[rebel-builders] First Report

[Keith Leitch]

Craig,
Thanks for the report. Sounds like you are having a blast with your new toy. Your fuel burn does seem higher that what I have usually heard from guys but then with the power available when you may need it is a nice side benefit. COngrats on constructing such a nice plane. The O-360 was on my possible list of engines for my Rebel....that is is I ever get back to the work bench and get it done.
Keith R661

--- On Thu, 9/22/11, craig walls <snowyriver@ak.net> wrote:


From: craig walls <snowyriver@ak.net>
Subject: [rebel-builders] First Report
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Date: Thursday, September 22, 2011, 1:00 AM


Hi All,

I have almost 15 hrs on the plane now and several people have asked about numbers.

[Jay Yau]

Hi Craig,

I'm still home sick for Alaska, would like to visit Alaska again in 2012 with my newly built airplane.

I got 7 hours on my new plane/new engine now, still breaking in the Engine, the CHT/EGT run hot in Southern California.

My Engine is 0-360 A1A, when run at 25" MP/2500 RPM/mixture full rich @ 4500 feet, the fuel flow exceeds 20 gal/hour, I'm new to this fuel flow gauge, does it sound normal in this configuration? I have Dynon Skyview duel screen EFIS.

So glad you are flying, we are pretty much on the same flight test stage.

Jay Yau
949-878-8153

Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 22:00:52 -0800
From: snowyriver@ak.net
Subject: [rebel-builders] First Report
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com

Hi All,

I have almost 15 hrs on the plane now and several people have asked about numbers. As far as temps, not sure how much good the numbers would do you because it's so cool up here but....I've been flying in the 55-60 degree range. In a long climb (2 min) about 85% power my oil temp was 225 once. I have an oil cooler with a air shut-off and it was closed. Generally the oil temp's been running about 210-215. CHT's are in the mid 300's and they stay there. I can't seem to reduce temps enough to worry about shock cooling during descents. Today I was flying at 90 mph at 3500' and had it leaned to 7.9 gpm with EGTS at 1380ish. If I don't lean, the 0360 drinks lots of fuel! Except for T offs and landings I plan on leaning early and often!

If you noticed, my cowl is modified and has larger air inlets than the stock speed cowl. I haven't really tried anything full performance yet...being cautious and a little nervous. I have seen 1800 fpm with power to spare and I find my self not using full throttle on take offs because it's just not necessary, Probably a bad idea. I have to trim a lot. The electric trim is slow to act and I over trim. Stalls are at 46 mph no flaps, power off and 43 with two notches. I only built it with two notches but I'm planning on adding a third. I haven't put the VG's on yet...I want to see what difference they make once I'm used to the plane as it is.

The fastest I've flown so far is 115 mph. In the pattern I have to reduce rpms to about 1250-1300 to get it to start losing altitude--not the 1500 or so I was used to to. Once it gets to about 55-60 with 2 notches it has a fast sink rate! I've found myself behind the power curve several times during base and final and luckily the 180 horses easily fixes that. Still learning.

It's an incredible feeling flying something I've built. Can't really put it to words. Everyone, keep it up! Craig

BTW, Deb and I were at the Reno air races and near as I can tell from the videos and photos we were sitting approximately 75' from the place where the P51 hit. We were in the stands and had watched every race and decided to leave early that day to beat the crowds. Makes you think!




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[Walter Klatt]

A stock parallel valve 360 should flow at around 16 - 18 gph at full
throttle. I think you need to calibrate your fuel flow gauge if it is
showing 20 gph at only 2500 and 25", and at 4500' Would only expect about 15
gph at those numbers.

Mine flows about 16 gph at 2600 rpm about 500 MSL on climb out. Highest I've
seen is 18 during initial climb and lowering the nose a bit to get the rpm
to 2700.

If your EGTs and CHTs are too hot on climb out, you should check your carb
main jet spec. You will want the 10-4164-1 version. If you have the 10-3878,
or other, you could be running too lean at full throttle.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Jay
Yau
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 2:00 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] First Report


Hi Craig,

I'm still home sick for Alaska, would like to visit Alaska again in 2012
with my newly built airplane.

I got 7 hours on my new plane/new engine now, still breaking in the Engine,
the CHT/EGT run hot in Southern California.

My Engine is 0-360 A1A, when run at 25" MP/2500 RPM/mixture full rich @
4500 feet, the fuel flow exceeds 20 gal/hour, I'm new to this fuel flow
gauge, does it sound normal in this configuration? I have Dynon Skyview duel
screen EFIS.

So glad you are flying, we are pretty much on the same flight test stage.

Jay Yau
949-878-8153

Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 22:00:52 -0800
From: snowyriver@ak.net
Subject: [rebel-builders] First Report
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com

Hi All,

I have almost 15 hrs on the plane now and several people have asked about

numbers. As far as temps, not sure how much good the numbers would do you
because it's so cool up here but....I've been flying in the 55-60 degree
range. In a long climb (2 min) about 85% power my oil temp was 225 once. I
have an oil cooler with a air shut-off and it was closed. Generally the oil
temp's been running about 210-215. CHT's are in the mid 300's and they stay
there. I can't seem to reduce temps enough to worry about shock cooling
during descents. Today I was flying at 90 mph at 3500' and had it leaned to
7.9 gpm with EGTS at 1380ish. If I don't lean, the 0360 drinks lots of fuel!
Except for T offs and landings I plan on leaning early and often!

If you noticed, my cowl is modified and has larger air inlets than the

stock speed cowl. I haven't really tried anything full performance
yet...being cautious and a little nervous. I have seen 1800 fpm with power
to spare and I find my self not using full throttle on take offs because
it's just not necessary, Probably a bad idea. I have to trim a lot. The
electric trim is slow to act and I over trim. Stalls are at 46 mph no flaps,
power off and 43 with two notches. I only built it with two notches but I'm
planning on adding a third. I haven't put the VG's on yet...I want to see
what difference they make once I'm used to the plane as it is.

The fastest I've flown so far is 115 mph. In the pattern I have to reduce

rpms to about 1250-1300 to get it to start losing altitude--not the 1500 or
so I was used to to. Once it gets to about 55-60 with 2 notches it has a
fast sink rate! I've found myself behind the power curve several times
during base and final and luckily the 180 horses easily fixes that. Still
learning.

It's an incredible feeling flying something I've built. Can't really put

it to words. Everyone, keep it up! Craig

BTW, Deb and I were at the Reno air races and near as I can tell from the

videos and photos we were sitting approximately 75' from the place where the
P51 hit. We were in the stands and had watched every race and decided to
leave early that day to beat the crowds. Makes you think!

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[Jay Yau]

Walter,

I got the 10-4164-1 carb.

Jay

From: Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] First Report
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 14:48:38 -0700

A stock parallel valve 360 should flow at around 16 - 18 gph at full
throttle. I think you need to calibrate your fuel flow gauge if it is
showing 20 gph at only 2500 and 25", and at 4500' Would only expect about 15
gph at those numbers.

Mine flows about 16 gph at 2600 rpm about 500 MSL on climb out. Highest I've
seen is 18 during initial climb and lowering the nose a bit to get the rpm
to 2700.

If your EGTs and CHTs are too hot on climb out, you should check your carb
main jet spec. You will want the 10-4164-1 version. If you have the 10-3878,
or other, you could be running too lean at full throttle.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Jay
Yau
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 2:00 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] First Report


Hi Craig,

I'm still home sick for Alaska, would like to visit Alaska again in 2012
with my newly built airplane.

I got 7 hours on my new plane/new engine now, still breaking in the Engine,
the CHT/EGT run hot in Southern California.

My Engine is 0-360 A1A, when run at 25" MP/2500 RPM/mixture full rich @
4500 feet, the fuel flow exceeds 20 gal/hour, I'm new to this fuel flow
gauge, does it sound normal in this configuration? I have Dynon Skyview duel
screen EFIS.

So glad you are flying, we are pretty much on the same flight test stage.

Jay Yau
949-878-8153

Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 22:00:52 -0800
From: snowyriver@ak.net
Subject: [rebel-builders] First Report
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com

Hi All,

I have almost 15 hrs on the plane now and several people have asked about

numbers. As far as temps, not sure how much good the numbers would do you
because it's so cool up here but....I've been flying in the 55-60 degree
range. In a long climb (2 min) about 85% power my oil temp was 225 once. I
have an oil cooler with a air shut-off and it was closed. Generally the oil
temp's been running about 210-215. CHT's are in the mid 300's and they stay
there. I can't seem to reduce temps enough to worry about shock cooling
during descents. Today I was flying at 90 mph at 3500' and had it leaned to
7.9 gpm with EGTS at 1380ish. If I don't lean, the 0360 drinks lots of fuel!
Except for T offs and landings I plan on leaning early and often!

If you noticed, my cowl is modified and has larger air inlets than the

stock speed cowl. I haven't really tried anything full performance
yet...being cautious and a little nervous. I have seen 1800 fpm with power
to spare and I find my self not using full throttle on take offs because
it's just not necessary, Probably a bad idea. I have to trim a lot. The
electric trim is slow to act and I over trim. Stalls are at 46 mph no flaps,
power off and 43 with two notches. I only built it with two notches but I'm
planning on adding a third. I haven't put the VG's on yet...I want to see
what difference they make once I'm used to the plane as it is.

The fastest I've flown so far is 115 mph. In the pattern I have to reduce

rpms to about 1250-1300 to get it to start losing altitude--not the 1500 or
so I was used to to. Once it gets to about 55-60 with 2 notches it has a
fast sink rate! I've found myself behind the power curve several times
during base and final and luckily the 180 horses easily fixes that. Still
learning.

It's an incredible feeling flying something I've built. Can't really put

it to words. Everyone, keep it up! Craig

BTW, Deb and I were at the Reno air races and near as I can tell from the

videos and photos we were sitting approximately 75' from the place where the
P51 hit. We were in the stands and had watched every race and decided to
leave early that day to beat the crowds. Makes you think!

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[Jay Yau]

Walter,

Thank you so much for the test data, I have flown another hour this afternoon, re-confirmed the 25"x 2500RPM @ full rich, it's still exceeding 20 gph, I will check the Dynon fuel flow setting (if it can be calibrated) and verify the carb main jet version.

I also have another problem, the fuel leaked out from the bottom of the carb, this is the picture I took (see attachment), is that something normal for brand new engine? now I got 8.5 hours on the brand new engine.

Jay

From: Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] First Report
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 14:48:38 -0700

A stock parallel valve 360 should flow at around 16 - 18 gph at full
throttle. I think you need to calibrate your fuel flow gauge if it is
showing 20 gph at only 2500 and 25", and at 4500' Would only expect about 15
gph at those numbers.

Mine flows about 16 gph at 2600 rpm about 500 MSL on climb out. Highest I've
seen is 18 during initial climb and lowering the nose a bit to get the rpm
to 2700.

If your EGTs and CHTs are too hot on climb out, you should check your carb
main jet spec. You will want the 10-4164-1 version. If you have the 10-3878,
or other, you could be running too lean at full throttle.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Jay
Yau
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 2:00 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] First Report


Hi Craig,

I'm still home sick for Alaska, would like to visit Alaska again in 2012
with my newly built airplane.

I got 7 hours on my new plane/new engine now, still breaking in the Engine,
the CHT/EGT run hot in Southern California.

My Engine is 0-360 A1A, when run at 25" MP/2500 RPM/mixture full rich @
4500 feet, the fuel flow exceeds 20 gal/hour, I'm new to this fuel flow
gauge, does it sound normal in this configuration? I have Dynon Skyview duel
screen EFIS.

So glad you are flying, we are pretty much on the same flight test stage.

Jay Yau
949-878-8153

Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 22:00:52 -0800
From: snowyriver@ak.net
Subject: [rebel-builders] First Report
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com

Hi All,

I have almost 15 hrs on the plane now and several people have asked about

numbers. As far as temps, not sure how much good the numbers would do you
because it's so cool up here but....I've been flying in the 55-60 degree
range. In a long climb (2 min) about 85% power my oil temp was 225 once. I
have an oil cooler with a air shut-off and it was closed. Generally the oil
temp's been running about 210-215. CHT's are in the mid 300's and they stay
there. I can't seem to reduce temps enough to worry about shock cooling
during descents. Today I was flying at 90 mph at 3500' and had it leaned to
7.9 gpm with EGTS at 1380ish. If I don't lean, the 0360 drinks lots of fuel!
Except for T offs and landings I plan on leaning early and often!

If you noticed, my cowl is modified and has larger air inlets than the

stock speed cowl. I haven't really tried anything full performance
yet...being cautious and a little nervous. I have seen 1800 fpm with power
to spare and I find my self not using full throttle on take offs because
it's just not necessary, Probably a bad idea. I have to trim a lot. The
electric trim is slow to act and I over trim. Stalls are at 46 mph no flaps,
power off and 43 with two notches. I only built it with two notches but I'm
planning on adding a third. I haven't put the VG's on yet...I want to see
what difference they make once I'm used to the plane as it is.

The fastest I've flown so far is 115 mph. In the pattern I have to reduce

rpms to about 1250-1300 to get it to start losing altitude--not the 1500 or
so I was used to to. Once it gets to about 55-60 with 2 notches it has a
fast sink rate! I've found myself behind the power curve several times
during base and final and luckily the 180 horses easily fixes that. Still
learning.

It's an incredible feeling flying something I've built. Can't really put

it to words. Everyone, keep it up! Craig

BTW, Deb and I were at the Reno air races and near as I can tell from the

videos and photos we were sitting approximately 75' from the place where the
P51 hit. We were in the stands and had watched every race and decided to
leave early that day to beat the crowds. Makes you think!

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[Walter Klatt]

I don't see any attachment. You would have to send private email for that.
But if you are leaking at the carb, that is not good. If it is a new engine
and carb, would have to assume they have all the latest AD's applied with
the float, etc.

Are you sure your primer is properly closed and seated, and not leaking fuel
into the cylinders and back down the intakes?

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Jay
Yau
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 10:36 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] First Report


Walter,

Thank you so much for the test data, I have flown another hour this
afternoon, re-confirmed the 25"x 2500RPM @ full rich, it's still exceeding
20 gph, I will check the Dynon fuel flow setting (if it can be calibrated)
and verify the carb main jet version.


I also have another problem, the fuel leaked out from the bottom of the
carb, this is the picture I took (see attachment), is that something normal
for brand new engine? now I got 8.5 hours on the brand new engine.

Jay

From: Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] First Report
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 14:48:38 -0700

A stock parallel valve 360 should flow at around 16 - 18 gph at full
throttle. I think you need to calibrate your fuel flow gauge if it is
showing 20 gph at only 2500 and 25", and at 4500' Would only expect about

15

gph at those numbers.

Mine flows about 16 gph at 2600 rpm about 500 MSL on climb out. Highest

I've

seen is 18 during initial climb and lowering the nose a bit to get the rpm
to 2700.

If your EGTs and CHTs are too hot on climb out, you should check your carb
main jet spec. You will want the 10-4164-1 version. If you have the

10-3878,

or other, you could be running too lean at full throttle.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Jay
Yau
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 2:00 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] First Report


Hi Craig,

I'm still home sick for Alaska, would like to visit Alaska again in 2012
with my newly built airplane.

I got 7 hours on my new plane/new engine now, still breaking in the

Engine,

the CHT/EGT run hot in Southern California.

My Engine is 0-360 A1A, when run at 25" MP/2500 RPM/mixture full rich @
4500 feet, the fuel flow exceeds 20 gal/hour, I'm new to this fuel flow
gauge, does it sound normal in this configuration? I have Dynon Skyview

duel

screen EFIS.

So glad you are flying, we are pretty much on the same flight test stage.

Jay Yau
949-878-8153

Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 22:00:52 -0800
From: snowyriver@ak.net
Subject: [rebel-builders] First Report
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com

Hi All,

I have almost 15 hrs on the plane now and several people have asked

about

numbers. As far as temps, not sure how much good the numbers would do you
because it's so cool up here but....I've been flying in the 55-60 degree
range. In a long climb (2 min) about 85% power my oil temp was 225 once. I
have an oil cooler with a air shut-off and it was closed. Generally the

oil

temp's been running about 210-215. CHT's are in the mid 300's and they

stay

there. I can't seem to reduce temps enough to worry about shock cooling
during descents. Today I was flying at 90 mph at 3500' and had it leaned

to

7.9 gpm with EGTS at 1380ish. If I don't lean, the 0360 drinks lots of

fuel!

Except for T offs and landings I plan on leaning early and often!

If you noticed, my cowl is modified and has larger air inlets than the

stock speed cowl. I haven't really tried anything full performance
yet...being cautious and a little nervous. I have seen 1800 fpm with power
to spare and I find my self not using full throttle on take offs because
it's just not necessary, Probably a bad idea. I have to trim a lot. The
electric trim is slow to act and I over trim. Stalls are at 46 mph no

flaps,

power off and 43 with two notches. I only built it with two notches but

I'm

planning on adding a third. I haven't put the VG's on yet...I want to see
what difference they make once I'm used to the plane as it is.

The fastest I've flown so far is 115 mph. In the pattern I have to

reduce

rpms to about 1250-1300 to get it to start losing altitude--not the 1500

or

so I was used to to. Once it gets to about 55-60 with 2 notches it has a
fast sink rate! I've found myself behind the power curve several times
during base and final and luckily the 180 horses easily fixes that. Still
learning.

It's an incredible feeling flying something I've built. Can't really put

it to words. Everyone, keep it up! Craig

BTW, Deb and I were at the Reno air races and near as I can tell from

the

videos and photos we were sitting approximately 75' from the place where

the

P51 hit. We were in the stands and had watched every race and decided to
leave early that day to beat the crowds. Makes you think!

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[elist]

As Walter notes, this could happen with a primer leak. It did for me. All
new parts, engine, primer, etc. Pulled carb apart to check float. Minor
adjustment, still leaking. Yep, primer leak was letting fuel dribble by, out
carb and onto hangar floor. But not noticeable under power and flight.

Eric N645E

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Walter
Klatt
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 8:29 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] First Report

I don't see any attachment. You would have to send private email for that.
But if you are leaking at the carb, that is not good. If it is a new engine
and carb, would have to assume they have all the latest AD's applied with
the float, etc.

Are you sure your primer is properly closed and seated, and not leaking fuel
into the cylinders and back down the intakes?

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Jay
Yau
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 10:36 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] First Report


Walter,

Thank you so much for the test data, I have flown another hour this
afternoon, re-confirmed the 25"x 2500RPM @ full rich, it's still exceeding
20 gph, I will check the Dynon fuel flow setting (if it can be calibrated)
and verify the carb main jet version.


I also have another problem, the fuel leaked out from the bottom of the
carb, this is the picture I took (see attachment), is that something normal
for brand new engine? now I got 8.5 hours on the brand new engine.

Jay

From: Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] First Report
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 14:48:38 -0700

A stock parallel valve 360 should flow at around 16 - 18 gph at full
throttle. I think you need to calibrate your fuel flow gauge if it is
showing 20 gph at only 2500 and 25", and at 4500' Would only expect about

15

gph at those numbers.

Mine flows about 16 gph at 2600 rpm about 500 MSL on climb out. Highest

I've

seen is 18 during initial climb and lowering the nose a bit to get the rpm
to 2700.

If your EGTs and CHTs are too hot on climb out, you should check your carb
main jet spec. You will want the 10-4164-1 version. If you have the

10-3878,

or other, you could be running too lean at full throttle.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Jay
Yau
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 2:00 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] First Report


Hi Craig,

I'm still home sick for Alaska, would like to visit Alaska again in 2012
with my newly built airplane.

I got 7 hours on my new plane/new engine now, still breaking in the

Engine,

the CHT/EGT run hot in Southern California.

My Engine is 0-360 A1A, when run at 25" MP/2500 RPM/mixture full rich @
4500 feet, the fuel flow exceeds 20 gal/hour, I'm new to this fuel flow
gauge, does it sound normal in this configuration? I have Dynon Skyview

duel

screen EFIS.

So glad you are flying, we are pretty much on the same flight test stage.

Jay Yau
949-878-8153

Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2011 22:00:52 -0800
From: snowyriver@ak.net
Subject: [rebel-builders] First Report
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com

Hi All,

I have almost 15 hrs on the plane now and several people have asked

about

numbers. As far as temps, not sure how much good the numbers would do you
because it's so cool up here but....I've been flying in the 55-60 degree
range. In a long climb (2 min) about 85% power my oil temp was 225 once. I
have an oil cooler with a air shut-off and it was closed. Generally the

oil

temp's been running about 210-215. CHT's are in the mid 300's and they

stay

there. I can't seem to reduce temps enough to worry about shock cooling
during descents. Today I was flying at 90 mph at 3500' and had it leaned

to

7.9 gpm with EGTS at 1380ish. If I don't lean, the 0360 drinks lots of

fuel!

Except for T offs and landings I plan on leaning early and often!

If you noticed, my cowl is modified and has larger air inlets than the

stock speed cowl. I haven't really tried anything full performance
yet...being cautious and a little nervous. I have seen 1800 fpm with power
to spare and I find my self not using full throttle on take offs because
it's just not necessary, Probably a bad idea. I have to trim a lot. The
electric trim is slow to act and I over trim. Stalls are at 46 mph no

flaps,

power off and 43 with two notches. I only built it with two notches but

I'm

planning on adding a third. I haven't put the VG's on yet...I want to see
what difference they make once I'm used to the plane as it is.

The fastest I've flown so far is 115 mph. In the pattern I have to

reduce

rpms to about 1250-1300 to get it to start losing altitude--not the 1500

or

so I was used to to. Once it gets to about 55-60 with 2 notches it has a
fast sink rate! I've found myself behind the power curve several times
during base and final and luckily the 180 horses easily fixes that. Still
learning.

It's an incredible feeling flying something I've built. Can't really put

it to words. Everyone, keep it up! Craig

BTW, Deb and I were at the Reno air races and near as I can tell from

the

videos and photos we were sitting approximately 75' from the place where

the

P51 hit. We were in the stands and had watched every race and decided to
leave early that day to beat the crowds. Makes you think!

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