener along the whole base, but hope to limit the added
throttle/mixture/carb-heat/prime to a short extension in the middle.
-Ben

On 11/7/11 10:39 PM, "Ben Ransom" <bransom@ucdavis.edu> wrote:

Any suggestions for throttle/mixture mounts on the Rebel? There's one
picture of someone's added ~2" strip below the panel and mention of that
in the "Ontario mods". Seems like an unnecessary add-on and there's room
to mount these straight into the standard panel. I've not seen or
remembered enough examples though. Any recommendations on this and/or
adding a center extension downward?

Thanks!
-Ben /496R

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:34 pm**

Hi Ben If you lay out where your instruments are going before hand you can see if you have enough room on the panel for your throttle and mixture. Mine is in the panel and I'm glad I did it that way because I mounted my float controls directly underneath. I've never experienced my engine surging on rough fields and I have a hard time believing that it wasn't some other cause. I do think it's a very good idea to add some doublers at the corners of the panel. Mine cracked after a couple hundred hours.
Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Ransom <bransom@ucdavis.edu>
Sender: mike.davis@dcsol.com
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 07:01:21
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com<rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Reply-to: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] panel: throttle/mixture mount

Thanks all for the ideas and photos ...it helps a great deal. I'll
definitely add stiffener along the whole base, but hope to limit the added
throttle/mixture/carb-heat/prime to a short extension in the middle.
-Ben

On 11/7/11 10:39 PM, "Ben Ransom" <bransom@ucdavis.edu> wrote:

Any suggestions for throttle/mixture mounts on the Rebel? There's one
picture of someone's added ~2" strip below the panel and mention of that
in the "Ontario mods". Seems like an unnecessary add-on and there's room
to mount these straight into the standard panel. I've not seen or
remembered enough examples though. Any recommendations on this and/or
adding a center extension downward?

Thanks!
-Ben /496R

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:34 pm**

Hi Ben !

Your call - but a small extension in the middle will not do
anything to strengthen the cage geometry. Stiffening the bottom
of the stock panel is not the same as adding depth, tied into the
door posts. Having the extra channel lower will ... It will make
a big difference on floats or skis, and helps on rough ground too.

I have never had any problem with leg room or stick movement
with that small extension.

......bobp
bobp@prosumers.ca
bobp@pattersys.com
http://www.Pattersys.com
http://www.amway.ca/BobPatterson

De-fenestrate now ! Linux is the answer !

Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender
and do not necessarily reflect the views of any other entities or persons.
Any action taken as a result of the contents of this email is totally the
responsibility of the reader.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/pssignTux.jpg

On Wednesday 09 November 2011 02:01:21 Ben Ransom wrote:

Thanks all for the ideas and photos ...it helps a great deal. I'll
definitely add stiffener along the whole base, but hope to limit the added
throttle/mixture/carb-heat/prime to a short extension in the middle.
-Ben

On 11/7/11 10:39 PM, "Ben Ransom" <bransom@ucdavis.edu> wrote:
Any suggestions for throttle/mixture mounts on the Rebel? There's one
picture of someone's added ~2" strip below the panel and mention of that
in the "Ontario mods". Seems like an unnecessary add-on and there's room
to mount these straight into the standard panel. I've not seen or
remembered enough examples though. Any recommendations on this and/or
adding a center extension downward?

Thanks!
-Ben /496R

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