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Time in Type

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Time in Type

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:40 pm
by Charles Bailey
Ralph,

You might try AIG (aviation insurance group) 1-800-825-2828, A littte high
priced, but I had first flight coverage, with low TT time.

Chuck
176R N225pc
From: "Ralph Baker" <rbaker@sumter.net>
Reply-To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com> (Murphy Rebel Builders List)
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Time in Type
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 08:19:10 -0500

We are working like mad bees to finish Elite serial 611E before July. A
friendly chat with Avemco (my insurer) exposed an interesting situation.
They insist on 10 hours of dual. No problem there but the FAA insists on
minimum of 25 hours of fly off solo. What that equates to is that to be
strictly legal we would have to have to have an acceptable (to Avemco)
pilot fly off the 25 hours and only then could we begin our dual. They did
say that some time in type would let them take another look at what they
would require.

Sooo.... Are ther any flying taildragger Rebel owners within a reasonable
travel distance of Sumter (near Columbia) South Carolina who would "share
expenses" for some Rebel hours? I am taildragger endorsed but
relativelylow time. Would prefer to fly with the owner to pick up all the
tips I can.
Thanks,
Ralph Baker
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Time in Type

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:40 pm
by Ralph Baker
We are working like mad bees to finish Elite serial 611E before July. A
friendly chat with Avemco (my insurer) exposed an interesting situation.
They insist on 10 hours of dual. No problem there but the FAA insists on
minimum of 25 hours of fly off solo. What that equates to is that to be
strictly legal we would have to have to have an acceptable (to Avemco)
pilot fly off the 25 hours and only then could we begin our dual. They did
say that some time in type would let them take another look at what they
would require.

Sooo.... Are ther any flying taildragger Rebel owners within a reasonable
travel distance of Sumter (near Columbia) South Carolina who would "share
expenses" for some Rebel hours? I am taildragger endorsed but
relativelylow time. Would prefer to fly with the owner to pick up all the
tips I can.
Thanks,
Ralph Baker
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Time in Type

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:40 pm
by LisaFly99
In a message dated 2/9/01 7:24:42 AM Central Standard Time, rbaker@sumter.net
writes:

They insist on 10 hours of dual. No problem there but the FAA insists on
minimum of 25 hours of fly off solo.


RALPH
I also have Avemco Ins. what they told me was they wanted 10/10 in type or
like.
Like being American champ, Muale or similar HP range and tail dragger
configuration. Min 10 Hr flight time and 10 landings on you're own. You must
be using a certified engine because you only have to fly of 25 experimental
Hr. Which I understood could be done by you're self in the Rebel after you
had a sign off on the 10/10. I had a TD sign off in a J3 and Avemco said no
way they wanted 10/10 in type or LIKE. Or the first 10 Hr I was only insured
on the ground.
Phil&Lisa Smith #460 N414D

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Time in Type

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:40 pm
by Terrence A Sack
It sounds to me that Avemco, my insurer too, has just created a need for
"a necessary crew member" (i.e. instructor)on your 25 hour fly off time.
Why not pursue that avenue?

On Fri, 9 Feb 2001, Ralph Baker wrote:
We are working like mad bees to finish Elite serial 611E before July. A
friendly chat with Avemco (my insurer) exposed an interesting situation.
They insist on 10 hours of dual. No problem there but the FAA insists on
minimum of 25 hours of fly off solo. What that equates to is that to be
strictly legal we would have to have to have an acceptable (to Avemco)
pilot fly off the 25 hours and only then could we begin our dual. They did
say that some time in type would let them take another look at what they
would require.

Sooo.... Are ther any flying taildragger Rebel owners within a reasonable
travel distance of Sumter (near Columbia) South Carolina who would "share
expenses" for some Rebel hours? I am taildragger endorsed but
relativelylow time. Would prefer to fly with the owner to pick up all the
tips I can.
Thanks,
Ralph Baker
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Time in Type

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:40 pm
by LisaFly99
In a message dated 2/10/01 9:22:12 AM Central Standard Time, tasack@gcfn.org
writes:

I am taildragger endorsed but
relativelylow time.
RALPH
I was talking to Tom Hanel, Dave Bangle's partner in Subielyc Inc. And they
insure their Rebel through [ Aircraft & Marine Assurance Agency ] located at
2208 East Evergreen Blvd. Vancouver , WA 98661 phone# 800-466-4944
Quote - I think they will be more reasonable in price and easier to work with.
Phil&Lisa Smith #460 N414D

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Time in Type

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:40 pm
by Wayne G. O'Shea
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your following message has been delivered to the 185 members of
the list murphy-rebel@dcsol.com at 12:53:24 on 10 Feb 2001.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Good "advice" Terrance, but the hard part will be to actually find an
Instructor, these days, that is more experienced in a tail dragger than the
owner (almost impossible in Canada these days)! It would be like when I
bought a C182, 9 or 10 years ago, and I had never flown a Constant Speed
prop. Avemco (there they are again and check out your policy, as they used
to take your plane from you when any damage exceeded 70% of value and cut
you a check for your hull coverage!) made me fly with a Certified Instructor
for 10 hours, before my insurance would cover me. They were not concerned
about the aircraft "type", just the fact that it didn't have a fixed pitch
propellor. The CFI that "road" with me (and never touched the controls), and
got paid almost $500, thanked ME for teaching him how to fly a Constant
Speed Prop'd aircraft!!!!

You sure don't want to be "teaching" a tri-cycle gear Instructor on how to
fly your Rebel for 25 hours (while you are still sorting it out yourself),
just to satisfy a stubborn insurer, as you plane is going to end up broken
(badly)!

I think the dilemma that Ralph is looking at, is his understanding that the
FAA wants 25 hours SOLO by someone with time in EXACT type (ie: a high time
Rebel pilot). In reality, I think the FAA allows another "pilot" on board
during the shake down period (just no passengers that don't have the license
required for type of aircraft flown). Check that out with the FAA Ralph!

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca


----- Original Message -----
From: "Terrence A Sack" <tasack@gcfn.org>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: Time in Type

It sounds to me that Avemco, my insurer too, has just created a need for
"a necessary crew member" (i.e. instructor)on your 25 hour fly off time.
Why not pursue that avenue?

On Fri, 9 Feb 2001, Ralph Baker wrote:
We are working like mad bees to finish Elite serial 611E before July. A
friendly chat with Avemco (my insurer) exposed an interesting situation.
They insist on 10 hours of dual. No problem there but the FAA insists
on
minimum of 25 hours of fly off solo. What that equates to is that to be
strictly legal we would have to have to have an acceptable (to Avemco)
pilot fly off the 25 hours and only then could we begin our dual. They
did
say that some time in type would let them take another look at what they
would require.

Sooo.... Are ther any flying taildragger Rebel owners within a
reasonable
travel distance of Sumter (near Columbia) South Carolina who would
"share
expenses" for some Rebel hours? I am taildragger endorsed but
relativelylow time. Would prefer to fly with the owner to pick up all
the
tips I can.
Thanks,
Ralph Baker
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Time in Type

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:40 pm
by LisaFly99
In a message dated 2/10/01 11:53:57 AM Central Standard Time,
oifa@irishfield.on.ca writes:

I think the FAA allows another "pilot" on board
during the shake down period (just no passengers that don't have the license
required for type of aircraft flown). Check that out with the FAA Ralph!


Wayne- Ralph
The way the inspector explained it to me was as long as the other person in
the plane
was there to take data or help with instructions {CFI} and could prove it,
data sheet with temps, air speeds ect. ect. OR a {CFI} certificate all was OK
in their eyes.
But different inspectors have different perspectives of every thing. So a
call to you're local FAA office is should satisfy things.
Phil&Lisa Smith #460 N414D

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Time in Type

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:40 pm
by Bob Patterson
Sorry, guys !! STILL having problems with my email sender !

------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 19:37:37
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com> (Murphy Rebel Builders List)
From: Bob Patterson <crs1188@inforamp.net>
Subject: Re: Time in Type


Hi Ralph !

You may have a MUCH bigger problem than you think, IF Avemco
are going to be really big jerks about this .....

If they want a pilot with over 25 hours experience in an
ELITE - there are only about 4 or 5 of us IN THE WORLD (!), as there
are only TWO Elites flying !! The Elite DOES NOT fly like a
Rebel - there are enough differences to make for problems in the
early flights, when you can be distracted by engine over-temps, etc. !

I would STRONGLY recommend trying ANYONE else for insurance !!

.......bobp

---------------------------------orig.---------------------------------
At 10:19 AM 2/10/01 -0500, you wrote:
It sounds to me that Avemco, my insurer too, has just created a need for
"a necessary crew member" (i.e. instructor)on your 25 hour fly off time.
Why not pursue that avenue?

On Fri, 9 Feb 2001, Ralph Baker wrote:
We are working like mad bees to finish Elite serial 611E before July. A
friendly chat with Avemco (my insurer) exposed an interesting situation.
They insist on 10 hours of dual. No problem there but the FAA insists on
minimum of 25 hours of fly off solo. What that equates to is that to be
strictly legal we would have to have to have an acceptable (to Avemco)
pilot fly off the 25 hours and only then could we begin our dual. They did
say that some time in type would let them take another look at what they
would require.

Sooo.... Are ther any flying taildragger Rebel owners within a reasonable
travel distance of Sumter (near Columbia) South Carolina who would "share
expenses" for some Rebel hours? I am taildragger endorsed but
relativelylow time. Would prefer to fly with the owner to pick up all the
tips I can.
Thanks,
Ralph Baker
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Time in Type

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:40 pm
by Bob Patterson
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 19:48:50
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com> (Murphy Rebel Builders List)
From: Bob Patterson <crs1188@inforamp.net>
Subject: Re: Time in Type


Good point, Wayne !

I had the same problem (as will everyone else in Canada) with
my Amphib floats. If I had gone to STRAIGHT floats, all I needed was
a float rating, meaning 6 or 7 hours dual with an instructor OR a
commercial-licenced float-rated pilot. BUT - because the insurance
companies have experienced an 80 % (!!!!) loss ratio on Amphibs,
(80% of them have been landed gear-down on water, and flipped !)
they insist on a minimum of 25 hours dual (which they WILL insure),
BEFORE you can get ANY kind of insurance, EVEN liability !!

ALL of the companies wanted this, OR MORE !! ANYONE in
Canada would be well advised to fly off their 25 hours on wheels,
then get a straight float rating on some other aircraft, THEN
talk to the insurance company. DO NOT put your newly-finished
Rebel onto Amphibs to do the test flying, UNLESS you ALREADY HAVE
a float rating AND 25 hours of Amphib time !

I hate being forced into a corner like this, but you CAN'T
legally fly an aircraft in Canada without AT LEAST liability insurance
coverage !! ( ^%$^%$^^%%& insurance companies - being driven by
%^$%$#%%&^ lawyers !! )

.....bobp

----------------------------------orig.-----------------------------------
At 12:45 PM 2/10/01 -0500, you wrote:
Good "advice" Terrance, but the hard part will be to actually find an
Instructor, these days, that is more experienced in a tail dragger than the
owner (almost impossible in Canada these days)! It would be like when I
bought a C182, 9 or 10 years ago, and I had never flown a Constant Speed
prop. Avemco (there they are again and check out your policy, as they used
to take your plane from you when any damage exceeded 70% of value and cut
you a check for your hull coverage!) made me fly with a Certified Instructor
for 10 hours, before my insurance would cover me. They were not concerned
about the aircraft "type", just the fact that it didn't have a fixed pitch
propellor. The CFI that "road" with me (and never touched the controls), and
got paid almost $500, thanked ME for teaching him how to fly a Constant
Speed Prop'd aircraft!!!!

You sure don't want to be "teaching" a tri-cycle gear Instructor on how to
fly your Rebel for 25 hours (while you are still sorting it out yourself),
just to satisfy a stubborn insurer, as you plane is going to end up broken
(badly)!

I think the dilemma that Ralph is looking at, is his understanding that the
FAA wants 25 hours SOLO by someone with time in EXACT type (ie: a high time
Rebel pilot). In reality, I think the FAA allows another "pilot" on board
during the shake down period (just no passengers that don't have the license
required for type of aircraft flown). Check that out with the FAA Ralph!

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca


----- Original Message -----
From: "Terrence A Sack" <tasack@gcfn.org>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: Time in Type

It sounds to me that Avemco, my insurer too, has just created a need for
"a necessary crew member" (i.e. instructor)on your 25 hour fly off time.
Why not pursue that avenue?

On Fri, 9 Feb 2001, Ralph Baker wrote:
on
did
reasonable
"share
the
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