The Murphy Builders Site

Don't worry, be happy.

Seriously.

For high wing airplanes like Cessnas, it is typical in the POH to
state that
both fuel tanks should be on (both selected) for takeoff and
landing. This
addresses your issue as well as what happens when you are doing
slips to
land, etc.

Ultimately, you are defining what your "unusable" fuel level is.
Unusable is
not necessarily when the last drop comes out. You can define your
aircraft,
that you have built, as the manufacturer, when either tank does not
provide
the 150% fuel flow or when both on do not provide the 150% fuel
flow. Put it
in your POH, placard only if the inspection requires.

You've done good.

Eric
N645E

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Rebecca Brownell
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 5:28 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] fuel flow testing

hello all
need some info if possible.What would be the maximum angle used for
doing fuel flow tests?The info I have tells me I need 150% of the max
fuel required by the engine.13.5gph =19.75gph required on the flow
test.I can achieve over 20 gph when in flight attitude but I get 17
gph when I raise the nose.I used 4gal in each tank, tested
seperatly.Not sure if I'm using to much of an angle,not enough fuel?
Anything below 3gal in a tank and the flow drops below the 150%
requirement.Help!Didn't know the paperwork would be the hardest
part.Any insights here would be appreciated.
Thanks
Jason
817R



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Thanks for that,so would I call my unuseable fuel 3gal per tank?Any
ideas on the angle?I jacked the front up till the back of the floats
were almost touching the floor.Too much?
On 4-Feb-11, at 9:39 PM, Eric Fogelin wrote:

Don't worry, be happy.

Seriously.

For high wing airplanes like Cessnas, it is typical in the POH to
state that
both fuel tanks should be on (both selected) for takeoff and
landing. This
addresses your issue as well as what happens when you are doing
slips to
land, etc.

Ultimately, you are defining what your "unusable" fuel level is.
Unusable is
not necessarily when the last drop comes out. You can define your
aircraft,
that you have built, as the manufacturer, when either tank does not
provide
the 150% fuel flow or when both on do not provide the 150% fuel
flow. Put it
in your POH, placard only if the inspection requires.

You've done good.

Eric
N645E

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Rebecca Brownell
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 5:28 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] fuel flow testing

hello all
need some info if possible.What would be the maximum angle used for
doing fuel flow tests?The info I have tells me I need 150% of the max
fuel required by the engine.13.5gph =19.75gph required on the flow
test.I can achieve over 20 gph when in flight attitude but I get 17
gph when I raise the nose.I used 4gal in each tank, tested
seperatly.Not sure if I'm using to much of an angle,not enough fuel?
Anything below 3gal in a tank and the flow drops below the 150%
requirement.Help!Didn't know the paperwork would be the hardest
part.Any insights here would be appreciated.
Thanks
Jason
817R



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hello all
need some info if possible.What would be the maximum angle used for
doing fuel flow tests?The info I have tells me I need 150% of the max
fuel required by the engine.13.5gph =19.75gph required on the flow
test.I can achieve over 20 gph when in flight attitude but I get 17
gph when I raise the nose.I used 4gal in each tank, tested
seperatly.Not sure if I'm using to much of an angle,not enough fuel?
Anything below 3gal in a tank and the flow drops below the 150%
requirement.Help!Didn't know the paperwork would be the hardest
part.Any insights here would be appreciated.
Thanks
Jason
817R



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Don't worry, be happy.

Seriously.

For high wing airplanes like Cessnas, it is typical in the POH to state that
both fuel tanks should be on (both selected) for takeoff and landing. This
addresses your issue as well as what happens when you are doing slips to
land, etc.

Ultimately, you are defining what your "unusable" fuel level is. Unusable is
not necessarily when the last drop comes out. You can define your aircraft,
that you have built, as the manufacturer, when either tank does not provide
the 150% fuel flow or when both on do not provide the 150% fuel flow. Put it
in your POH, placard only if the inspection requires.

You've done good.

Eric
N645E

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Rebecca Brownell
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 5:28 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] fuel flow testing

hello all
need some info if possible.What would be the maximum angle used for
doing fuel flow tests?The info I have tells me I need 150% of the max
fuel required by the engine.13.5gph =19.75gph required on the flow
test.I can achieve over 20 gph when in flight attitude but I get 17
gph when I raise the nose.I used 4gal in each tank, tested
seperatly.Not sure if I'm using to much of an angle,not enough fuel?
Anything below 3gal in a tank and the flow drops below the 150%
requirement.Help!Didn't know the paperwork would be the hardest
part.Any insights here would be appreciated.
Thanks
Jason
817R

I think the most important issue is the fuel flow. The test seems to
be
designed to place the aircraft in the worst orientation for that, with
the height of the tank outlet to carb/injector pump being the least.
This is what everyone wants to know in order to be confident that you
will get adequate power with as little fuel remaining as possible. The
test helps prove out, not only that your lines aren't plugged by
debris
but also that there are not too many other forms of friction impeding
the flow.
It does not consider a descent attitude and so has less to do with the
minimum fuel you would consider safe.

Bob.
773E




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I think the most important issue is the fuel flow. The test seems to
be
designed to place the aircraft in the worst orientation for that, with
the height of the tank outlet to carb/injector pump being the least.
This is what everyone wants to know in order to be confident that you
will get adequate power with as little fuel remaining as possible. The
test helps prove out, not only that your lines aren't plugged by
debris
but also that there are not too many other forms of friction impeding
the flow.
It does not consider a descent attitude and so has less to do with the
minimum fuel you would consider safe.

Bob.
773E




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Jason, if you run a fuel flow sensor, you need one would that has a low
pressure drop. If it is a Floscan, make sure it is not the 201B. That one
does not work well with gravity fuel systems.

I run a Floscan 231 in mine, and it has only 0.5 PSI pressure drop, so it
works fine. I was getting around 27 gph IIRC

Walter

FWIW, I use an EI FT-90 "gold cube" flow transducer, which they claim has
a
0.05 PSI pressure drop at 20 GPH.
http://www.buy-ei.com/Pages/Miscellaneo ... _Flow.html (It was inline
for
the gravity only results reported earlier in the thread.)

Ron
N254MR


On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 2:01 PM, Walter Klatt <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca> wrote:

Jason, if you run a fuel flow sensor, you need one would that has a low
pressure drop. If it is a Floscan, make sure it is not the 201B. That one
does not work well with gravity fuel systems.

I run a Floscan 231 in mine, and it has only 0.5 PSI pressure drop, so it
works fine. I was getting around 27 gph IIRC

Walter

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FWIW, I use an EI FT-90 "gold cube" flow transducer, which they
claim has a
0.05 PSI pressure drop at 20 GPH.
http://www.buy-ei.com/Pages/Miscellaneo ... _Flow.html (It was
inline for
the gravity only results reported earlier in the thread.)

Ron
N254MR


On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 2:01 PM, Walter Klatt <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
wrote:

Jason, if you run a fuel flow sensor, you need one would that has a
low
pressure drop. If it is a Floscan, make sure it is not the 201B.
That one
does not work well with gravity fuel systems.

I run a Floscan 231 in mine, and it has only 0.5 PSI pressure drop,
so it
works fine. I was getting around 27 gph IIRC

Walter

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Jason, if you run a fuel flow sensor, you need one would that has a
low
pressure drop. If it is a Floscan, make sure it is not the 201B.
That one
does not work well with gravity fuel systems.

I run a Floscan 231 in mine, and it has only 0.5 PSI pressure drop,
so it
works fine. I was getting around 27 gph IIRC

Walter


-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Rebecca Brownell
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 1:41 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] fuel flow testing

Thanks to all for the replies.Heres what I figured out today in case
it may help somebody like myself in the future(not feeling to smart
lately).The best results I could get when in flight attitude was
21GPH.At an angle of 15deg it was down to15GPH at best.Took out the
flow transducer and got 36GPH in flight attitude and 27GPH at the
seemingly extreme angle of 15deg.Lots of flow.I was assured by
the"experts", that the sender would work.guess not.Luxury item
anyway.Thanks for the inputs.May need some more for this weight and
ballance....................FOR SALE 1 MGL Fuel computer...........
Thanks
Jason
817R
On 5-Feb-11, at 3:05 PM, Bob Palmer wrote:

I think the most important issue is the fuel flow. The test seems to
be
designed to place the aircraft in the worst orientation for that,
with
the height of the tank outlet to carb/injector pump being the least.
This is what everyone wants to know in order to be confident that you
will get adequate power with as little fuel remaining as possible.
The
test helps prove out, not only that your lines aren't plugged by
debris
but also that there are not too many other forms of friction impeding
the flow.
It does not consider a descent attitude and so has less to do with
the
minimum fuel you would consider safe.

Bob.
773E




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Thanks again,it is a floscan 201 A-6.Should trust ones instincts ,I
knew that hole looked small.I'll check out the other senders for
later.I have to get this thing inspected before the end of Feb.Have a
pilot lined up but the insurance co. is frowning on his age a
bit.Can't really fly it till I get a hydraulic pump,the one I had made
isn't going to work.Just another few hundred down the tubes.Any word
on that pump Bob,I guess the end of January didn't work eh.
Thanks again folks.Much appreciated.
Jason
On 5-Feb-11, at 5:12 PM, Ron Shannon wrote:

FWIW, I use an EI FT-90 "gold cube" flow transducer, which they
claim has a
0.05 PSI pressure drop at 20 GPH.
http://www.buy-ei.com/Pages/Miscellaneo ... _Flow.html (It was
inline for
the gravity only results reported earlier in the thread.)

Ron
N254MR


On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 2:01 PM, Walter Klatt <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
wrote:

Jason, if you run a fuel flow sensor, you need one would that has a
low
pressure drop. If it is a Floscan, make sure it is not the 201B.
That one
does not work well with gravity fuel systems.

I run a Floscan 231 in mine, and it has only 0.5 PSI pressure drop,
so it
works fine. I was getting around 27 gph IIRC

Walter

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Hi Ron,

On the FT-90 subj, I was in panic mode after I ordered my Dynon stuff
because I saw your comment on site that stated that the "90" was for grav
feed. Dynon ships with the FT-60 for my eng with a grav feed. I called
both
Dynon and EI and was assured by both that the FT-60 would work correctly
with min pressure drop. Fingers crossed. CW

FWIW, I use an EI FT-90 "gold cube" flow transducer, which they
claim has a
0.05 PSI pressure drop at 20 GPH.
http://www.buy-ei.com/Pages/Miscellaneo ... _Flow.html (It was
inline for
the gravity only results reported earlier in the thread.)

Ron
N254MR


On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 2:01 PM, Walter Klatt <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
wrote:

Jason, if you run a fuel flow sensor, you need one would that has a
low
pressure drop. If it is a Floscan, make sure it is not the 201B.
That one
does not work well with gravity fuel systems.

I run a Floscan 231 in mine, and it has only 0.5 PSI pressure drop,
so it
works fine. I was getting around 27 gph IIRC

Walter

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