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[rebel-builders] Mogas in 160 HP

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:55 pm
by mike jones
Perhaps I should mention that this is just a engine test at my house, plane
is not done for flying but I want to run it once and a while besides the
manual lubrication I do with it, so perhaps autogas would be okay for short
periods

Mike#007

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Keith
Leitch
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 6:33 PM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders
Subject: [rebel-builders] Mogas in 160 HP

Mike,

I realize all the other guys here are saying 'no' but I disagree. I know
there are several O-320 and O-360 engines that are listed under
different

[rebel-builders] Mogas in 160 HP

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:55 pm
by David Jackson
Avoid ethanol at all costs. It can have adverse effects on fuel systems not designed for it. As long as the octane rating of the fuel meets the requirements of the engine, I would not hesitate to use (non-ethanol) auto gas.

Sent from my awesome iPhone4

On 2011-09-03, at 12:37 PM, "mike jones" <mfjrebel007r@cogeco.ca> wrote:
Perhaps I should mention that this is just a engine test at my house, plane
is not done for flying but I want to run it once and a while besides the
manual lubrication I do with it, so perhaps autogas would be okay for short
periods

Mike#007

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Keith
Leitch
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 6:33 PM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders
Subject: [rebel-builders] Mogas in 160 HP

Mike,

I realize all the other guys here are saying 'no' but I disagree. I know
there are several O-320 and O-360 engines that are listed under
different 'autogas' STC's, although the higher compression engines are
required to burn 91 octane non-ethanol. Here is their site with your
engine listed s I have stated:
http://www.autofuelstc.com/autofuelstc/ ... gines.html

Keith 661



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[rebel-builders] Mogas in 160 HP

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:55 pm
by Ken
Agreed for ground runs. However I have seem homebuilts with fuel systems
that are obviously prone to vapour lock. Lines
routed close to exhaust systems, lines running uphill from a tank, small
diameter tubing, etc. Those would be ill advised to run mogas.

I've seen ethanol separate out and cause immediate engine stoppage as
well as long term fuel system deterioration.

Mike I thought you had a rebuilt engine?? If so read up on breaking it
in because you definitely would not want to run that at low power before
it flies. Many folks also still like to run avgas for a few hours after
replacing cylinders or valves.

Ken

On 04/09/2011 10:01 AM, David Jackson wrote:
Avoid ethanol at all costs. It can have adverse effects on fuel
systems not designed for it. As long as the octane rating of the fuel
meets the requirements of the engine, I would not hesitate to use
(non-ethanol) auto gas.

Sent from my awesome iPhone4

On 2011-09-03, at 12:37 PM, "mike jones"<mfjrebel007r@cogeco.ca>
wrote:
Perhaps I should mention that this is just a engine test at my
house, plane is not done for flying but I want to run it once and a
while besides the manual lubrication I do with it, so perhaps
autogas would be okay for short periods

Mike#007

-----Original Message----- From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Keith Leitch Sent:
Friday, September 02, 2011 6:33 PM To: Murphy Rebel Builders
Subject: [rebel-builders] Mogas in 160 HP

Mike,

I realize all the other guys here are saying 'no' but I disagree. I
know there are several O-320 and O-360 engines that are listed
under different 'autogas' STC's, although the higher compression
engines are required to burn 91 octane non-ethanol. Here is their
site with your engine listed s I have stated:
http://www.autofuelstc.com/autofuelstc/ ... gines.html

Keith 661


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[rebel-builders] Mogas in 160 HP

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:55 pm
by mike jones
All good advice as usual guys, and ken the engine is already broken in for 8
hrs, just need to do some test as there is not much left to do but fly it

Cheers

#007

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Ken
Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2011 10:20 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Mogas in 160 HP

Agreed for ground runs. However I have seem homebuilts with fuel systems
that are obviously prone to vapour lock. Lines
routed close to exhaust systems, lines running uphill from a tank, small
diameter tubing, etc. Those would be ill advised to run mogas.

I've seen ethanol separate out and cause immediate engine stoppage as
well as long term fuel system deterioration.

Mike I thought you had a rebuilt engine?? If so read up on breaking it
in because you definitely would not want to run that at low power before
it flies. Many folks also still like to run avgas for a few hours after
replacing cylinders or valves.

Ken

On 04/09/2011 10:01 AM, David Jackson wrote:
Avoid ethanol at all costs. It can have adverse effects on fuel
systems not designed for it. As long as the octane rating of the fuel
meets the requirements of the engine, I would not hesitate to use
(non-ethanol) auto gas.

Sent from my awesome iPhone4

On 2011-09-03, at 12:37 PM, "mike jones"<mfjrebel007r@cogeco.ca>
wrote:
Perhaps I should mention that this is just a engine test at my
house, plane is not done for flying but I want to run it once and a
while besides the manual lubrication I do with it, so perhaps
autogas would be okay for short periods

Mike#007

-----Original Message----- From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Keith Leitch Sent:
Friday, September 02, 2011 6:33 PM To: Murphy Rebel Builders
Subject: [rebel-builders] Mogas in 160 HP

Mike,

I realize all the other guys here are saying 'no' but I disagree. I
know there are several O-320 and O-360 engines that are listed
under different 'autogas' STC's, although the higher compression
engines are required to burn 91 octane non-ethanol. Here is their
site with your engine listed s I have stated:
http://www.autofuelstc.com/autofuelstc/ ... gines.html

Keith 661


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[rebel-builders] Mogas in 160 hp

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:55 pm
by tjhickey
I have a CH-300 with over 1900 hours on it. I have the Lyc O-320, 150 HP. I
have run over 11,000 gallons of mogas through it. I now check every batch I
buy to insure that there is no ethanol in it. I have been told that the
requirement to post on the pump weather or not the fuel contains ethanol is
no longer in effect. So you must check it yourself. I do, and have never
found ethanol in the fuel. I understand that some states require that all
fuel sold in the state be blended. (Missouri). So you must check.
I buy the standard grade fuel, I think they list it as 89 octane, and it
seems to work fine.
HOWEVER: early on, one time, I did have symptoms of vapor lock. To counter
that I did the following:
Installed a blast tube to blow fresh air into a shroud that I built and
installed around the mechanical fuel pump:
I insulated all fuel lines ahead of the firewall.
I installed a small heat shield over the gascolator bowl to shield it from
radiant heat from the exhaust pipes.
Since doing the above, I have had no problems with vapor lock.
HOWEVER:
When it is hot out, above 85 or so,I do the following:
I carry Avgas in the right tank, and I use the right tank for takeoff and
landing.
I use mogas in the left tank for cruising.
I also avoid short shutdowns. By this I mean that if I have been flying, and
the engine is warm, I try and let it cool a bit between flights. The fuel
pump will absorb heat from the block when you shut down on a hot day. Thus
raising your risk for vapor lock.
My experience has been that if you keep the fuel as cool as possible, you
will be ok.
But don't just take my word for it.
Tim Hickey
N171TL

Rebel 808

-----Original Message-----
From: Ralph Baker
Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2011 1:43 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] Mogas in 160 hp

Ken is correct in his comments on the total fuel system. When a certified
aircraft is STC'd for mogas there is an extensive test regimen on the entire
fuel system to ensure suitability. There was gentleman who wrote for GA
news who had 30 years experience with aviation fuel at Shell. His comment
at S&F one year was that if a new/rebuilt engine were run 300 hours on 100LL
it could then be run to TBO on quality, no alchohol, auto gas of sufficient
octane.
Ralph Baker



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