[Fwd: Re: landings]
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:39 pm
Not sure if this message made it to the list, but
my apologies if you get it twice.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: landings
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 18:23:55 -0800
From: Walter Klatt <Walter.Klatt@home.com>
Organization: @Home Network
To: " (Murphy Rebel Builders List)"
<murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Hi, Geert. No, I haven't updated my Stocks section
for awhile, but now that I'm not
flying, maybe I'll have some time for that, too.
Not to bore the rest of the list, but
let's just say that I'm a little more proficient
at stock trading than flying my Rebel at
this point. I can email you privately if you want
to talk more about this topic.
On the Rebel landings, I initially thought, too,
there was something wrong with the
airplane, but I got to fly it long enough so that
most of my landings were pretty good.
It just took a while to get that feel in the flare
when it's ready to land (stall) and
keep pulling back that stick until it fully
stalls. It does get that sudden sink when
it's ready to land, and if you're not ready for
it, the mains will touch early, which
gives you that taildragger bounce. My mistake
simply was not handling that bounce
properly.
C of G might have something to do with it, too. In
my case, I have a Lycoming O320 with
my battery mounted forward of the firewall, so I
know it is a little nose heavy, which
may make it harder to get that tail down early
enough in a 3 pointer. Not sure. I did
notice, though, that it was always much easier to
land with a passenger and lots of fuel,
which would move that C of G back a bit.
Also, I thought I heard somewhere, that the wing
angle of incidence was changed 1 degree
on the Elite. Maybe that would make it easier to
land, by lowering the tail more with the
same angle of attack. I could well be totally off
base on this one.
About the flaperons, I think mine actually work
very well and are very effective, unlike
what a lot of others have said about this subject.
I did spend some time ensuring maximum
travel, and took out some of the play in the
system. My stall speed and roll-out goes way
down with full flaps. They do get a little tricky
in a crosswind, though, as it doesn't
take much to pick up a wing on you.
I definitely don't have your experience, Geert,
but with some of the other planes I have
flown, I always had a bit of an adjustment period
until I got the feel of it. But then
they always felt comfortable after that. With the
Rebel, it is definitely more of a
challenge to land than any other airplane I've
flown, but I think I was almost there with
it, too.
In any case, I'm itching to get back out there.
Soon, I hope.
Geert Frank wrote:
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http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/contributors.htm
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http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/book_store.htm
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my apologies if you get it twice.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: landings
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 18:23:55 -0800
From: Walter Klatt <Walter.Klatt@home.com>
Organization: @Home Network
To: " (Murphy Rebel Builders List)"
<murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Hi, Geert. No, I haven't updated my Stocks section
for awhile, but now that I'm not
flying, maybe I'll have some time for that, too.
Not to bore the rest of the list, but
let's just say that I'm a little more proficient
at stock trading than flying my Rebel at
this point. I can email you privately if you want
to talk more about this topic.
On the Rebel landings, I initially thought, too,
there was something wrong with the
airplane, but I got to fly it long enough so that
most of my landings were pretty good.
It just took a while to get that feel in the flare
when it's ready to land (stall) and
keep pulling back that stick until it fully
stalls. It does get that sudden sink when
it's ready to land, and if you're not ready for
it, the mains will touch early, which
gives you that taildragger bounce. My mistake
simply was not handling that bounce
properly.
C of G might have something to do with it, too. In
my case, I have a Lycoming O320 with
my battery mounted forward of the firewall, so I
know it is a little nose heavy, which
may make it harder to get that tail down early
enough in a 3 pointer. Not sure. I did
notice, though, that it was always much easier to
land with a passenger and lots of fuel,
which would move that C of G back a bit.
Also, I thought I heard somewhere, that the wing
angle of incidence was changed 1 degree
on the Elite. Maybe that would make it easier to
land, by lowering the tail more with the
same angle of attack. I could well be totally off
base on this one.
About the flaperons, I think mine actually work
very well and are very effective, unlike
what a lot of others have said about this subject.
I did spend some time ensuring maximum
travel, and took out some of the play in the
system. My stall speed and roll-out goes way
down with full flaps. They do get a little tricky
in a crosswind, though, as it doesn't
take much to pick up a wing on you.
I definitely don't have your experience, Geert,
but with some of the other planes I have
flown, I always had a bit of an adjustment period
until I got the feel of it. But then
they always felt comfortable after that. With the
Rebel, it is definitely more of a
challenge to land than any other airplane I've
flown, but I think I was almost there with
it, too.
In any case, I'm itching to get back out there.
Soon, I hope.
Geert Frank wrote:
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*Hi Walter Klatt, that is some website you've got there. All those pictures.
Wow. As for your stock recommendations, did you forget to update or are you
still recommending high-tech stock? Reason I aks is that the guy that is
supposed to look after me, since tracking stocks/bonds bore me to death,
shoved 50% of my IRA into MSDW Information B fund very heavy into hightech
stocks MARCH 2000! Yup, I lost close to US $100 K before I "parked" on my
own initiative into the 6% money funds, I think this guy was going to take
me down all the way to zero. Brrrr. Changing the subject:
I think it is time that you stop blaming yourself for bad three point and
full stall landings in your Rebel, because of your lack of experience. I
have owned and flown taildraggers from DC-3's( which by the way is 99.9% of
the time wheel landed), Tiger Moths, Harvards, An-2's, all Piper and Cessna
taildraggers, Wilgas, Pilatus Porters etc. etc. BUT, I cannot
three-point-land my little Rebel. Would you like me to repeat that a few
times? Now I have pointed this out before. The three point landings vary
from a minor bounce to a high bounce. I have pointed out that the thing
floats when crossing the fence at 55 to 60 mph. I do not know what causes
this, it cannot be all me, not because I am so good, but nothing like this
was ever a problem with the above listed taildraggers. Now I have had the
most experienced Rebel pilot fly my machine and he made a few landings
getting the Rebel to New Hampshire. I am of course talking about bobp. He is
a great guy, but is so taken by the machine he sells, that he cannot step
back and be a little critical. That is a great attitude for a guy that sells
the Rebel, I repeat, but does not do me much good for evaluation purposes.
All the while I am still scratching my head about this strange aileron
control of my machine and that of the man in Southern Maine. bobp's
recommendation about that one: "go back to flaperons". However, the man in
Maine started out with flaperons and he and the other guys that flew his
machine went crazy. There is something going on here and we will have to
get to the bottom of it. I suspect, that by coincidence, your Rebel and
mine and I am sure a few others belonging to the "silent majority", have an
aerodynamical quirk or maybe a building-error in common and this time in the
longitudinal axis that creates this crazy landing problem. I would not even
know where to begin to look. We better find the problem, if not, you will
have to keep on repairing your machine and I can look forward to a similar
landing gear failure as you suffered. The factory? They either don't have a
clue either or are so fear struck by this liability factor, that they will
not give out any info. I am sorry to get on the soapbox over this matter,
but again, I think you should stop shouldering all the blame. We all do not
make a perfect landing each and every time (only exception, are you ready?
The 747!), but never being able to make a decent landing? Maybe, just maybe,
the cause lies elsewhere? Regards, Geert.
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Contributors' page at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/contributors.htm
Visit the book store at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/book_store.htm
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/archives.htm
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Contributors' page at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/contributors.htm
Visit the book store at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/book_store.htm
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/archives.htm
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
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