[rebel-builders]Rebel rudder elevator bushings
Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:34 pm
Does anyone know if the rudder and h-stab/elevator hinge brackets are the
same on the Moose as on the Rebel? I suspect so but would appreciate
confirmation.
I'm having a set of prototype hinge/brackets made now. I will post pictures
and prices of these upgraded hinge/brackets at some point later in January.
They will be out of 2024 T3 with a sealed, pressed bearing. More info to
come after I get the prototypes made and see what the cost might be based on
various order quantities.
Thanks,
Ted Waltman
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
schaumr@dcsol.com
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2011 9:33 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] rudder elevator bushings
Happy New Year Everyone,
I've been researching the use of bushings/bearings at the lower rudder
bracket, and the inboard and outboard elevator brackets based on Ken's (and
others) posts. Consensus seems to be that bronze bushings at these
locations
will reduce the possibility of hole elongation, which has been reported with
the
currently MAM-supplied stainless steel 1/4 I.D. 3/8 O.D. units (albeit only
after
hundreds of hours on the airframe, it seems).
The Rebel files have nice photos of what appears to be MAM-supplied bronze
aileron bushings with an inside diameter of 3/8" to accommodate the
aforementioned SS bushings. These appear to have 1" (or greater) flange
diameters and allow the single rivet attach to the brackets to prevent their
rotation. I can't find these anywhere on the web...have folks been
successful
in obtaining these from MAM recently?
Alternatively, one could use the more readily available "small flange"
oilite
bushings, but their narrower flanges make it difficult (impossible?) to
permanently affix to the attach brackets to prevent the bushing from
rotating
in its hole.
Aside from aiming for a good interference fit (I assume loc-tite won't work
on
an oillite bushing) what have others done here?
Rob
R786
Old Saybrook, CT
On 12/27/2010 9:20 AM, klehman@albedo.net wrote to rebel-builders:
-> You probably have enough to do today with all that snow but it sounds
-> like you might have to make a new rudder horn.
->
-> Could you maybe move the bottom rudder hinge point rearward? It really
-> should have a bushing or bearing there anyway. Any wear will move the
-> rudder forward and reduce rudder travel even more.
->
-> I suppose you could also consider riveting or bolting a second U shaped
-> rudder horn to the existing one. (U shaped so it does not interfere with
-> the pivot) That would add a bit of strength. The issue is the downward
-> pull from the steering springs trying to bend the horn downward AFAIK.
->
-> Ken
->
-> schaumr@dcsol.com wrote:
-> > Ken (All),
-> >
-> > Agree I wouldn't touch the TS-001..really just meant filing the
horn(s).
Your
-> > comment regarding the stresses the rudder horn gets on the ground was
-> > precisely the reason I was reluctant to file that, but it appears less
than
5%
-> > seems ot be O.K. (at least in Ken's case), but I will likely need more.
-> >
-> > Rob
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > On 12/27/2010 4:55 AM, klehman@albedo.net wrote to rebel-builders:
-> >
-> > -> Everyone I've talked to with a Lycoming or similar engine would
seem to
-> > -> be quite happy with 15* down elevator. That is all I have now after
-> > -> adjusting for maximum up travel. OTOH I'd probably stick with the
-> > -> factory recommendations with a light rotax or tail heavy airplane
unless
-> > -> a few guys with that situation can confirm stall recovery
performance.
-> > ->
-> > -> I would not be brave enough to file the TS-1. It already seems on
the
-> > -> light side to me considering it holds the stabilizer on and takes a
-> > -> beating from the tailwheel spring. Never heard of one breaking
though. I
-> > -> did file a tiny bit of my rudder control horn (less than 5%) but
don't
-> > -> know if anyone can answer that question. I can say that I use every
bit
-> > -> of my rudder travel and would not want to give up any of it. The
rudder
-> > -> horn gets stressed pretty good when stomping on the brakes or in
tight
-> > -> turns on soft ground and I believe there is a report or two of it
-> > -> breaking in that situation.
-> > ->
-> > -> Mike - My tailwheel springs were on the same bolts as the rudder
cable.
-> > -> I think most Rebels are the same in order to get maximum steering
and
-> > -> swivel release.
-> > ->
-> > -> Ken
-> > ->
-> > -> schaumr@dcsol.com wrote:
-> > -> > Hello Everyone,
-> > -> >
-> > -> > While installing my right elevator, and checking for 25 degrees
down (up
-> > is no
-> > -> > issue) as per the manual, the elevator horn is making contact with
the
-> > -> > stabilizer spar, and limits movement to only 15 degrees down.
Before
-> > filing
-> > -> > anything off, I thought I'd ask if anyone else has run into this,
since
I'm
-> > not
-> > -> > even sure one actually needs more than 15 degrees down.....
-> > -> >
-> > -> > I have a similar situation with the rudder, in that the horn
itself was
-> > installed
-> > -> > somewhat asymmetrically. As a result, one side hits the 'stop'
bolt
as
-> > per
-> > -> > plans, the other contacts the TS001 fitting (the way it used to
be, I
-> > believe,
-> > -> > before the stop bolts were introduced). I was going to follow
others
-> > and add
-> > -> > the "L-angle stop" under the stop bolt, but again, I am
doublechecking
-> > that
-> > -> > the option of filing down the horn to clear the TS001 is truly off
the
-> > table.
-> > -> >
-> > -> > Thanks in advance...hope everyone is enjoying the break.
-> > -> > I'm at the inlaws in Montreal until new year's day. Ugh :(
-> > -> > ....I'd rather be building.
-> > -> >
-> > -> > ....anyone got a project in the Montreal area I can visit/talk
shop
with?
-> > Jean
-> > -> > Poirier is already flying isn't he?
-> > -> >
-> > -> > Rob
-> > -> > Rebel 786
-> > -> > Old Saybrook, CT
-> > -> >
-> > -> >
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same on the Moose as on the Rebel? I suspect so but would appreciate
confirmation.
I'm having a set of prototype hinge/brackets made now. I will post pictures
and prices of these upgraded hinge/brackets at some point later in January.
They will be out of 2024 T3 with a sealed, pressed bearing. More info to
come after I get the prototypes made and see what the cost might be based on
various order quantities.
Thanks,
Ted Waltman
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
schaumr@dcsol.com
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2011 9:33 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] rudder elevator bushings
Happy New Year Everyone,
I've been researching the use of bushings/bearings at the lower rudder
bracket, and the inboard and outboard elevator brackets based on Ken's (and
others) posts. Consensus seems to be that bronze bushings at these
locations
will reduce the possibility of hole elongation, which has been reported with
the
currently MAM-supplied stainless steel 1/4 I.D. 3/8 O.D. units (albeit only
after
hundreds of hours on the airframe, it seems).
The Rebel files have nice photos of what appears to be MAM-supplied bronze
aileron bushings with an inside diameter of 3/8" to accommodate the
aforementioned SS bushings. These appear to have 1" (or greater) flange
diameters and allow the single rivet attach to the brackets to prevent their
rotation. I can't find these anywhere on the web...have folks been
successful
in obtaining these from MAM recently?
Alternatively, one could use the more readily available "small flange"
oilite
bushings, but their narrower flanges make it difficult (impossible?) to
permanently affix to the attach brackets to prevent the bushing from
rotating
in its hole.
Aside from aiming for a good interference fit (I assume loc-tite won't work
on
an oillite bushing) what have others done here?
Rob
R786
Old Saybrook, CT
On 12/27/2010 9:20 AM, klehman@albedo.net wrote to rebel-builders:
-> You probably have enough to do today with all that snow but it sounds
-> like you might have to make a new rudder horn.
->
-> Could you maybe move the bottom rudder hinge point rearward? It really
-> should have a bushing or bearing there anyway. Any wear will move the
-> rudder forward and reduce rudder travel even more.
->
-> I suppose you could also consider riveting or bolting a second U shaped
-> rudder horn to the existing one. (U shaped so it does not interfere with
-> the pivot) That would add a bit of strength. The issue is the downward
-> pull from the steering springs trying to bend the horn downward AFAIK.
->
-> Ken
->
-> schaumr@dcsol.com wrote:
-> > Ken (All),
-> >
-> > Agree I wouldn't touch the TS-001..really just meant filing the
horn(s).
Your
-> > comment regarding the stresses the rudder horn gets on the ground was
-> > precisely the reason I was reluctant to file that, but it appears less
than
5%
-> > seems ot be O.K. (at least in Ken's case), but I will likely need more.
-> >
-> > Rob
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > On 12/27/2010 4:55 AM, klehman@albedo.net wrote to rebel-builders:
-> >
-> > -> Everyone I've talked to with a Lycoming or similar engine would
seem to
-> > -> be quite happy with 15* down elevator. That is all I have now after
-> > -> adjusting for maximum up travel. OTOH I'd probably stick with the
-> > -> factory recommendations with a light rotax or tail heavy airplane
unless
-> > -> a few guys with that situation can confirm stall recovery
performance.
-> > ->
-> > -> I would not be brave enough to file the TS-1. It already seems on
the
-> > -> light side to me considering it holds the stabilizer on and takes a
-> > -> beating from the tailwheel spring. Never heard of one breaking
though. I
-> > -> did file a tiny bit of my rudder control horn (less than 5%) but
don't
-> > -> know if anyone can answer that question. I can say that I use every
bit
-> > -> of my rudder travel and would not want to give up any of it. The
rudder
-> > -> horn gets stressed pretty good when stomping on the brakes or in
tight
-> > -> turns on soft ground and I believe there is a report or two of it
-> > -> breaking in that situation.
-> > ->
-> > -> Mike - My tailwheel springs were on the same bolts as the rudder
cable.
-> > -> I think most Rebels are the same in order to get maximum steering
and
-> > -> swivel release.
-> > ->
-> > -> Ken
-> > ->
-> > -> schaumr@dcsol.com wrote:
-> > -> > Hello Everyone,
-> > -> >
-> > -> > While installing my right elevator, and checking for 25 degrees
down (up
-> > is no
-> > -> > issue) as per the manual, the elevator horn is making contact with
the
-> > -> > stabilizer spar, and limits movement to only 15 degrees down.
Before
-> > filing
-> > -> > anything off, I thought I'd ask if anyone else has run into this,
since
I'm
-> > not
-> > -> > even sure one actually needs more than 15 degrees down.....
-> > -> >
-> > -> > I have a similar situation with the rudder, in that the horn
itself was
-> > installed
-> > -> > somewhat asymmetrically. As a result, one side hits the 'stop'
bolt
as
-> > per
-> > -> > plans, the other contacts the TS001 fitting (the way it used to
be, I
-> > believe,
-> > -> > before the stop bolts were introduced). I was going to follow
others
-> > and add
-> > -> > the "L-angle stop" under the stop bolt, but again, I am
doublechecking
-> > that
-> > -> > the option of filing down the horn to clear the TS001 is truly off
the
-> > table.
-> > -> >
-> > -> > Thanks in advance...hope everyone is enjoying the break.
-> > -> > I'm at the inlaws in Montreal until new year's day. Ugh :(
-> > -> > ....I'd rather be building.
-> > -> >
-> > -> > ....anyone got a project in the Montreal area I can visit/talk
shop
with?
-> > Jean
-> > -> > Poirier is already flying isn't he?
-> > -> >
-> > -> > Rob
-> > -> > Rebel 786
-> > -> > Old Saybrook, CT
-> > -> >
-> > -> >
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