The Murphy Builders Site

Tom,

In brief: The manner in which the brakes are mounted to the floor, in
combination with the design of the right-side brake interconnect bar, can,
if the brake mounts are off just slightly, cause an unrecoverable (in
flight/taxi) pedal lock up. Full L or full R rudder coupled with full brake
can cause the brake linkage to go over-center, thereby locking the pedals
up. Several builders have experienced this while taxiing and were able to
stop and, using a tool (e.g. long screwdriver, pry bar) unlock the pedal.

One builder with approx 60 hours on his plane ground-looped it on
landing/takeoff (can't remember which) resulting in totaling the plane and
having the gear leg break off and come up thru the floor severely cutting
the pilot's leg.

This is a SERIOUS issue. If you don't have dual master/slave cylinders or
some other mod then I strongly recommend you take off the right-side brake
interconnect bar. Immediately.

Pictures are available amongst various builders. Perhaps Murphy is working
on a service bulletin? Anyone know?

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
thtonner@mymts.net
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 7:28 PM
To: Murphy Mailing list
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Moose engine choice


Can anyone share a little more information on the right side brake safety
concern. I own a SR2500. this is the first I heard of it and would like to
know what the issue is, how to resolve, etc.

Thanks,
Tom Tonner

From: ted@vafm.org
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Moose engine choice
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 10:15:47 -0700

Hello Rick,

I have 400+ hours on an M-14P Moose operating at 5,000' in the Denver

area.

No problems with gross weight takeoffs even on very warm days. Cruise is
120 mph at 15.5gph. Anyone that advertises faster cruise than that is full
of !@#@%. I've flown side-by-side with another Moose w/ M-14 and confirmed
speed/gph. Climb perf is about 600 to 800 fpm at medium weight on maybe 60
to 70 degree day at my altitude. I've had it up to 16,500' several times
and it's still able to climb.

O-540's are definitely faster by far.

M-14P's are sexy engines. Parts are easy to get and far, FAR less

expensive

than O-540. One can get an M-14P (overhauled one) for low $20k and new one
for $25K+ if you look around. To my knowledge, O-540's are way more
expensive than that.

MAM never released a service bulletin on the huge safety problem of the
right-brake interconnect. Go figure. I just took my interconnect bar
off/out. Other builders have done a variety of mods to enable right-side
brakes (Cessna mod, custom, etc). I don't miss not having right-side

brakes

at all.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Byers
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 5:35 AM
To: Rebel Builders Group
Subject: [rebel-builders] Moose engine choice

Hi All,

I'm new to the email group. I started a Super Rebel a few years ago,
purchased the Moose Upgrade and had some down time from the building
process. Plan to start up again soon and am still undecided on the M14-P

or

O-540 engine.
MAM has told me that I can complete the fuselage and that the Firewall

will

be built the same up to the engine mounting.

I was hoping to get some feedback from anyone flying Moose with O-540's

and

M14's on the pros and cons of each. I've read about the peculiarities of

the

M14 series engines as far as how they differ from the Opposed Engines for
ground operations. I guess what I'm looking for is the actual performance
numbers: Rate of climb, cruise speed, fuel burn. I've seen the advertised
numbers but was just looking for some confirmation.

I currently fly a C-120 out of Bisbee, AZ where the field elevation is

4780

ft. and it's not uncommon to have density altitudes over 8000 ft. in the
warm months. Some days I'm lucky to see 100 fpm climb rate. This is where
I'm wondering about the O-540 with a gross wt airplane.

I've read about a Moose accident where a brake over centered and locked

up.

MAM hasn't responded to my question on that subject yet. Saw some posts by
builders who didn't install the RH side brake mechanism. Is it standard
practice to not install the right seat slave hardware?

Thank you.
Any answers & help is greatly appreciated.

Rick Byers
Hereford, AZ



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hi Tom and Ted

For what it's worth, I managed to fix this permanently with a 1/2" piece
of mild steel about an inch and a half long. No chance of over centering
mine now. I can take a photo if you're interested.

Roger K

On 1/10/2011 7:22 PM, ted@vafm.org wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Tom,
->
-> In brief: The manner in which the brakes are mounted to the floor, in
-> combination with the design of the right-side brake interconnect bar, can,
-> if the brake mounts are off just slightly, cause an unrecoverable (in
-> flight/taxi) pedal lock up. Full L or full R rudder coupled with full brake
-> can cause the brake linkage to go over-center, thereby locking the pedals
-> up. Several builders have experienced this while taxiing and were able to
-> stop and, using a tool (e.g. long screwdriver, pry bar) unlock the pedal.
->
-> One builder with approx 60 hours on his plane ground-looped it on
-> landing/takeoff (can't remember which) resulting in totaling the plane and
-> having the gear leg break off and come up thru the floor severely cutting
-> the pilot's leg.
->
-> This is a SERIOUS issue. If you don't have dual master/slave cylinders or
-> some other mod then I strongly recommend you take off the right-side brake
-> interconnect bar. Immediately.
->
-> Pictures are available amongst various builders. Perhaps Murphy is working
-> on a service bulletin? Anyone know?
->
-> Ted
->
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
-> thtonner@mymts.net
-> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 7:28 PM
-> To: Murphy Mailing list
-> Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Moose engine choice
->
->
-> Can anyone share a little more information on the right side brake safety
-> concern. I own a SR2500. this is the first I heard of it and would like to
-> know what the issue is, how to resolve, etc.
->
-> Thanks,
-> Tom Tonner
->
-> > From: ted@vafm.org
-> > To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
-> > Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Moose engine choice
-> > Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 10:15:47 -0700
-> >
-> > Hello Rick,
-> >
-> > I have 400+ hours on an M-14P Moose operating at 5,000' in the Denver
-> area.
-> > No problems with gross weight takeoffs even on very warm days. Cruise is
-> > 120 mph at 15.5gph. Anyone that advertises faster cruise than that is full
-> > of !@#@%. I've flown side-by-side with another Moose w/ M-14 and confirmed
-> > speed/gph. Climb perf is about 600 to 800 fpm at medium weight on maybe 60
-> > to 70 degree day at my altitude. I've had it up to 16,500' several times
-> > and it's still able to climb.
-> >
-> > O-540's are definitely faster by far.
-> >
-> > M-14P's are sexy engines. Parts are easy to get and far, FAR less
-> expensive
-> > than O-540. One can get an M-14P (overhauled one) for low $20k and new one
-> > for $25K+ if you look around. To my knowledge, O-540's are way more
-> > expensive than that.
-> >
-> > MAM never released a service bulletin on the huge safety problem of the
-> > right-brake interconnect. Go figure. I just took my interconnect bar
-> > off/out. Other builders have done a variety of mods to enable right-side
-> > brakes (Cessna mod, custom, etc). I don't miss not having right-side
-> brakes
-> > at all.
-> >
-> > Ted
-> >
-> > -----Original Message-----
-> > From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Rick
-> > Byers
-> > Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 5:35 AM
-> > To: Rebel Builders Group
-> > Subject: [rebel-builders] Moose engine choice
-> >
-> > Hi All,
-> >
-> > I'm new to the email group. I started a Super Rebel a few years ago,
-> > purchased the Moose Upgrade and had some down time from the building
-> > process. Plan to start up again soon and am still undecided on the M14-P
-> or
-> > O-540 engine.
-> > MAM has told me that I can complete the fuselage and that the Firewall
-> will
-> > be built the same up to the engine mounting.
-> >
-> > I was hoping to get some feedback from anyone flying Moose with O-540's
-> and
-> > M14's on the pros and cons of each. I've read about the peculiarities of
-> the
-> > M14 series engines as far as how they differ from the Opposed Engines for
-> > ground operations. I guess what I'm looking for is the actual performance
-> > numbers: Rate of climb, cruise speed, fuel burn. I've seen the advertised
-> > numbers but was just looking for some confirmation.
-> >
-> > I currently fly a C-120 out of Bisbee, AZ where the field elevation is
-> 4780
-> > ft. and it's not uncommon to have density altitudes over 8000 ft. in the
-> > warm months. Some days I'm lucky to see 100 fpm climb rate. This is where
-> > I'm wondering about the O-540 with a gross wt airplane.
-> >
-> > I've read about a Moose accident where a brake over centered and locked
-> up.
-> > MAM hasn't responded to my question on that subject yet. Saw some posts by
-> > builders who didn't install the RH side brake mechanism. Is it standard
-> > practice to not install the right seat slave hardware?
-> >
-> > Thank you.
-> > Any answers & help is greatly appreciated.
-> >
-> > Rick Byers
-> > Hereford, AZ
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
->
->
->
->
-> -----------------------------------------------------------------
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-> username "rebel" password "builder"
-> Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> -----------------------------------------------------------------
->
->
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I would be interested, please roger.

Bill

On 12/01/2011 11:17 AM, rogerk@dcsol.com wrote:

hi Tom and Ted

For what it's worth, I managed to fix this permanently with a 1/2" piece
of mild steel about an inch and a half long. No chance of over centering
mine now. I can take a photo if you're interested.

Roger K

On 1/10/2011 7:22 PM, ted@vafm.org wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Tom,
->
-> In brief: The manner in which the brakes are mounted to the floor, in
-> combination with the design of the right-side brake interconnect bar, can,
-> if the brake mounts are off just slightly, cause an unrecoverable (in
-> flight/taxi) pedal lock up. Full L or full R rudder coupled with full brake
-> can cause the brake linkage to go over-center, thereby locking the pedals
-> up. Several builders have experienced this while taxiing and were able to
-> stop and, using a tool (e.g. long screwdriver, pry bar) unlock the pedal.
->
-> One builder with approx 60 hours on his plane ground-looped it on
-> landing/takeoff (can't remember which) resulting in totaling the plane and
-> having the gear leg break off and come up thru the floor severely cutting
-> the pilot's leg.
->
-> This is a SERIOUS issue. If you don't have dual master/slave cylinders or
-> some other mod then I strongly recommend you take off the right-side brake
-> interconnect bar. Immediately.
->
-> Pictures are available amongst various builders. Perhaps Murphy is working
-> on a service bulletin? Anyone know?
->
-> Ted
->
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
-> thtonner@mymts.net
-> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 7:28 PM
-> To: Murphy Mailing list
-> Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Moose engine choice
->
->
-> Can anyone share a little more information on the right side brake safety
-> concern. I own a SR2500. this is the first I heard of it and would like to
-> know what the issue is, how to resolve, etc.
->
-> Thanks,
-> Tom Tonner
->
-> > From: ted@vafm.org
-> > To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
-> > Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Moose engine choice
-> > Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 10:15:47 -0700
-> >
-> > Hello Rick,
-> >
-> > I have 400+ hours on an M-14P Moose operating at 5,000' in the Denver
-> area.
-> > No problems with gross weight takeoffs even on very warm days. Cruise is
-> > 120 mph at 15.5gph. Anyone that advertises faster cruise than that is full
-> > of !@#@%. I've flown side-by-side with another Moose w/ M-14 and confirmed
-> > speed/gph. Climb perf is about 600 to 800 fpm at medium weight on maybe 60
-> > to 70 degree day at my altitude. I've had it up to 16,500' several times
-> > and it's still able to climb.
-> >
-> > O-540's are definitely faster by far.
-> >
-> > M-14P's are sexy engines. Parts are easy to get and far, FAR less
-> expensive
-> > than O-540. One can get an M-14P (overhauled one) for low $20k and new one
-> > for $25K+ if you look around. To my knowledge, O-540's are way more
-> > expensive than that.
-> >
-> > MAM never released a service bulletin on the huge safety problem of the
-> > right-brake interconnect. Go figure. I just took my interconnect bar
-> > off/out. Other builders have done a variety of mods to enable right-side
-> > brakes (Cessna mod, custom, etc). I don't miss not having right-side
-> brakes
-> > at all.
-> >
-> > Ted
-> >
-> > -----Original Message-----
-> > From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Rick
-> > Byers
-> > Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 5:35 AM
-> > To: Rebel Builders Group
-> > Subject: [rebel-builders] Moose engine choice
-> >
-> > Hi All,
-> >
-> > I'm new to the email group. I started a Super Rebel a few years ago,
-> > purchased the Moose Upgrade and had some down time from the building
-> > process. Plan to start up again soon and am still undecided on the M14-P
-> or
-> > O-540 engine.
-> > MAM has told me that I can complete the fuselage and that the Firewall
-> will
-> > be built the same up to the engine mounting.
-> >
-> > I was hoping to get some feedback from anyone flying Moose with O-540's
-> and
-> > M14's on the pros and cons of each. I've read about the peculiarities of
-> the
-> > M14 series engines as far as how they differ from the Opposed Engines for
-> > ground operations. I guess what I'm looking for is the actual performance
-> > numbers: Rate of climb, cruise speed, fuel burn. I've seen the advertised
-> > numbers but was just looking for some confirmation.
-> >
-> > I currently fly a C-120 out of Bisbee, AZ where the field elevation is
-> 4780
-> > ft. and it's not uncommon to have density altitudes over 8000 ft. in the
-> > warm months. Some days I'm lucky to see 100 fpm climb rate. This is where
-> > I'm wondering about the O-540 with a gross wt airplane.
-> >
-> > I've read about a Moose accident where a brake over centered and locked
-> up.
-> > MAM hasn't responded to my question on that subject yet. Saw some posts by
-> > builders who didn't install the RH side brake mechanism. Is it standard
-> > practice to not install the right seat slave hardware?
-> >
-> > Thank you.
-> > Any answers& help is greatly appreciated.
-> >
-> > Rick Byers
-> > Hereford, AZ
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
->
->
->
->
-> -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
-> username "rebel" password "builder"
-> Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> -----------------------------------------------------------------
->
->
->




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Roger,

I'm not to the brake installation stage yet but planning ahead and would like some pictures. I'm an old flight instructor and definitely going to have breaks on the right too, since I'm going to be flying equally L/R seat. Thanks,

Ross
ross.miller@gdit.com


----- Original Message -----
From: rogerk@dcsol.com [mailto:rogerk@dcsol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 07:17 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Moose/Super Rebel brake issue

hi Tom and Ted

For what it's worth, I managed to fix this permanently with a 1/2" piece
of mild steel about an inch and a half long. No chance of over centering
mine now. I can take a photo if you're interested.

Roger K

On 1/10/2011 7:22 PM, ted@vafm.org wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Tom,
->
-> In brief: The manner in which the brakes are mounted to the floor, in
-> combination with the design of the right-side brake interconnect bar, can,
-> if the brake mounts are off just slightly, cause an unrecoverable (in
-> flight/taxi) pedal lock up. Full L or full R rudder coupled with full brake
-> can cause the brake linkage to go over-center, thereby locking the pedals
-> up. Several builders have experienced this while taxiing and were able to
-> stop and, using a tool (e.g. long screwdriver, pry bar) unlock the pedal.
->
-> One builder with approx 60 hours on his plane ground-looped it on
-> landing/takeoff (can't remember which) resulting in totaling the plane and
-> having the gear leg break off and come up thru the floor severely cutting
-> the pilot's leg.
->
-> This is a SERIOUS issue. If you don't have dual master/slave cylinders or
-> some other mod then I strongly recommend you take off the right-side brake
-> interconnect bar. Immediately.
->
-> Pictures are available amongst various builders. Perhaps Murphy is working
-> on a service bulletin? Anyone know?
->
-> Ted
->
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
-> thtonner@mymts.net
-> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 7:28 PM
-> To: Murphy Mailing list
-> Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Moose engine choice
->
->
-> Can anyone share a little more information on the right side brake safety
-> concern. I own a SR2500. this is the first I heard of it and would like to
-> know what the issue is, how to resolve, etc.
->
-> Thanks,
-> Tom Tonner
->
-> > From: ted@vafm.org
-> > To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
-> > Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Moose engine choice
-> > Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 10:15:47 -0700
-> >
-> > Hello Rick,
-> >
-> > I have 400+ hours on an M-14P Moose operating at 5,000' in the Denver
-> area.
-> > No problems with gross weight takeoffs even on very warm days. Cruise is
-> > 120 mph at 15.5gph. Anyone that advertises faster cruise than that is full
-> > of !@#@%. I've flown side-by-side with another Moose w/ M-14 and confirmed
-> > speed/gph. Climb perf is about 600 to 800 fpm at medium weight on maybe 60
-> > to 70 degree day at my altitude. I've had it up to 16,500' several times
-> > and it's still able to climb.
-> >
-> > O-540's are definitely faster by far.
-> >
-> > M-14P's are sexy engines. Parts are easy to get and far, FAR less
-> expensive
-> > than O-540. One can get an M-14P (overhauled one) for low $20k and new one
-> > for $25K+ if you look around. To my knowledge, O-540's are way more
-> > expensive than that.
-> >
-> > MAM never released a service bulletin on the huge safety problem of the
-> > right-brake interconnect. Go figure. I just took my interconnect bar
-> > off/out. Other builders have done a variety of mods to enable right-side
-> > brakes (Cessna mod, custom, etc). I don't miss not having right-side
-> brakes
-> > at all.
-> >
-> > Ted
-> >
-> > -----Original Message-----
-> > From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Rick
-> > Byers
-> > Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 5:35 AM
-> > To: Rebel Builders Group
-> > Subject: [rebel-builders] Moose engine choice
-> >
-> > Hi All,
-> >
-> > I'm new to the email group. I started a Super Rebel a few years ago,
-> > purchased the Moose Upgrade and had some down time from the building
-> > process. Plan to start up again soon and am still undecided on the M14-P
-> or
-> > O-540 engine.
-> > MAM has told me that I can complete the fuselage and that the Firewall
-> will
-> > be built the same up to the engine mounting.
-> >
-> > I was hoping to get some feedback from anyone flying Moose with O-540's
-> and
-> > M14's on the pros and cons of each. I've read about the peculiarities of
-> the
-> > M14 series engines as far as how they differ from the Opposed Engines for
-> > ground operations. I guess what I'm looking for is the actual performance
-> > numbers: Rate of climb, cruise speed, fuel burn. I've seen the advertised
-> > numbers but was just looking for some confirmation.
-> >
-> > I currently fly a C-120 out of Bisbee, AZ where the field elevation is
-> 4780
-> > ft. and it's not uncommon to have density altitudes over 8000 ft. in the
-> > warm months. Some days I'm lucky to see 100 fpm climb rate. This is where
-> > I'm wondering about the O-540 with a gross wt airplane.
-> >
-> > I've read about a Moose accident where a brake over centered and locked
-> up.
-> > MAM hasn't responded to my question on that subject yet. Saw some posts by
-> > builders who didn't install the RH side brake mechanism. Is it standard
-> > practice to not install the right seat slave hardware?
-> >
-> > Thank you.
-> > Any answers & help is greatly appreciated.
-> >
-> > Rick Byers
-> > Hereford, AZ
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
->
->
->
->
-> -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
-> username "rebel" password "builder"
-> Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> -----------------------------------------------------------------
->
->
->




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I think everyone here would love to see your Mod Roger so pics in the
archives would be great. I've had two Elites and a Rebel through here with
dual brakes and I've done everything under the sun and couldn't make them
lock up. Maybe the Moose is a tad different???

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Maxwell" <wrmaxwell@bigpond.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Moose/Super Rebel brake issue

I would be interested, please roger.

Bill

On 12/01/2011 11:17 AM, rogerk@dcsol.com wrote:

hi Tom and Ted

For what it's worth, I managed to fix this permanently with a 1/2" piece
of mild steel about an inch and a half long. No chance of over
centering
mine now. I can take a photo if you're interested.

Roger K

On 1/10/2011 7:22 PM, ted@vafm.org wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Tom,
->
-> In brief: The manner in which the brakes are mounted to the floor, in
-> combination with the design of the right-side brake interconnect bar,
can,
-> if the brake mounts are off just slightly, cause an unrecoverable (in
-> flight/taxi) pedal lock up. Full L or full R rudder coupled with
full brake
-> can cause the brake linkage to go over-center, thereby locking the
pedals
-> up. Several builders have experienced this while taxiing and were
able to
-> stop and, using a tool (e.g. long screwdriver, pry bar) unlock the
pedal.
->
-> One builder with approx 60 hours on his plane ground-looped it on
-> landing/takeoff (can't remember which) resulting in totaling the
plane and
-> having the gear leg break off and come up thru the floor severely
cutting
-> the pilot's leg.
->
-> This is a SERIOUS issue. If you don't have dual master/slave
cylinders or
-> some other mod then I strongly recommend you take off the right-side
brake
-> interconnect bar. Immediately.
->
-> Pictures are available amongst various builders. Perhaps Murphy is
working
-> on a service bulletin? Anyone know?
->
-> Ted
->
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
-> thtonner@mymts.net
-> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 7:28 PM
-> To: Murphy Mailing list
-> Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Moose engine choice
->
->
-> Can anyone share a little more information on the right side brake
safety
-> concern. I own a SR2500. this is the first I heard of it and would
like to
-> know what the issue is, how to resolve, etc.
->
-> Thanks,
-> Tom Tonner
->
-> > From: ted@vafm.org
-> > To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
-> > Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Moose engine choice
-> > Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 10:15:47 -0700
-> >
-> > Hello Rick,
-> >
-> > I have 400+ hours on an M-14P Moose operating at 5,000' in the
Denver
-> area.
-> > No problems with gross weight takeoffs even on very warm days.
Cruise is
-> > 120 mph at 15.5gph. Anyone that advertises faster cruise than that
is full
-> > of !@#@%. I've flown side-by-side with another Moose w/ M-14 and
confirmed
-> > speed/gph. Climb perf is about 600 to 800 fpm at medium weight on
maybe 60
-> > to 70 degree day at my altitude. I've had it up to 16,500' several
times
-> > and it's still able to climb.
-> >
-> > O-540's are definitely faster by far.
-> >
-> > M-14P's are sexy engines. Parts are easy to get and far, FAR less
-> expensive
-> > than O-540. One can get an M-14P (overhauled one) for low $20k and
new one
-> > for $25K+ if you look around. To my knowledge, O-540's are way
more
-> > expensive than that.
-> >
-> > MAM never released a service bulletin on the huge safety problem
of the
-> > right-brake interconnect. Go figure. I just took my interconnect
bar
-> > off/out. Other builders have done a variety of mods to enable
right-side
-> > brakes (Cessna mod, custom, etc). I don't miss not having
right-side
-> brakes
-> > at all.
-> >
-> > Ted
-> >
-> > -----Original Message-----
-> > From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf
Of Rick
-> > Byers
-> > Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 5:35 AM
-> > To: Rebel Builders Group
-> > Subject: [rebel-builders] Moose engine choice
-> >
-> > Hi All,
-> >
-> > I'm new to the email group. I started a Super Rebel a few years
ago,
-> > purchased the Moose Upgrade and had some down time from the
building
-> > process. Plan to start up again soon and am still undecided on the
M14-P
-> or
-> > O-540 engine.
-> > MAM has told me that I can complete the fuselage and that the
Firewall
-> will
-> > be built the same up to the engine mounting.
-> >
-> > I was hoping to get some feedback from anyone flying Moose with
O-540's
-> and
-> > M14's on the pros and cons of each. I've read about the
peculiarities of
-> the
-> > M14 series engines as far as how they differ from the Opposed
Engines for
-> > ground operations. I guess what I'm looking for is the actual
performance
-> > numbers: Rate of climb, cruise speed, fuel burn. I've seen the
advertised
-> > numbers but was just looking for some confirmation.
-> >
-> > I currently fly a C-120 out of Bisbee, AZ where the field
elevation is
-> 4780
-> > ft. and it's not uncommon to have density altitudes over 8000 ft.
in the
-> > warm months. Some days I'm lucky to see 100 fpm climb rate. This
is where
-> > I'm wondering about the O-540 with a gross wt airplane.
-> >
-> > I've read about a Moose accident where a brake over centered and
locked
-> up.
-> > MAM hasn't responded to my question on that subject yet. Saw some
posts by
-> > builders who didn't install the RH side brake mechanism. Is it
standard
-> > practice to not install the right seat slave hardware?
-> >
-> > Thank you.
-> > Any answers& help is greatly appreciated.
-> >
-> > Rick Byers
-> > Hereford, AZ
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
->
->
->
->
-> -----------------------------------------------------------------
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-> username "rebel" password "builder"
-> Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> -----------------------------------------------------------------
->
->
->




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I'm sorry to beat this horse to death on the "potential" Moose brake
over-center issue. I'm not trying to spread rumors and I'm not trying to
malign Murphy Aircraft--just trying to provide builders and those already
flying with a "heads up" to a possible issue.

For a fact, I know that I was able to get my right-side pedal to go
over-center in an extreme full rudder; full brake situation (experimenting
on the ground; not taxiing nor landing/taking off). For a fact I know of
two other builders (I'm not mentioning their names here) who had the pedals
lock up while taxiing. I have pictures that show my pedals in an
over-center position.

I suspect that if one mounts the "Rudder Blocks RP-013" just 1 mm (?) off;
if one isn't very careful with the alignment of these, then perhaps one can
potentially experience this rudder pedal lock up issue. I'm not an engineer
and I haven't experimented with different mounting positions to verify this.
I don't know if the Moose is in any way different than any of the other
Murphy aircraft--all of which are great planes by the way.

All I know is that current builders and those already flying would be wise
to at least inspect this situation on their planes. Maybe they are Ok;
maybe they have an issue--so why not be safe and check?

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
G. O'Shea
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 6:05 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Moose/Super Rebel brake issue

I think everyone here would love to see your Mod Roger so pics in the
archives would be great. I've had two Elites and a Rebel through here with
dual brakes and I've done everything under the sun and couldn't make them
lock up. Maybe the Moose is a tad different???

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Maxwell" <wrmaxwell@bigpond.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Moose/Super Rebel brake issue

I would be interested, please roger.

Bill

On 12/01/2011 11:17 AM, rogerk@dcsol.com wrote:

hi Tom and Ted

For what it's worth, I managed to fix this permanently with a 1/2" piece
of mild steel about an inch and a half long. No chance of over
centering
mine now. I can take a photo if you're interested.

Roger K

On 1/10/2011 7:22 PM, ted@vafm.org wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Tom,
->
-> In brief: The manner in which the brakes are mounted to the floor, in
-> combination with the design of the right-side brake interconnect bar,

can,
-> if the brake mounts are off just slightly, cause an unrecoverable (in
-> flight/taxi) pedal lock up. Full L or full R rudder coupled with
full brake
-> can cause the brake linkage to go over-center, thereby locking the
pedals
-> up. Several builders have experienced this while taxiing and were
able to
-> stop and, using a tool (e.g. long screwdriver, pry bar) unlock the
pedal.
->
-> One builder with approx 60 hours on his plane ground-looped it on
-> landing/takeoff (can't remember which) resulting in totaling the
plane and
-> having the gear leg break off and come up thru the floor severely
cutting
-> the pilot's leg.
->
-> This is a SERIOUS issue. If you don't have dual master/slave
cylinders or
-> some other mod then I strongly recommend you take off the right-side
brake
-> interconnect bar. Immediately.
->
-> Pictures are available amongst various builders. Perhaps Murphy is
working
-> on a service bulletin? Anyone know?
->
-> Ted
->
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
-> thtonner@mymts.net
-> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 7:28 PM
-> To: Murphy Mailing list
-> Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Moose engine choice
->
->
-> Can anyone share a little more information on the right side brake
safety
-> concern. I own a SR2500. this is the first I heard of it and would
like to
-> know what the issue is, how to resolve, etc.
->
-> Thanks,
-> Tom Tonner
->
-> > From: ted@vafm.org
-> > To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
-> > Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Moose engine choice
-> > Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 10:15:47 -0700
-> >
-> > Hello Rick,
-> >
-> > I have 400+ hours on an M-14P Moose operating at 5,000' in the
Denver
-> area.
-> > No problems with gross weight takeoffs even on very warm days.
Cruise is
-> > 120 mph at 15.5gph. Anyone that advertises faster cruise than that

is full
-> > of !@#@%. I've flown side-by-side with another Moose w/ M-14 and
confirmed
-> > speed/gph. Climb perf is about 600 to 800 fpm at medium weight on
maybe 60
-> > to 70 degree day at my altitude. I've had it up to 16,500' several

times
-> > and it's still able to climb.
-> >
-> > O-540's are definitely faster by far.
-> >
-> > M-14P's are sexy engines. Parts are easy to get and far, FAR less
-> expensive
-> > than O-540. One can get an M-14P (overhauled one) for low $20k and

new one
-> > for $25K+ if you look around. To my knowledge, O-540's are way
more
-> > expensive than that.
-> >
-> > MAM never released a service bulletin on the huge safety problem
of the
-> > right-brake interconnect. Go figure. I just took my interconnect
bar
-> > off/out. Other builders have done a variety of mods to enable
right-side
-> > brakes (Cessna mod, custom, etc). I don't miss not having
right-side
-> brakes
-> > at all.
-> >
-> > Ted
-> >
-> > -----Original Message-----
-> > From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf

Of Rick
-> > Byers
-> > Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 5:35 AM
-> > To: Rebel Builders Group
-> > Subject: [rebel-builders] Moose engine choice
-> >
-> > Hi All,
-> >
-> > I'm new to the email group. I started a Super Rebel a few years
ago,
-> > purchased the Moose Upgrade and had some down time from the
building
-> > process. Plan to start up again soon and am still undecided on the

M14-P
-> or
-> > O-540 engine.
-> > MAM has told me that I can complete the fuselage and that the
Firewall
-> will
-> > be built the same up to the engine mounting.
-> >
-> > I was hoping to get some feedback from anyone flying Moose with
O-540's
-> and
-> > M14's on the pros and cons of each. I've read about the
peculiarities of
-> the
-> > M14 series engines as far as how they differ from the Opposed
Engines for
-> > ground operations. I guess what I'm looking for is the actual
performance
-> > numbers: Rate of climb, cruise speed, fuel burn. I've seen the
advertised
-> > numbers but was just looking for some confirmation.
-> >
-> > I currently fly a C-120 out of Bisbee, AZ where the field
elevation is
-> 4780
-> > ft. and it's not uncommon to have density altitudes over 8000 ft.
in the
-> > warm months. Some days I'm lucky to see 100 fpm climb rate. This
is where
-> > I'm wondering about the O-540 with a gross wt airplane.
-> >
-> > I've read about a Moose accident where a brake over centered and
locked
-> up.
-> > MAM hasn't responded to my question on that subject yet. Saw some
posts by
-> > builders who didn't install the RH side brake mechanism. Is it
standard
-> > practice to not install the right seat slave hardware?
-> >
-> > Thank you.
-> > Any answers& help is greatly appreciated.
-> >
-> > Rick Byers
-> > Hereford, AZ
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
->
->
->
->
-> -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
-> username "rebel" password "builder"
-> Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> -----------------------------------------------------------------
->
->
->




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This issue comes up from time to time. And I did see the wreck of the Moose
with the over center claimed as the cause, but don't know the builder.

I did set up a mockup stand and tried to do the over center trick. It was
difficult. I did manage to do it and it took full left or right control with
opposite brake which is not a normal control input. I did see the over
center problem. So, my "fix" was to ensure the brake pedal could not *ever*
go over center. Photos on my website:

http://efogelin.com/aviation/murphy/lig ... G_20080106_
002_large.html

Hope that long link doesn't get cut up.

Try this if it does.

http://efogelin.com/aviation/murphy/lig ... dex_2.html

I have now flown a total of 200 hours with many of them with pilots and
pilots in training using the brakes from the right seat. They have to really
stomp on them on amphib floats because the mechanical linkage and the really
tiny wheels and brakes on amphibs require serious stomping. No over center
problems to date.

Eric
N645E

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Ted
Waltman
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 5:25 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Moose/Super Rebel brake issue

I'm sorry to beat this horse to death on the "potential" Moose brake
over-center issue. I'm not trying to spread rumors and I'm not trying to
malign Murphy Aircraft--just trying to provide builders and those already
flying with a "heads up" to a possible issue.

For a fact, I know that I was able to get my right-side pedal to go
over-center in an extreme full rudder; full brake situation (experimenting
on the ground; not taxiing nor landing/taking off). For a fact I know of
two other builders (I'm not mentioning their names here) who had the pedals
lock up while taxiing. I have pictures that show my pedals in an
over-center position.

I suspect that if one mounts the "Rudder Blocks RP-013" just 1 mm (?) off;
if one isn't very careful with the alignment of these, then perhaps one can
potentially experience this rudder pedal lock up issue. I'm not an engineer
and I haven't experimented with different mounting positions to verify this.
I don't know if the Moose is in any way different than any of the other
Murphy aircraft--all of which are great planes by the way.

All I know is that current builders and those already flying would be wise
to at least inspect this situation on their planes. Maybe they are Ok;
maybe they have an issue--so why not be safe and check?

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
G. O'Shea
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 6:05 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Moose/Super Rebel brake issue

I think everyone here would love to see your Mod Roger so pics in the
archives would be great. I've had two Elites and a Rebel through here with
dual brakes and I've done everything under the sun and couldn't make them
lock up. Maybe the Moose is a tad different???

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Maxwell" <wrmaxwell@bigpond.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Moose/Super Rebel brake issue

I would be interested, please roger.

Bill

On 12/01/2011 11:17 AM, rogerk@dcsol.com wrote:

hi Tom and Ted

For what it's worth, I managed to fix this permanently with a 1/2" piece
of mild steel about an inch and a half long. No chance of over
centering
mine now. I can take a photo if you're interested.

Roger K

On 1/10/2011 7:22 PM, ted@vafm.org wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Tom,
->
-> In brief: The manner in which the brakes are mounted to the floor, in
-> combination with the design of the right-side brake interconnect bar,

can,
-> if the brake mounts are off just slightly, cause an unrecoverable (in
-> flight/taxi) pedal lock up. Full L or full R rudder coupled with
full brake
-> can cause the brake linkage to go over-center, thereby locking the
pedals
-> up. Several builders have experienced this while taxiing and were
able to
-> stop and, using a tool (e.g. long screwdriver, pry bar) unlock the
pedal.
->
-> One builder with approx 60 hours on his plane ground-looped it on
-> landing/takeoff (can't remember which) resulting in totaling the
plane and
-> having the gear leg break off and come up thru the floor severely
cutting
-> the pilot's leg.
->
-> This is a SERIOUS issue. If you don't have dual master/slave
cylinders or
-> some other mod then I strongly recommend you take off the right-side
brake
-> interconnect bar. Immediately.
->
-> Pictures are available amongst various builders. Perhaps Murphy is
working
-> on a service bulletin? Anyone know?
->
-> Ted
->
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
-> thtonner@mymts.net
-> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 7:28 PM
-> To: Murphy Mailing list
-> Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Moose engine choice
->
->
-> Can anyone share a little more information on the right side brake
safety
-> concern. I own a SR2500. this is the first I heard of it and would
like to
-> know what the issue is, how to resolve, etc.
->
-> Thanks,
-> Tom Tonner
->
-> > From: ted@vafm.org
-> > To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
-> > Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Moose engine choice
-> > Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 10:15:47 -0700
-> >
-> > Hello Rick,
-> >
-> > I have 400+ hours on an M-14P Moose operating at 5,000' in the
Denver
-> area.
-> > No problems with gross weight takeoffs even on very warm days.
Cruise is
-> > 120 mph at 15.5gph. Anyone that advertises faster cruise than that

is full
-> > of !@#@%. I've flown side-by-side with another Moose w/ M-14 and
confirmed
-> > speed/gph. Climb perf is about 600 to 800 fpm at medium weight on
maybe 60
-> > to 70 degree day at my altitude. I've had it up to 16,500' several

times
-> > and it's still able to climb.
-> >
-> > O-540's are definitely faster by far.
-> >
-> > M-14P's are sexy engines. Parts are easy to get and far, FAR less
-> expensive
-> > than O-540. One can get an M-14P (overhauled one) for low $20k and

new one
-> > for $25K+ if you look around. To my knowledge, O-540's are way
more
-> > expensive than that.
-> >
-> > MAM never released a service bulletin on the huge safety problem
of the
-> > right-brake interconnect. Go figure. I just took my interconnect
bar
-> > off/out. Other builders have done a variety of mods to enable
right-side
-> > brakes (Cessna mod, custom, etc). I don't miss not having
right-side
-> brakes
-> > at all.
-> >
-> > Ted
-> >
-> > -----Original Message-----
-> > From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf

Of Rick
-> > Byers
-> > Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 5:35 AM
-> > To: Rebel Builders Group
-> > Subject: [rebel-builders] Moose engine choice
-> >
-> > Hi All,
-> >
-> > I'm new to the email group. I started a Super Rebel a few years
ago,
-> > purchased the Moose Upgrade and had some down time from the
building
-> > process. Plan to start up again soon and am still undecided on the

M14-P
-> or
-> > O-540 engine.
-> > MAM has told me that I can complete the fuselage and that the
Firewall
-> will
-> > be built the same up to the engine mounting.
-> >
-> > I was hoping to get some feedback from anyone flying Moose with
O-540's
-> and
-> > M14's on the pros and cons of each. I've read about the
peculiarities of
-> the
-> > M14 series engines as far as how they differ from the Opposed
Engines for
-> > ground operations. I guess what I'm looking for is the actual
performance
-> > numbers: Rate of climb, cruise speed, fuel burn. I've seen the
advertised
-> > numbers but was just looking for some confirmation.
-> >
-> > I currently fly a C-120 out of Bisbee, AZ where the field
elevation is
-> 4780
-> > ft. and it's not uncommon to have density altitudes over 8000 ft.
in the
-> > warm months. Some days I'm lucky to see 100 fpm climb rate. This
is where
-> > I'm wondering about the O-540 with a gross wt airplane.
-> >
-> > I've read about a Moose accident where a brake over centered and
locked
-> up.
-> > MAM hasn't responded to my question on that subject yet. Saw some
posts by
-> > builders who didn't install the RH side brake mechanism. Is it
standard
-> > practice to not install the right seat slave hardware?
-> >
-> > Thank you.
-> > Any answers& help is greatly appreciated.
-> >
-> > Rick Byers
-> > Hereford, AZ
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
->
->
->
->
-> -----------------------------------------------------------------
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-> username "rebel" password "builder"
-> Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
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-> -----------------------------------------------------------------
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Hi All: I'll go along with Mike; the only way there may be some binding is
if one of the brake master cylinder emptied and the brake pedal hit the
firewall before the rudder pedal reached its furthest deflection, but there
still would leave some rudder during landing/takeoff. Some photos would help
enormously as everyone reading this forum is worried sick about the
possibilities of a pending accident. Regards, Eduardo

-----Mensaje original-----
De: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] En nombre de Wayne G.
O'Shea
Enviado el: martes, 11 de enero de 2011 09:05 p.m.
Para: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Asunto: Re: [rebel-builders] Moose/Super Rebel brake issue

I think everyone here would love to see your Mod Roger so pics in the
archives would be great. I've had two Elites and a Rebel through here with
dual brakes and I've done everything under the sun and couldn't make them
lock up. Maybe the Moose is a tad different???

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Maxwell" <wrmaxwell@bigpond.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Moose/Super Rebel brake issue

I would be interested, please roger.

Bill

On 12/01/2011 11:17 AM, rogerk@dcsol.com wrote:

hi Tom and Ted

For what it's worth, I managed to fix this permanently with a 1/2" piece
of mild steel about an inch and a half long. No chance of over
centering
mine now. I can take a photo if you're interested.

Roger K

On 1/10/2011 7:22 PM, ted@vafm.org wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Tom,
->
-> In brief: The manner in which the brakes are mounted to the floor, in
-> combination with the design of the right-side brake interconnect bar,

can,
-> if the brake mounts are off just slightly, cause an unrecoverable (in
-> flight/taxi) pedal lock up. Full L or full R rudder coupled with
full brake
-> can cause the brake linkage to go over-center, thereby locking the
pedals
-> up. Several builders have experienced this while taxiing and were
able to
-> stop and, using a tool (e.g. long screwdriver, pry bar) unlock the
pedal.
->
-> One builder with approx 60 hours on his plane ground-looped it on
-> landing/takeoff (can't remember which) resulting in totaling the
plane and
-> having the gear leg break off and come up thru the floor severely
cutting
-> the pilot's leg.
->
-> This is a SERIOUS issue. If you don't have dual master/slave
cylinders or
-> some other mod then I strongly recommend you take off the right-side
brake
-> interconnect bar. Immediately.
->
-> Pictures are available amongst various builders. Perhaps Murphy is
working
-> on a service bulletin? Anyone know?
->
-> Ted
->
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
-> thtonner@mymts.net
-> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 7:28 PM
-> To: Murphy Mailing list
-> Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Moose engine choice
->
->
-> Can anyone share a little more information on the right side brake
safety
-> concern. I own a SR2500. this is the first I heard of it and would
like to
-> know what the issue is, how to resolve, etc.
->
-> Thanks,
-> Tom Tonner
->
-> > From: ted@vafm.org
-> > To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
-> > Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Moose engine choice
-> > Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 10:15:47 -0700
-> >
-> > Hello Rick,
-> >
-> > I have 400+ hours on an M-14P Moose operating at 5,000' in the
Denver
-> area.
-> > No problems with gross weight takeoffs even on very warm days.
Cruise is
-> > 120 mph at 15.5gph. Anyone that advertises faster cruise than that

is full
-> > of !@#@%. I've flown side-by-side with another Moose w/ M-14 and
confirmed
-> > speed/gph. Climb perf is about 600 to 800 fpm at medium weight on
maybe 60
-> > to 70 degree day at my altitude. I've had it up to 16,500' several

times
-> > and it's still able to climb.
-> >
-> > O-540's are definitely faster by far.
-> >
-> > M-14P's are sexy engines. Parts are easy to get and far, FAR less
-> expensive
-> > than O-540. One can get an M-14P (overhauled one) for low $20k and

new one
-> > for $25K+ if you look around. To my knowledge, O-540's are way
more
-> > expensive than that.
-> >
-> > MAM never released a service bulletin on the huge safety problem
of the
-> > right-brake interconnect. Go figure. I just took my interconnect
bar
-> > off/out. Other builders have done a variety of mods to enable
right-side
-> > brakes (Cessna mod, custom, etc). I don't miss not having
right-side
-> brakes
-> > at all.
-> >
-> > Ted
-> >
-> > -----Original Message-----
-> > From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf

Of Rick
-> > Byers
-> > Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 5:35 AM
-> > To: Rebel Builders Group
-> > Subject: [rebel-builders] Moose engine choice
-> >
-> > Hi All,
-> >
-> > I'm new to the email group. I started a Super Rebel a few years
ago,
-> > purchased the Moose Upgrade and had some down time from the
building
-> > process. Plan to start up again soon and am still undecided on the

M14-P
-> or
-> > O-540 engine.
-> > MAM has told me that I can complete the fuselage and that the
Firewall
-> will
-> > be built the same up to the engine mounting.
-> >
-> > I was hoping to get some feedback from anyone flying Moose with
O-540's
-> and
-> > M14's on the pros and cons of each. I've read about the
peculiarities of
-> the
-> > M14 series engines as far as how they differ from the Opposed
Engines for
-> > ground operations. I guess what I'm looking for is the actual
performance
-> > numbers: Rate of climb, cruise speed, fuel burn. I've seen the
advertised
-> > numbers but was just looking for some confirmation.
-> >
-> > I currently fly a C-120 out of Bisbee, AZ where the field
elevation is
-> 4780
-> > ft. and it's not uncommon to have density altitudes over 8000 ft.
in the
-> > warm months. Some days I'm lucky to see 100 fpm climb rate. This
is where
-> > I'm wondering about the O-540 with a gross wt airplane.
-> >
-> > I've read about a Moose accident where a brake over centered and
locked
-> up.
-> > MAM hasn't responded to my question on that subject yet. Saw some
posts by
-> > builders who didn't install the RH side brake mechanism. Is it
standard
-> > practice to not install the right seat slave hardware?
-> >
-> > Thank you.
-> > Any answers& help is greatly appreciated.
-> >
-> > Rick Byers
-> > Hereford, AZ
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
->
->
->
->
-> -----------------------------------------------------------------
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-> username "rebel" password "builder"
-> Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> -----------------------------------------------------------------
->
->
->




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__________ Informaci

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Eric
Fogelin
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 12:16 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Moose/Super Rebel brake issue

This issue comes up from time to time. And I did see the wreck of the Moose
with the over center claimed as the cause, but don't know the builder.

I did set up a mockup stand and tried to do the over center trick. It was
difficult. I did manage to do it and it took full left or right control with
opposite brake which is not a normal control input. I did see the over
center problem. So, my "fix" was to ensure the brake pedal could not *ever*
go over center. Photos on my website:

http://efogelin.com/aviation/murphy/lig ... G_20080106_
002_large.html

Hope that long link doesn't get cut up.

Try this if it does.

http://efogelin.com/aviation/murphy/lig ... dex_2.html

I have now flown a total of 200 hours with many of them with pilots and
pilots in training using the brakes from the right seat. They have to really
stomp on them on amphib floats because the mechanical linkage and the really
tiny wheels and brakes on amphibs require serious stomping. No over center
problems to date.

Eric
N645E

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Ted
Waltman
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 5:25 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Moose/Super Rebel brake issue

I'm sorry to beat this horse to death on the "potential" Moose brake
over-center issue. I'm not trying to spread rumors and I'm not trying to
malign Murphy Aircraft--just trying to provide builders and those already
flying with a "heads up" to a possible issue.

For a fact, I know that I was able to get my right-side pedal to go
over-center in an extreme full rudder; full brake situation (experimenting
on the ground; not taxiing nor landing/taking off). For a fact I know of
two other builders (I'm not mentioning their names here) who had the pedals
lock up while taxiing. I have pictures that show my pedals in an
over-center position.

I suspect that if one mounts the "Rudder Blocks RP-013" just 1 mm (?) off;
if one isn't very careful with the alignment of these, then perhaps one can
potentially experience this rudder pedal lock up issue. I'm not an engineer
and I haven't experimented with different mounting positions to verify this.
I don't know if the Moose is in any way different than any of the other
Murphy aircraft--all of which are great planes by the way.

All I know is that current builders and those already flying would be wise
to at least inspect this situation on their planes. Maybe they are Ok;
maybe they have an issue--so why not be safe and check?

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
G. O'Shea
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 6:05 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Moose/Super Rebel brake issue

I think everyone here would love to see your Mod Roger so pics in the
archives would be great. I've had two Elites and a Rebel through here with
dual brakes and I've done everything under the sun and couldn't make them
lock up. Maybe the Moose is a tad different???

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Maxwell" <wrmaxwell@bigpond.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Moose/Super Rebel brake issue

I would be interested, please roger.

Bill

On 12/01/2011 11:17 AM, rogerk@dcsol.com wrote:

hi Tom and Ted

For what it's worth, I managed to fix this permanently with a 1/2" piece
of mild steel about an inch and a half long. No chance of over
centering
mine now. I can take a photo if you're interested.

Roger K

On 1/10/2011 7:22 PM, ted@vafm.org wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Tom,
->
-> In brief: The manner in which the brakes are mounted to the floor, in
-> combination with the design of the right-side brake interconnect bar,

can,
-> if the brake mounts are off just slightly, cause an unrecoverable (in
-> flight/taxi) pedal lock up. Full L or full R rudder coupled with
full brake
-> can cause the brake linkage to go over-center, thereby locking the
pedals
-> up. Several builders have experienced this while taxiing and were
able to
-> stop and, using a tool (e.g. long screwdriver, pry bar) unlock the
pedal.
->
-> One builder with approx 60 hours on his plane ground-looped it on
-> landing/takeoff (can't remember which) resulting in totaling the
plane and
-> having the gear leg break off and come up thru the floor severely
cutting
-> the pilot's leg.
->
-> This is a SERIOUS issue. If you don't have dual master/slave
cylinders or
-> some other mod then I strongly recommend you take off the right-side
brake
-> interconnect bar. Immediately.
->
-> Pictures are available amongst various builders. Perhaps Murphy is
working
-> on a service bulletin? Anyone know?
->
-> Ted
->
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
-> thtonner@mymts.net
-> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 7:28 PM
-> To: Murphy Mailing list
-> Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Moose engine choice
->
->
-> Can anyone share a little more information on the right side brake
safety
-> concern. I own a SR2500. this is the first I heard of it and would
like to
-> know what the issue is, how to resolve, etc.
->
-> Thanks,
-> Tom Tonner
->
-> > From: ted@vafm.org
-> > To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
-> > Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Moose engine choice
-> > Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 10:15:47 -0700
-> >
-> > Hello Rick,
-> >
-> > I have 400+ hours on an M-14P Moose operating at 5,000' in the
Denver
-> area.
-> > No problems with gross weight takeoffs even on very warm days.
Cruise is
-> > 120 mph at 15.5gph. Anyone that advertises faster cruise than that

is full
-> > of !@#@%. I've flown side-by-side with another Moose w/ M-14 and
confirmed
-> > speed/gph. Climb perf is about 600 to 800 fpm at medium weight on
maybe 60
-> > to 70 degree day at my altitude. I've had it up to 16,500' several

times
-> > and it's still able to climb.
-> >
-> > O-540's are definitely faster by far.
-> >
-> > M-14P's are sexy engines. Parts are easy to get and far, FAR less
-> expensive
-> > than O-540. One can get an M-14P (overhauled one) for low $20k and

new one
-> > for $25K+ if you look around. To my knowledge, O-540's are way
more
-> > expensive than that.
-> >
-> > MAM never released a service bulletin on the huge safety problem
of the
-> > right-brake interconnect. Go figure. I just took my interconnect
bar
-> > off/out. Other builders have done a variety of mods to enable
right-side
-> > brakes (Cessna mod, custom, etc). I don't miss not having
right-side
-> brakes
-> > at all.
-> >
-> > Ted
-> >
-> > -----Original Message-----
-> > From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf

Of Rick
-> > Byers
-> > Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 5:35 AM
-> > To: Rebel Builders Group
-> > Subject: [rebel-builders] Moose engine choice
-> >
-> > Hi All,
-> >
-> > I'm new to the email group. I started a Super Rebel a few years
ago,
-> > purchased the Moose Upgrade and had some down time from the
building
-> > process. Plan to start up again soon and am still undecided on the

M14-P
-> or
-> > O-540 engine.
-> > MAM has told me that I can complete the fuselage and that the
Firewall
-> will
-> > be built the same up to the engine mounting.
-> >
-> > I was hoping to get some feedback from anyone flying Moose with
O-540's
-> and
-> > M14's on the pros and cons of each. I've read about the
peculiarities of
-> the
-> > M14 series engines as far as how they differ from the Opposed
Engines for
-> > ground operations. I guess what I'm looking for is the actual
performance
-> > numbers: Rate of climb, cruise speed, fuel burn. I've seen the
advertised
-> > numbers but was just looking for some confirmation.
-> >
-> > I currently fly a C-120 out of Bisbee, AZ where the field
elevation is
-> 4780
-> > ft. and it's not uncommon to have density altitudes over 8000 ft.
in the
-> > warm months. Some days I'm lucky to see 100 fpm climb rate. This
is where
-> > I'm wondering about the O-540 with a gross wt airplane.
-> >
-> > I've read about a Moose accident where a brake over centered and
locked
-> up.
-> > MAM hasn't responded to my question on that subject yet. Saw some
posts by
-> > builders who didn't install the RH side brake mechanism. Is it
standard
-> > practice to not install the right seat slave hardware?
-> >
-> > Thank you.
-> > Any answers& help is greatly appreciated.
-> >
-> > Rick Byers
-> > Hereford, AZ
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
->
->
->
->
-> -----------------------------------------------------------------
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-> username "rebel" password "builder"
-> Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> -----------------------------------------------------------------
->
->
->




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Eric,
Thanks for the link. Im working on a Super Rebel SR2500 and in
looking at your construction photos of the stabilizer -- it's exactly as the
SR 2500. Your concise documentation will be very helpful to me as I move
forward.
Best,
Jerry Folkerts
SR 2500 #093

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Eric
Fogelin
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 12:16 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Moose/Super Rebel brake issue

This issue comes up from time to time. And I did see the wreck of the Moose
with the over center claimed as the cause, but don't know the builder.

I did set up a mockup stand and tried to do the over center trick. It was
difficult. I did manage to do it and it took full left or right control with
opposite brake which is not a normal control input. I did see the over
center problem. So, my "fix" was to ensure the brake pedal could not *ever*
go over center. Photos on my website:

http://efogelin.com/aviation/murphy/lig ... G_20080106_
002_large.html

Hope that long link doesn't get cut up.

Try this if it does.

http://efogelin.com/aviation/murphy/lig ... dex_2.html

I have now flown a total of 200 hours with many of them with pilots and
pilots in training using the brakes from the right seat. They have to really
stomp on them on amphib floats because the mechanical linkage and the really
tiny wheels and brakes on amphibs require serious stomping. No over center
problems to date.

Eric
N645E

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Ted
Waltman
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 5:25 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Moose/Super Rebel brake issue

I'm sorry to beat this horse to death on the "potential" Moose brake
over-center issue. I'm not trying to spread rumors and I'm not trying to
malign Murphy Aircraft--just trying to provide builders and those already
flying with a "heads up" to a possible issue.

For a fact, I know that I was able to get my right-side pedal to go
over-center in an extreme full rudder; full brake situation (experimenting
on the ground; not taxiing nor landing/taking off). For a fact I know of
two other builders (I'm not mentioning their names here) who had the pedals
lock up while taxiing. I have pictures that show my pedals in an
over-center position.

I suspect that if one mounts the "Rudder Blocks RP-013" just 1 mm (?) off;
if one isn't very careful with the alignment of these, then perhaps one can
potentially experience this rudder pedal lock up issue. I'm not an engineer
and I haven't experimented with different mounting positions to verify this.
I don't know if the Moose is in any way different than any of the other
Murphy aircraft--all of which are great planes by the way.

All I know is that current builders and those already flying would be wise
to at least inspect this situation on their planes. Maybe they are Ok;
maybe they have an issue--so why not be safe and check?

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
G. O'Shea
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 6:05 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Moose/Super Rebel brake issue

I think everyone here would love to see your Mod Roger so pics in the
archives would be great. I've had two Elites and a Rebel through here with
dual brakes and I've done everything under the sun and couldn't make them
lock up. Maybe the Moose is a tad different???

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Maxwell" <wrmaxwell@bigpond.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Moose/Super Rebel brake issue

I would be interested, please roger.

Bill

On 12/01/2011 11:17 AM, rogerk@dcsol.com wrote:

hi Tom and Ted

For what it's worth, I managed to fix this permanently with a 1/2" piece
of mild steel about an inch and a half long. No chance of over
centering
mine now. I can take a photo if you're interested.

Roger K

On 1/10/2011 7:22 PM, ted@vafm.org wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Tom,
->
-> In brief: The manner in which the brakes are mounted to the floor, in
-> combination with the design of the right-side brake interconnect bar,

can,
-> if the brake mounts are off just slightly, cause an unrecoverable (in
-> flight/taxi) pedal lock up. Full L or full R rudder coupled with
full brake
-> can cause the brake linkage to go over-center, thereby locking the
pedals
-> up. Several builders have experienced this while taxiing and were
able to
-> stop and, using a tool (e.g. long screwdriver, pry bar) unlock the
pedal.
->
-> One builder with approx 60 hours on his plane ground-looped it on
-> landing/takeoff (can't remember which) resulting in totaling the
plane and
-> having the gear leg break off and come up thru the floor severely
cutting
-> the pilot's leg.
->
-> This is a SERIOUS issue. If you don't have dual master/slave
cylinders or
-> some other mod then I strongly recommend you take off the right-side
brake
-> interconnect bar. Immediately.
->
-> Pictures are available amongst various builders. Perhaps Murphy is
working
-> on a service bulletin? Anyone know?
->
-> Ted
->
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
-> thtonner@mymts.net
-> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 7:28 PM
-> To: Murphy Mailing list
-> Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Moose engine choice
->
->
-> Can anyone share a little more information on the right side brake
safety
-> concern. I own a SR2500. this is the first I heard of it and would
like to
-> know what the issue is, how to resolve, etc.
->
-> Thanks,
-> Tom Tonner
->
-> > From: ted@vafm.org
-> > To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
-> > Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Moose engine choice
-> > Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 10:15:47 -0700
-> >
-> > Hello Rick,
-> >
-> > I have 400+ hours on an M-14P Moose operating at 5,000' in the
Denver
-> area.
-> > No problems with gross weight takeoffs even on very warm days.
Cruise is
-> > 120 mph at 15.5gph. Anyone that advertises faster cruise than that

is full
-> > of !@#@%. I've flown side-by-side with another Moose w/ M-14 and
confirmed
-> > speed/gph. Climb perf is about 600 to 800 fpm at medium weight on
maybe 60
-> > to 70 degree day at my altitude. I've had it up to 16,500' several

times
-> > and it's still able to climb.
-> >
-> > O-540's are definitely faster by far.
-> >
-> > M-14P's are sexy engines. Parts are easy to get and far, FAR less
-> expensive
-> > than O-540. One can get an M-14P (overhauled one) for low $20k and

new one
-> > for $25K+ if you look around. To my knowledge, O-540's are way
more
-> > expensive than that.
-> >
-> > MAM never released a service bulletin on the huge safety problem
of the
-> > right-brake interconnect. Go figure. I just took my interconnect
bar
-> > off/out. Other builders have done a variety of mods to enable
right-side
-> > brakes (Cessna mod, custom, etc). I don't miss not having
right-side
-> brakes
-> > at all.
-> >
-> > Ted
-> >
-> > -----Original Message-----
-> > From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf

Of Rick
-> > Byers
-> > Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 5:35 AM
-> > To: Rebel Builders Group
-> > Subject: [rebel-builders] Moose engine choice
-> >
-> > Hi All,
-> >
-> > I'm new to the email group. I started a Super Rebel a few years
ago,
-> > purchased the Moose Upgrade and had some down time from the
building
-> > process. Plan to start up again soon and am still undecided on the

M14-P
-> or
-> > O-540 engine.
-> > MAM has told me that I can complete the fuselage and that the
Firewall
-> will
-> > be built the same up to the engine mounting.
-> >
-> > I was hoping to get some feedback from anyone flying Moose with
O-540's
-> and
-> > M14's on the pros and cons of each. I've read about the
peculiarities of
-> the
-> > M14 series engines as far as how they differ from the Opposed
Engines for
-> > ground operations. I guess what I'm looking for is the actual
performance
-> > numbers: Rate of climb, cruise speed, fuel burn. I've seen the
advertised
-> > numbers but was just looking for some confirmation.
-> >
-> > I currently fly a C-120 out of Bisbee, AZ where the field
elevation is
-> 4780
-> > ft. and it's not uncommon to have density altitudes over 8000 ft.
in the
-> > warm months. Some days I'm lucky to see 100 fpm climb rate. This
is where
-> > I'm wondering about the O-540 with a gross wt airplane.
-> >
-> > I've read about a Moose accident where a brake over centered and
locked
-> up.
-> > MAM hasn't responded to my question on that subject yet. Saw some
posts by
-> > builders who didn't install the RH side brake mechanism. Is it
standard
-> > practice to not install the right seat slave hardware?
-> >
-> > Thank you.
-> > Any answers& help is greatly appreciated.
-> >
-> > Rick Byers
-> > Hereford, AZ
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
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-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
->
->
->
->
-> -----------------------------------------------------------------
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-> username "rebel" password "builder"
-> Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
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-> -----------------------------------------------------------------
->
->
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I was able to lock my pedals up mounted on my floor panel while it was still on the work bench! I just disabled the dual system. I figure I can always add a second set of master cylinders at a later date on the co-pilots side.

-Jason

--- On Tue, 1/11/11, Ted Waltman <ted@vafm.org> wrote:

[quote]From: Ted Waltman <ted@vafm.org>
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Moose/Super Rebel brake issue
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Date: Tuesday, January 11, 2011, 5:24 PM
I'm sorry to beat this horse to death
on the "potential" Moose brake
over-center issue.

The issue with the dual brakes is a adjustment problem not really a design
issue.

What causes it is the slave link from the petal to the horizontal shaft. If
the slave rod conector ( the ears that the slave link connects to ) on
either side on the horizontal rudder shaft becomes vertical with full rudder
and brake applied, it can go over center instead of returning to its
original position and you will have full rudder and no way to get it back,
also you will have no brake.

The adjustment on the rudder and brake petals takes some fine tuning on the
ajustments to get rudder and brake travel correct with out the danger of
going over center.

As I have said before I don't normally add to these threads but I have had
2 airplanes (Mooses) do this and feel it is something to be aware of.

Fortunately both of them were on the ground and the problem was discovered
before flight.

Keith Kinden



_____

From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
G. O'Shea
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 6:05 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Moose/Super Rebel brake issue



I think everyone here would love to see your Mod Roger so pics in the
archives would be great. I've had two Elites and a Rebel through here with
dual brakes and I've done everything under the sun and couldn't make them
lock up. Maybe the Moose is a tad different???

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Maxwell" <wrmaxwell@bigpond.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Moose/Super Rebel brake issue

I would be interested, please roger.

Bill

On 12/01/2011 11:17 AM, rogerk@dcsol.com wrote:

hi Tom and Ted

For what it's worth, I managed to fix this permanently with a 1/2" piece
of mild steel about an inch and a half long. No chance of over
centering
mine now. I can take a photo if you're interested.

Roger K

On 1/10/2011 7:22 PM, ted@vafm.org wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Tom,
->
-> In brief: The manner in which the brakes are mounted to the floor, in
-> combination with the design of the right-side brake interconnect bar,
can,
-> if the brake mounts are off just slightly, cause an unrecoverable (in
-> flight/taxi) pedal lock up. Full L or full R rudder coupled with
full brake
-> can cause the brake linkage to go over-center, thereby locking the
pedals
-> up. Several builders have experienced this while taxiing and were
able to
-> stop and, using a tool (e.g. long screwdriver, pry bar) unlock the
pedal.
->
-> One builder with approx 60 hours on his plane ground-looped it on
-> landing/takeoff (can't remember which) resulting in totaling the
plane and
-> having the gear leg break off and come up thru the floor severely
cutting
-> the pilot's leg.
->
-> This is a SERIOUS issue. If you don't have dual master/slave
cylinders or
-> some other mod then I strongly recommend you take off the right-side
brake
-> interconnect bar. Immediately.
->
-> Pictures are available amongst various builders. Perhaps Murphy is
working
-> on a service bulletin? Anyone know?
->
-> Ted
->
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
-> thtonner@mymts.net
-> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 7:28 PM
-> To: Murphy Mailing list
-> Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Moose engine choice
->
->
-> Can anyone share a little more information on the right side brake
safety
-> concern. I own a SR2500. this is the first I heard of it and would
like to
-> know what the issue is, how to resolve, etc.
->
-> Thanks,
-> Tom Tonner
->
-> > From: ted@vafm.org
-> > To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
-> > Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Moose engine choice
-> > Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 10:15:47 -0700
-> >
-> > Hello Rick,
-> >
-> > I have 400+ hours on an M-14P Moose operating at 5,000' in the
Denver
-> area.
-> > No problems with gross weight takeoffs even on very warm days.
Cruise is
-> > 120 mph at 15.5gph. Anyone that advertises faster cruise than that
is full
-> > of !@#@%. I've flown side-by-side with another Moose w/ M-14 and
confirmed
-> > speed/gph. Climb perf is about 600 to 800 fpm at medium weight on
maybe 60
-> > to 70 degree day at my altitude. I've had it up to 16,500' several
times
-> > and it's still able to climb.
-> >
-> > O-540's are definitely faster by far.
-> >
-> > M-14P's are sexy engines. Parts are easy to get and far, FAR less
-> expensive
-> > than O-540. One can get an M-14P (overhauled one) for low $20k and
new one
-> > for $25K+ if you look around. To my knowledge, O-540's are way
more
-> > expensive than that.
-> >
-> > MAM never released a service bulletin on the huge safety problem
of the
-> > right-brake interconnect. Go figure. I just took my interconnect
bar
-> > off/out. Other builders have done a variety of mods to enable
right-side
-> > brakes (Cessna mod, custom, etc). I don't miss not having
right-side
-> brakes
-> > at all.
-> >
-> > Ted
-> >
-> > -----Original Message-----
-> > From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf
Of Rick
-> > Byers
-> > Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 5:35 AM
-> > To: Rebel Builders Group
-> > Subject: [rebel-builders] Moose engine choice
-> >
-> > Hi All,
-> >
-> > I'm new to the email group. I started a Super Rebel a few years
ago,
-> > purchased the Moose Upgrade and had some down time from the
building
-> > process. Plan to start up again soon and am still undecided on the
M14-P
-> or
-> > O-540 engine.
-> > MAM has told me that I can complete the fuselage and that the
Firewall
-> will
-> > be built the same up to the engine mounting.
-> >
-> > I was hoping to get some feedback from anyone flying Moose with
O-540's
-> and
-> > M14's on the pros and cons of each. I've read about the
peculiarities of
-> the
-> > M14 series engines as far as how they differ from the Opposed
Engines for
-> > ground operations. I guess what I'm looking for is the actual
performance
-> > numbers: Rate of climb, cruise speed, fuel burn. I've seen the
advertised
-> > numbers but was just looking for some confirmation.
-> >
-> > I currently fly a C-120 out of Bisbee, AZ where the field
elevation is
-> 4780
-> > ft. and it's not uncommon to have density altitudes over 8000 ft.
in the
-> > warm months. Some days I'm lucky to see 100 fpm climb rate. This
is where
-> > I'm wondering about the O-540 with a gross wt airplane.
-> >
-> > I've read about a Moose accident where a brake over centered and
locked
-> up.
-> > MAM hasn't responded to my question on that subject yet. Saw some
posts by
-> > builders who didn't install the RH side brake mechanism. Is it
standard
-> > practice to not install the right seat slave hardware?
-> >
-> > Thank you.
-> > Any answers& help is greatly appreciated.
-> >
-> > Rick Byers
-> > Hereford, AZ
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
->
->
->
->
-> -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
-> username "rebel" password "builder"
-> Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> -----------------------------------------------------------------
->
->
->




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_____

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1191 / Virus Database: 1435/3375 - Release Date: 01/12/11





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Hey Keith!
Nice to hear from you! I've missed seeing you and your family at OSH the last couple of years. I hope all is well.
Curt Martin










-----Original Message-----
From: montanafloat <keith@montanafloat.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Sent: Wed, Jan 12, 2011 12:38 pm
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Moose/Super Rebel brake issue


The issue with the dual brakes is a adjustment problem not really a design
ssue.
What causes it is the slave link from the petal to the horizontal shaft. If
he slave rod conector ( the ears that the slave link connects to ) on
ither side on the horizontal rudder shaft becomes vertical with full rudder
nd brake applied, it can go over center instead of returning to its
riginal position and you will have full rudder and no way to get it back,
lso you will have no brake.
The adjustment on the rudder and brake petals takes some fine tuning on the
justments to get rudder and brake travel correct with out the danger of
oing over center.
As I have said before I don't normally add to these threads but I have had
airplanes (Mooses) do this and feel it is something to be aware of.
Fortunately both of them were on the ground and the problem was discovered
efore flight.
Keith Kinden

_____
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
. O'Shea
ent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 6:05 PM
o: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
ubject: Re: [rebel-builders] Moose/Super Rebel brake issue

I think everyone here would love to see your Mod Roger so pics in the
rchives would be great. I've had two Elites and a Rebel through here with
ual brakes and I've done everything under the sun and couldn't make them
ock up. Maybe the Moose is a tad different???
----- Original Message -----
rom: "Bill Maxwell" <wrmaxwell@bigpond.com>
o: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
ent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 7:41 PM
ubject: Re: [rebel-builders] Moose/Super Rebel brake issue

I would be interested, please roger.

Bill

On 12/01/2011 11:17 AM, rogerk@dcsol.com wrote:

hi Tom and Ted

For what it's worth, I managed to fix this permanently with a 1/2" piece
of mild steel about an inch and a half long. No chance of over
centering
mine now. I can take a photo if you're interested.

Roger K

On 1/10/2011 7:22 PM, ted@vafm.org wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Tom,
->
-> In brief: The manner in which the brakes are mounted to the floor, in
-> combination with the design of the right-side brake interconnect bar,
can,
-> if the brake mounts are off just slightly, cause an unrecoverable (in
-> flight/taxi) pedal lock up. Full L or full R rudder coupled with
full brake
-> can cause the brake linkage to go over-center, thereby locking the
pedals
-> up. Several builders have experienced this while taxiing and were
able to
-> stop and, using a tool (e.g. long screwdriver, pry bar) unlock the
pedal.
->
-> One builder with approx 60 hours on his plane ground-looped it on
-> landing/takeoff (can't remember which) resulting in totaling the
plane and
-> having the gear leg break off and come up thru the floor severely
cutting
-> the pilot's leg.
->
-> This is a SERIOUS issue. If you don't have dual master/slave
cylinders or
-> some other mod then I strongly recommend you take off the right-side
brake
-> interconnect bar. Immediately.
->
-> Pictures are available amongst various builders. Perhaps Murphy is
working
-> on a service bulletin? Anyone know?
->
-> Ted
->
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
-> thtonner@mymts.net
-> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 7:28 PM
-> To: Murphy Mailing list
-> Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Moose engine choice
->
->
-> Can anyone share a little more information on the right side brake
safety
-> concern. I own a SR2500. this is the first I heard of it and would
like to
-> know what the issue is, how to resolve, etc.
->
-> Thanks,
-> Tom Tonner
->
-> > From: ted@vafm.org
-> > To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
-> > Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Moose engine choice
-> > Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 10:15:47 -0700
-> >
-> > Hello Rick,
-> >
-> > I have 400+ hours on an M-14P Moose operating at 5,000' in the
Denver
-> area.
-> > No problems with gross weight takeoffs even on very warm days.
Cruise is
-> > 120 mph at 15.5gph. Anyone that advertises faster cruise than that
is full
-> > of !@#@%. I've flown side-by-side with another Moose w/ M-14 and
confirmed
-> > speed/gph. Climb perf is about 600 to 800 fpm at medium weight on
maybe 60
-> > to 70 degree day at my altitude. I've had it up to 16,500' several
times
-> > and it's still able to climb.
-> >
-> > O-540's are definitely faster by far.
-> >
-> > M-14P's are sexy engines. Parts are easy to get and far, FAR less
-> expensive
-> > than O-540. One can get an M-14P (overhauled one) for low $20k and
new one
-> > for $25K+ if you look around. To my knowledge, O-540's are way
more
-> > expensive than that.
-> >
-> > MAM never released a service bulletin on the huge safety problem
of the
-> > right-brake interconnect. Go figure. I just took my interconnect
bar
-> > off/out. Other builders have done a variety of mods to enable
right-side
-> > brakes (Cessna mod, custom, etc). I don't miss not having
right-side
-> brakes
-> > at all.
-> >
-> > Ted
-> >
-> > -----Original Message-----
-> > From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf
Of Rick
-> > Byers
-> > Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 5:35 AM
-> > To: Rebel Builders Group
-> > Subject: [rebel-builders] Moose engine choice
-> >
-> > Hi All,
-> >
-> > I'm new to the email group. I started a Super Rebel a few years
ago,
-> > purchased the Moose Upgrade and had some down time from the
building
-> > process. Plan to start up again soon and am still undecided on the
M14-P
-> or
-> > O-540 engine.
-> > MAM has told me that I can complete the fuselage and that the
Firewall
-> will
-> > be built the same up to the engine mounting.
-> >
-> > I was hoping to get some feedback from anyone flying Moose with
O-540's
-> and
-> > M14's on the pros and cons of each. I've read about the
peculiarities of
-> the
-> > M14 series engines as far as how they differ from the Opposed
Engines for
-> > ground operations. I guess what I'm looking for is the actual
performance
-> > numbers: Rate of climb, cruise speed, fuel burn. I've seen the
advertised
-> > numbers but was just looking for some confirmation.
-> >
-> > I currently fly a C-120 out of Bisbee, AZ where the field
elevation is
-> 4780
-> > ft. and it's not uncommon to have density altitudes over 8000 ft.
in the
-> > warm months. Some days I'm lucky to see 100 fpm climb rate. This
is where
-> > I'm wondering about the O-540 with a gross wt airplane.
-> >
-> > I've read about a Moose accident where a brake over centered and
locked
-> up.
-> > MAM hasn't responded to my question on that subject yet. Saw some
posts by
-> > builders who didn't install the RH side brake mechanism. Is it
standard
-> > practice to not install the right seat slave hardware?
-> >
-> > Thank you.
-> > Any answers& help is greatly appreciated.
-> >
-> > Rick Byers
-> > Hereford, AZ
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
->
->
->
->
-> -----------------------------------------------------------------
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-> username "rebel" password "builder"
-> Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
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-> -----------------------------------------------------------------
->
->
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Hi Keith,
Rebflyer@aol.com
Curt Martin






-----Original Message-----
From: montanafloat <keith@montanafloat.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Sent: Fri, Jan 14, 2011 4:15 pm
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Moose/Super Rebel brake issue


Hi Kurt
Give me a email address for you.
Keith

_____
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
ebflyer@aol.com
ent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 5:17 PM
o: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
ubject: Re: [rebel-builders] Moose/Super Rebel brake issue


Hey Keith!
Nice to hear from you! I've missed seeing you and your family at OSH the
ast couple of years. I hope all is well.
Curt Martin





----Original Message-----
rom: montanafloat <keith@montanafloat.com>
o: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
ent: Wed, Jan 12, 2011 12:38 pm
ubject: RE: [rebel-builders] Moose/Super Rebel brake issue

he issue with the dual brakes is a adjustment problem not really a design
sue.
hat causes it is the slave link from the petal to the horizontal shaft. If
e slave rod conector ( the ears that the slave link connects to ) on
ther side on the horizontal rudder shaft becomes vertical with full rudder
d brake applied, it can go over center instead of returning to its
iginal position and you will have full rudder and no way to get it back,
so you will have no brake.
he adjustment on the rudder and brake petals takes some fine tuning on the
ustments to get rudder and brake travel correct with out the danger of
ing over center.
As I have said before I don't normally add to these threads but I have had
airplanes (Mooses) do this and feel it is something to be aware of.
ortunately both of them were on the ground and the problem was discovered
fore flight.
eith Kinden
_____
rom: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
O'Shea
nt: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 6:05 PM
: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
bject: Re: [rebel-builders] Moose/Super Rebel brake issue
I think everyone here would love to see your Mod Roger so pics in the
chives would be great. I've had two Elites and a Rebel through here with
al brakes and I've done everything under the sun and couldn't make them
ck up. Maybe the Moose is a tad different???
---- Original Message -----
om: "Bill Maxwell" <wrmaxwell@bigpond.com>
: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
nt: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 7:41 PM
bject: Re: [rebel-builders] Moose/Super Rebel brake issue
I would be interested, please roger.
Bill
On 12/01/2011 11:17 AM, rogerk@dcsol.com wrote:
hi Tom and Ted

For what it's worth, I managed to fix this permanently with a 1/2" piece
of mild steel about an inch and a half long. No chance of over
centering
mine now. I can take a photo if you're interested.

Roger K

On 1/10/2011 7:22 PM, ted@vafm.org wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Tom,
->
-> In brief: The manner in which the brakes are mounted to the floor, in
-> combination with the design of the right-side brake interconnect bar,
can,
-> if the brake mounts are off just slightly, cause an unrecoverable (in
-> flight/taxi) pedal lock up. Full L or full R rudder coupled with
full brake
-> can cause the brake linkage to go over-center, thereby locking the
pedals
-> up. Several builders have experienced this while taxiing and were
able to
-> stop and, using a tool (e.g. long screwdriver, pry bar) unlock the
pedal.
->
-> One builder with approx 60 hours on his plane ground-looped it on
-> landing/takeoff (can't remember which) resulting in totaling the
plane and
-> having the gear leg break off and come up thru the floor severely
cutting
-> the pilot's leg.
->
-> This is a SERIOUS issue. If you don't have dual master/slave
cylinders or
-> some other mod then I strongly recommend you take off the right-side
brake
-> interconnect bar. Immediately.
->
-> Pictures are available amongst various builders. Perhaps Murphy is
working
-> on a service bulletin? Anyone know?
->
-> Ted
->
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
-> thtonner@mymts.net
-> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 7:28 PM
-> To: Murphy Mailing list
-> Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Moose engine choice
->
->
-> Can anyone share a little more information on the right side brake
safety
-> concern. I own a SR2500. this is the first I heard of it and would
like to
-> know what the issue is, how to resolve, etc.
->
-> Thanks,
-> Tom Tonner
->
-> > From: ted@vafm.org
-> > To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
-> > Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Moose engine choice
-> > Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 10:15:47 -0700
-> >
-> > Hello Rick,
-> >
-> > I have 400+ hours on an M-14P Moose operating at 5,000' in the
Denver
-> area.
-> > No problems with gross weight takeoffs even on very warm days.
Cruise is
-> > 120 mph at 15.5gph. Anyone that advertises faster cruise than that
is full
-> > of !@#@%. I've flown side-by-side with another Moose w/ M-14 and
confirmed
-> > speed/gph. Climb perf is about 600 to 800 fpm at medium weight on
maybe 60
-> > to 70 degree day at my altitude. I've had it up to 16,500' several
times
-> > and it's still able to climb.
-> >
-> > O-540's are definitely faster by far.
-> >
-> > M-14P's are sexy engines. Parts are easy to get and far, FAR less
-> expensive
-> > than O-540. One can get an M-14P (overhauled one) for low $20k and
new one
-> > for $25K+ if you look around. To my knowledge, O-540's are way
more
-> > expensive than that.
-> >
-> > MAM never released a service bulletin on the huge safety problem
of the
-> > right-brake interconnect. Go figure. I just took my interconnect
bar
-> > off/out. Other builders have done a variety of mods to enable
right-side
-> > brakes (Cessna mod, custom, etc). I don't miss not having
right-side
-> brakes
-> > at all.
-> >
-> > Ted
-> >
-> > -----Original Message-----
-> > From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf
Of Rick
-> > Byers
-> > Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 5:35 AM
-> > To: Rebel Builders Group
-> > Subject: [rebel-builders] Moose engine choice
-> >
-> > Hi All,
-> >
-> > I'm new to the email group. I started a Super Rebel a few years
ago,
-> > purchased the Moose Upgrade and had some down time from the
building
-> > process. Plan to start up again soon and am still undecided on the
M14-P
-> or
-> > O-540 engine.
-> > MAM has told me that I can complete the fuselage and that the
Firewall
-> will
-> > be built the same up to the engine mounting.
-> >
-> > I was hoping to get some feedback from anyone flying Moose with
O-540's
-> and
-> > M14's on the pros and cons of each. I've read about the
peculiarities of
-> the
-> > M14 series engines as far as how they differ from the Opposed
Engines for
-> > ground operations. I guess what I'm looking for is the actual
performance
-> > numbers: Rate of climb, cruise speed, fuel burn. I've seen the
advertised
-> > numbers but was just looking for some confirmation.
-> >
-> > I currently fly a C-120 out of Bisbee, AZ where the field
elevation is
-> 4780
-> > ft. and it's not uncommon to have density altitudes over 8000 ft.
in the
-> > warm months. Some days I'm lucky to see 100 fpm climb rate. This
is where
-> > I'm wondering about the O-540 with a gross wt airplane.
-> >
-> > I've read about a Moose accident where a brake over centered and
locked
-> up.
-> > MAM hasn't responded to my question on that subject yet. Saw some
posts by
-> > builders who didn't install the RH side brake mechanism. Is it
standard
-> > practice to not install the right seat slave hardware?
-> >
-> > Thank you.
-> > Any answers& help is greatly appreciated.
-> >
-> > Rick Byers
-> > Hereford, AZ
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
->
->
->
->
-> -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
-> username "rebel" password "builder"
-> Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> -----------------------------------------------------------------
->
->
->




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Keith, how you doing ?
Hope everything is fantastic in the new year for you.

Nancy
--------------------------------------------------
From: "montanafloat" <keith@montanafloat.com>
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 1:15 PM
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Moose/Super Rebel brake issue

Hi Kurt

Give me a email address for you.

Keith



_____

From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
rebflyer@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 5:17 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Moose/Super Rebel brake issue





Hey Keith!
Nice to hear from you! I've missed seeing you and your family at OSH the
last couple of years. I hope all is well.
Curt Martin










-----Original Message-----
From: montanafloat <keith@montanafloat.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Sent: Wed, Jan 12, 2011 12:38 pm
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Moose/Super Rebel brake issue


The issue with the dual brakes is a adjustment problem not really a design
ssue.
What causes it is the slave link from the petal to the horizontal shaft.
If
he slave rod conector ( the ears that the slave link connects to ) on
ither side on the horizontal rudder shaft becomes vertical with full
rudder
nd brake applied, it can go over center instead of returning to its
riginal position and you will have full rudder and no way to get it back,
lso you will have no brake.
The adjustment on the rudder and brake petals takes some fine tuning on
the
justments to get rudder and brake travel correct with out the danger of
oing over center.
As I have said before I don't normally add to these threads but I have had
airplanes (Mooses) do this and feel it is something to be aware of.
Fortunately both of them were on the ground and the problem was discovered
efore flight.
Keith Kinden

_____
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Wayne
. O'Shea
ent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 6:05 PM
o: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
ubject: Re: [rebel-builders] Moose/Super Rebel brake issue

I think everyone here would love to see your Mod Roger so pics in the
rchives would be great. I've had two Elites and a Rebel through here with
ual brakes and I've done everything under the sun and couldn't make them
ock up. Maybe the Moose is a tad different???
----- Original Message -----
rom: "Bill Maxwell" <wrmaxwell@bigpond.com>
o: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
ent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 7:41 PM
ubject: Re: [rebel-builders] Moose/Super Rebel brake issue

I would be interested, please roger.

Bill

On 12/01/2011 11:17 AM, rogerk@dcsol.com wrote:

hi Tom and Ted

For what it's worth, I managed to fix this permanently with a 1/2" piece
of mild steel about an inch and a half long. No chance of over
centering
mine now. I can take a photo if you're interested.

Roger K

On 1/10/2011 7:22 PM, ted@vafm.org wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Tom,
->
-> In brief: The manner in which the brakes are mounted to the floor, in
-> combination with the design of the right-side brake interconnect bar,
can,
-> if the brake mounts are off just slightly, cause an unrecoverable (in
-> flight/taxi) pedal lock up. Full L or full R rudder coupled with
full brake
-> can cause the brake linkage to go over-center, thereby locking the
pedals
-> up. Several builders have experienced this while taxiing and were
able to
-> stop and, using a tool (e.g. long screwdriver, pry bar) unlock the
pedal.
->
-> One builder with approx 60 hours on his plane ground-looped it on
-> landing/takeoff (can't remember which) resulting in totaling the
plane and
-> having the gear leg break off and come up thru the floor severely
cutting
-> the pilot's leg.
->
-> This is a SERIOUS issue. If you don't have dual master/slave
cylinders or
-> some other mod then I strongly recommend you take off the right-side
brake
-> interconnect bar. Immediately.
->
-> Pictures are available amongst various builders. Perhaps Murphy is
working
-> on a service bulletin? Anyone know?
->
-> Ted
->
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
-> thtonner@mymts.net
-> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 7:28 PM
-> To: Murphy Mailing list
-> Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Moose engine choice
->
->
-> Can anyone share a little more information on the right side brake
safety
-> concern. I own a SR2500. this is the first I heard of it and would
like to
-> know what the issue is, how to resolve, etc.
->
-> Thanks,
-> Tom Tonner
->
-> > From: ted@vafm.org
-> > To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
-> > Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Moose engine choice
-> > Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 10:15:47 -0700
-> >
-> > Hello Rick,
-> >
-> > I have 400+ hours on an M-14P Moose operating at 5,000' in the
Denver
-> area.
-> > No problems with gross weight takeoffs even on very warm days.
Cruise is
-> > 120 mph at 15.5gph. Anyone that advertises faster cruise than that
is full
-> > of !@#@%. I've flown side-by-side with another Moose w/ M-14 and
confirmed
-> > speed/gph. Climb perf is about 600 to 800 fpm at medium weight on
maybe 60
-> > to 70 degree day at my altitude. I've had it up to 16,500' several
times
-> > and it's still able to climb.
-> >
-> > O-540's are definitely faster by far.
-> >
-> > M-14P's are sexy engines. Parts are easy to get and far, FAR less
-> expensive
-> > than O-540. One can get an M-14P (overhauled one) for low $20k and
new one
-> > for $25K+ if you look around. To my knowledge, O-540's are way
more
-> > expensive than that.
-> >
-> > MAM never released a service bulletin on the huge safety problem
of the
-> > right-brake interconnect. Go figure. I just took my interconnect
bar
-> > off/out. Other builders have done a variety of mods to enable
right-side
-> > brakes (Cessna mod, custom, etc). I don't miss not having
right-side
-> brakes
-> > at all.
-> >
-> > Ted
-> >
-> > -----Original Message-----
-> > From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf
Of Rick
-> > Byers
-> > Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 5:35 AM
-> > To: Rebel Builders Group
-> > Subject: [rebel-builders] Moose engine choice
-> >
-> > Hi All,
-> >
-> > I'm new to the email group. I started a Super Rebel a few years
ago,
-> > purchased the Moose Upgrade and had some down time from the
building
-> > process. Plan to start up again soon and am still undecided on the
M14-P
-> or
-> > O-540 engine.
-> > MAM has told me that I can complete the fuselage and that the
Firewall
-> will
-> > be built the same up to the engine mounting.
-> >
-> > I was hoping to get some feedback from anyone flying Moose with
O-540's
-> and
-> > M14's on the pros and cons of each. I've read about the
peculiarities of
-> the
-> > M14 series engines as far as how they differ from the Opposed
Engines for
-> > ground operations. I guess what I'm looking for is the actual
performance
-> > numbers: Rate of climb, cruise speed, fuel burn. I've seen the
advertised
-> > numbers but was just looking for some confirmation.
-> >
-> > I currently fly a C-120 out of Bisbee, AZ where the field
elevation is
-> 4780
-> > ft. and it's not uncommon to have density altitudes over 8000 ft.
in the
-> > warm months. Some days I'm lucky to see 100 fpm climb rate. This
is where
-> > I'm wondering about the O-540 with a gross wt airplane.
-> >
-> > I've read about a Moose accident where a brake over centered and
locked
-> up.
-> > MAM hasn't responded to my question on that subject yet. Saw some
posts by
-> > builders who didn't install the RH side brake mechanism. Is it
standard
-> > practice to not install the right seat slave hardware?
-> >
-> > Thank you.
-> > Any answers& help is greatly appreciated.
-> >
-> > Rick Byers
-> > Hereford, AZ
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
->
->
->
->
-> -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
-> username "rebel" password "builder"
-> Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> -----------------------------------------------------------------
->
->
->




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