The Murphy Builders Site

Marc you say Lycoming B2C for your Rebel I assume a 4 cyl.

About 5 years ago I contacted Murphy. Nancy sent me photos of the only two
mounts that they market.
Most if not all of the smaller (4) cyl engines have the four mount lugs cast
into the case of the engine (non removable). As I understand "Conical engine
mount"
Most of the bigger engines(6) cyl have four bolt on lugs attached to the
engine case with 4 studs. Commonly called "Dynafocal" mount's
There are 2 types of lugs out their:
Cessna uses the one with a 18* merging angle. That is to say
they all point to the front of the engine at approximately the prop flange.
Piper uses a 30* lug which merges at about the center of the
crankshaft.

I hope this clears things up or all of you builders!

OK; so Murphy uses the 30* Dynafocal Motor mount configuration. One is
referred to as a "A", the other is a "B" configuration. The Lord rubber
mounts are not interchangeable.
The P.N. for use with Murphy 30* system Mounts J-3804-20 from PA-23-250
PA-24's PA-25's, and a few others.


SO if your problem is that you can not use the Murphy engine mount with your
O-540 all you have to do is buy new mount lugs from Lycoming for a few
thousand $$ (an expensive option).
Or modify the mount to fit your 18* engine (not a good option).
Third and best choice was to use the lead that Nancy Puff gave me.
For the cost of freight only, Aero Sport Power in Canada, about 50 miles
away from the Murphy factory. They had a need for the used but not abused
18* mount lugs and were willing to exchange certified 30* parts with me,
great people to deal with.

Dick Wampach SR-108 N331RW



-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 3:05 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com; rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] Conical engine mount


-------- Forwarded Message ---------
Original: DATE..... 12/17/2010 6:52 AM
Original: FROM..... Marc van Hulzen

Thanks Dick for your reaction.

I was not complete with the information, sorry for that.
It's an O-320 B2C 160hp engine.

The lugs are indeed cast into the engine case.

Marc

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] Namens Dick Wampach
Verzonden: zaterdag 18 december 2010 3:42
Aan: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
CC: Nancy Puff
Onderwerp: RE: [rebel-builders] Conical engine mount

Marc you say Lycoming B2C for your Rebel I assume a 4 cyl.

About 5 years ago I contacted Murphy. Nancy sent me photos of the only two
mounts that they market.
Most if not all of the smaller (4) cyl engines have the four mount lugs cast
into the case of the engine (non removable). As I understand "Conical engine
mount"
Most of the bigger engines(6) cyl have four bolt on lugs attached to the
engine case with 4 studs. Commonly called "Dynafocal" mount's
There are 2 types of lugs out their:
Cessna uses the one with a 18* merging angle. That is to say
they all point to the front of the engine at approximately the prop flange.
Piper uses a 30* lug which merges at about the center of the
crankshaft.

I hope this clears things up or all of you builders!

OK; so Murphy uses the 30* Dynafocal Motor mount configuration. One is
referred to as a "A", the other is a "B" configuration. The Lord rubber
mounts are not interchangeable.
The P.N. for use with Murphy 30* system Mounts J-3804-20 from PA-23-250
PA-24's PA-25's, and a few others.


SO if your problem is that you can not use the Murphy engine mount with your
O-540 all you have to do is buy new mount lugs from Lycoming for a few
thousand $$ (an expensive option).
Or modify the mount to fit your 18* engine (not a good option).
Third and best choice was to use the lead that Nancy Puff gave me.
For the cost of freight only, Aero Sport Power in Canada, about 50 miles
away from the Murphy factory. They had a need for the used but not abused
18* mount lugs and were willing to exchange certified 30* parts with me,
great people to deal with.

Dick Wampach SR-108 N331RW



-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 3:05 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com; rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] Conical engine mount


-------- Forwarded Message ---------
Original: DATE..... 12/17/2010 6:52 AM
Original: FROM..... Marc van Hulzen

Dick

I'm a bit confused by your description of the 4 cyl mount. I have just
received a mount (and a cowling, maybe more about that later) from MAM
for the Elite project, on the invoice it's listed as a Dynafocal mount
not Conical as I read your message to say. Am I understanding your what
your wrote correctly?

Now, a question of my own, the mount we just received has a small (about
1/16 - 1/8" dia) hole/gap in the weld between the support tubing and the
ring which accepts the lord mount. The hole looks to be intentional as
it is there on all 4 rings, any thoughts as to the reason? FWIW, The
mount is powder coated.

Cheers,

Dave

PS. After ordering a cowling, engine mount and window rings in January
2010, they arrived this week.



On 12/17/2010 10:42 PM, Dick Wampach wrote:
[quote]Marc you say Lycoming B2C for your Rebel I assume a 4 cyl.

About 5 years ago I contacted Murphy. Nancy sent me photos of the only two
mounts that they market.
Most if not all of the smaller (4) cyl engines have the four mount lugs cast
into the case of the engine (non removable). As I understand "Conical engine
mount"
Most of the bigger engines(6) cyl have four bolt on lugs attached to the
engine case with 4 studs. Commonly called "Dynafocal" mount's
There are 2 types of lugs out their:
Cessna uses the one with a 18* merging angle. That is to say
they all point to the front of the engine at approximately the prop flange.
Piper uses a 30* lug which merges at about the center of the
crankshaft.

I hope this clears things up or all of you builders!

OK; so Murphy uses the 30* Dynafocal Motor mount configuration. One is
referred to as a "A", the other is a "B" configuration. The Lord rubber
mounts are not interchangeable.
The P.N. for use with Murphy 30* system Mounts J-3804-20 from PA-23-250
PA-24's PA-25's, and a few others.


SO if your problem is that you can not use the Murphy engine mount with your
O-540 all you have to do is buy new mount lugs from Lycoming for a few
thousand $$ (an expensive option).
Or modify the mount to fit your 18* engine (not a good option).
Third and best choice was to use the lead that Nancy Puff gave me.
For the cost of freight only, Aero Sport Power in Canada, about 50 miles
away from the Murphy factory. They had a need for the used but not abused
18* mount lugs and were willing to exchange certified 30* parts with me,
great people to deal with.

Dick Wampach SR-108 N331RW



-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 3:05 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com; rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] Conical engine mount


-------- Forwarded Message ---------
Original: DATE..... 12/17/2010 6:52 AM
Original: FROM..... Marc van Hulzen

Those are vent holes for the weld process and we usually close them after
the mount is completely welded. Dick none of the 4 cyl. Lyc's have
detachable mounts. I hope this helps.
Si
Rebel N431SS & N572TA
----- Original Message -----
From: "David A. Ricker" <daricker@ns.sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2010 8:22 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Conical engine mount


[quote]Dick

I'm a bit confused by your description of the 4 cyl mount. I have just
received a mount (and a cowling, maybe more about that later) from MAM
for the Elite project, on the invoice it's listed as a Dynafocal mount
not Conical as I read your message to say. Am I understanding your what
your wrote correctly?

Now, a question of my own, the mount we just received has a small (about
1/16 - 1/8" dia) hole/gap in the weld between the support tubing and the
ring which accepts the lord mount. The hole looks to be intentional as
it is there on all 4 rings, any thoughts as to the reason? FWIW, The
mount is powder coated.

Cheers,

Dave

PS. After ordering a cowling, engine mount and window rings in January
2010, they arrived this week.



On 12/17/2010 10:42 PM, Dick Wampach wrote:
[quote]Marc you say Lycoming B2C for your Rebel I assume a 4 cyl.

About 5 years ago I contacted Murphy. Nancy sent me photos of the only
two
mounts that they market.
Most if not all of the smaller (4) cyl engines have the four mount lugs
cast
into the case of the engine (non removable). As I understand "Conical
engine
mount"
Most of the bigger engines(6) cyl have four bolt on lugs attached to the
engine case with 4 studs. Commonly called "Dynafocal" mount's
There are 2 types of lugs out their:
Cessna uses the one with a 18* merging angle. That is to say
they all point to the front of the engine at approximately the prop
flange.
Piper uses a 30* lug which merges at about the center of the
crankshaft.

I hope this clears things up or all of you builders!

OK; so Murphy uses the 30* Dynafocal Motor mount configuration. One is
referred to as a "A", the other is a "B" configuration. The Lord rubber
mounts are not interchangeable.
The P.N. for use with Murphy 30* system Mounts J-3804-20 from PA-23-250
PA-24's PA-25's, and a few others.


SO if your problem is that you can not use the Murphy engine mount with
your
O-540 all you have to do is buy new mount lugs from Lycoming for a few
thousand $$ (an expensive option).
Or modify the mount to fit your 18* engine (not a good option).
Third and best choice was to use the lead that Nancy Puff gave me.
For the cost of freight only, Aero Sport Power in Canada, about 50 miles
away from the Murphy factory. They had a need for the used but not
abused
18* mount lugs and were willing to exchange certified 30* parts with me,
great people to deal with.

Dick Wampach SR-108 N331RW



-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 3:05 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com; rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] Conical engine mount


-------- Forwarded Message ---------
Original: DATE..... 12/17/2010 6:52 AM
Original: FROM..... Marc van Hulzen

Hi Simon

That's about what I figured and I'm surprised that they were left open.
Perhaps that's a comment on process control?

From your experience is closing them a "must do"?

Cheers,

Dave


On 12/18/2010 11:20 AM, Simon Smith wrote:
[quote]Those are vent holes for the weld process and we usually close them after
the mount is completely welded. Dick none of the 4 cyl. Lyc's have
detachable mounts. I hope this helps.
Si
Rebel N431SS& N572TA
----- Original Message -----
From: "David A. Ricker"<daricker@ns.sympatico.ca>
To:<rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2010 8:22 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Conical engine mount



[quote]Dick

I'm a bit confused by your description of the 4 cyl mount. I have just
received a mount (and a cowling, maybe more about that later) from MAM
for the Elite project, on the invoice it's listed as a Dynafocal mount
not Conical as I read your message to say. Am I understanding your what
your wrote correctly?

Now, a question of my own, the mount we just received has a small (about
1/16 - 1/8" dia) hole/gap in the weld between the support tubing and the
ring which accepts the lord mount. The hole looks to be intentional as
it is there on all 4 rings, any thoughts as to the reason? FWIW, The
mount is powder coated.

Cheers,

Dave

PS. After ordering a cowling, engine mount and window rings in January
2010, they arrived this week.



On 12/17/2010 10:42 PM, Dick Wampach wrote:

[quote]Marc you say Lycoming B2C for your Rebel I assume a 4 cyl.

About 5 years ago I contacted Murphy. Nancy sent me photos of the only
two
mounts that they market.
Most if not all of the smaller (4) cyl engines have the four mount lugs
cast
into the case of the engine (non removable). As I understand "Conical
engine
mount"
Most of the bigger engines(6) cyl have four bolt on lugs attached to the
engine case with 4 studs. Commonly called "Dynafocal" mount's
There are 2 types of lugs out their:
Cessna uses the one with a 18* merging angle. That is to say
they all point to the front of the engine at approximately the prop
flange.
Piper uses a 30* lug which merges at about the center of the
crankshaft.

I hope this clears things up or all of you builders!

OK; so Murphy uses the 30* Dynafocal Motor mount configuration. One is
referred to as a "A", the other is a "B" configuration. The Lord rubber
mounts are not interchangeable.
The P.N. for use with Murphy 30* system Mounts J-3804-20 from PA-23-250
PA-24's PA-25's, and a few others.


SO if your problem is that you can not use the Murphy engine mount with
your
O-540 all you have to do is buy new mount lugs from Lycoming for a few
thousand $$ (an expensive option).
Or modify the mount to fit your 18* engine (not a good option).
Third and best choice was to use the lead that Nancy Puff gave me.
For the cost of freight only, Aero Sport Power in Canada, about 50 miles
away from the Murphy factory. They had a need for the used but not
abused
18* mount lugs and were willing to exchange certified 30* parts with me,
great people to deal with.

Dick Wampach SR-108 N331RW



-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 3:05 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com; rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] Conical engine mount


-------- Forwarded Message ---------
Original: DATE..... 12/17/2010 6:52 AM
Original: FROM..... Marc van Hulzen

Marc.. how close are you to needing a mount???? I have a very solid jig made
for the Lycoming conical mount in two configurations. A lower engine for the
nose bowl and cowl doors, to give you a better view over the nose.. and a
higher mount so the engine fits inside the Murphy "speed cowling" that was
designed around the dynafocal mount.

Just not certain when I can actually get around to producing some mounts....
as our daughter's chemo is top priority and the other work in the shop is
sucking the hind tit to that.

Regards,
Wayne O'Shea
Irish Field Aviation
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: <mike.davis@dcsol.com>; <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>; <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 6:05 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Conical engine mount


[quote]-------- Forwarded Message ---------
Original: DATE..... 12/17/2010 6:52 AM
Original: FROM..... Marc van Hulzen

Hello Wayne,

Thanks for your respond.
No worries about the engine Mount.
The building process is not even near the firewall forward.

The engine mounts for this type of engine seems to be all "custom made".

I hope you and your family get all the luck you can get in the upcoming
time.

Kind regards,

Marc van Hulzen
PH-REB
www.dutchnostalgicwings.nl


-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] Namens Wayne G.
O'Shea
Verzonden: zondag 19 december 2010 5:02
Aan: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Onderwerp: Re: [rebel-builders] Conical engine mount

Marc.. how close are you to needing a mount???? I have a very solid jig made

for the Lycoming conical mount in two configurations. A lower engine for the

nose bowl and cowl doors, to give you a better view over the nose.. and a
higher mount so the engine fits inside the Murphy "speed cowling" that was
designed around the dynafocal mount.

Just not certain when I can actually get around to producing some mounts....

as our daughter's chemo is top priority and the other work in the shop is
sucking the hind tit to that.

Regards,
Wayne O'Shea
Irish Field Aviation
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: <mike.davis@dcsol.com>; <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>; <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 6:05 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Conical engine mount


[quote]-------- Forwarded Message ---------
Original: DATE..... 12/17/2010 6:52 AM
Original: FROM..... Marc van Hulzen

The conical mount was indeed available from the factory in at least 2
variations ... it just appears that someone misplaced the jig for it, or so
the story goes. Personally I prefer the conical mounted engine because of
the minimal movement it has in comparison to the dynafocal mount. Vibration
wise in flight... I dare anyone to tell me which mount is up front without
peaking under the "hood".

I'll see what the winter brings and try to get materials together so that I
can get a few mounts made up.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marc & Janine" <marcvanhulzen@online.nl>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 11:24 AM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Conical engine mount


[quote]Hello Wayne,

Thanks for your respond.
No worries about the engine Mount.
The building process is not even near the firewall forward.

The engine mounts for this type of engine seems to be all "custom made".

I hope you and your family get all the luck you can get in the upcoming
time.

Kind regards,

Marc van Hulzen
PH-REB
www.dutchnostalgicwings.nl


-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] Namens Wayne G.
O'Shea
Verzonden: zondag 19 december 2010 5:02
Aan: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Onderwerp: Re: [rebel-builders] Conical engine mount

Marc.. how close are you to needing a mount???? I have a very solid jig
made

for the Lycoming conical mount in two configurations. A lower engine for
the

nose bowl and cowl doors, to give you a better view over the nose.. and a
higher mount so the engine fits inside the Murphy "speed cowling" that was
designed around the dynafocal mount.

Just not certain when I can actually get around to producing some
mounts....

as our daughter's chemo is top priority and the other work in the shop is
sucking the hind tit to that.

Regards,
Wayne O'Shea
Irish Field Aviation
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: <mike.davis@dcsol.com>; <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>; <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 6:05 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Conical engine mount


[quote]-------- Forwarded Message ---------
Original: DATE..... 12/17/2010 6:52 AM
Original: FROM..... Marc van Hulzen

I agree with that 100%. I had a conical mount with the 1st engine, and now
have the dynafocal with the new one, and have not noticed any change in
vibration. When leaning, I put my hand on a certain part of my panel to feel
if the engine is still smooth, and that method still works the same with
both mounts.

What is different with the dynafocal mount is how the engine bounces around
when taking off in waves on the water. Seems a little disconcerting at
times, just how much the prop spinner moves up and down.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
G. O'Shea
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 8:33 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Conical engine mount

The conical mount was indeed available from the factory in at least 2
variations ... it just appears that someone misplaced the jig for it, or so
the story goes. Personally I prefer the conical mounted engine because of
the minimal movement it has in comparison to the dynafocal mount. Vibration
wise in flight... I dare anyone to tell me which mount is up front without
peaking under the "hood".

I'll see what the winter brings and try to get materials together so that I
can get a few mounts made up.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marc & Janine" <marcvanhulzen@online.nl>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 11:24 AM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Conical engine mount


[quote]Hello Wayne,

Thanks for your respond.
No worries about the engine Mount.
The building process is not even near the firewall forward.

The engine mounts for this type of engine seems to be all "custom made".

I hope you and your family get all the luck you can get in the upcoming
time.

Kind regards,

Marc van Hulzen
PH-REB
www.dutchnostalgicwings.nl


-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] Namens Wayne G.
O'Shea
Verzonden: zondag 19 december 2010 5:02
Aan: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Onderwerp: Re: [rebel-builders] Conical engine mount

Marc.. how close are you to needing a mount???? I have a very solid jig
made

for the Lycoming conical mount in two configurations. A lower engine for
the

nose bowl and cowl doors, to give you a better view over the nose.. and a
higher mount so the engine fits inside the Murphy "speed cowling" that was
designed around the dynafocal mount.

Just not certain when I can actually get around to producing some
mounts....

as our daughter's chemo is top priority and the other work in the shop is
sucking the hind tit to that.

Regards,
Wayne O'Shea
Irish Field Aviation
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: <mike.davis@dcsol.com>; <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>; <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 6:05 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] Conical engine mount


[quote]-------- Forwarded Message ---------
Original: DATE..... 12/17/2010 6:52 AM
Original: FROM..... Marc van Hulzen

Sticking with the subject, altho my question is wrt the dynafocal mount...

Doesn't it matter which engine, as to the 18 or 30 degree mount? It seems
odd that it hinges on Piper versus Cessna when, after all, it is the front of the
mount (that ties to the engine). Or, is it just that some angle in works, and
the Lord bushings take care of 18 versus 30?

Thanks,
-Ben



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Ben: The 18* & 30* mounts are not interchangeable, and it is not
Cessna versus Piper. Piper used the Lyc. I0320 B1A with the 18* mount
on the twin Comanche, but also uses various other Lyc. engines
with 30* mounts, where as Cessna uses Lyc. engines with the 30* mount.
The 18* mount is an early version of the dynafocal mount. What
Lycoming did was to use a conical type engine block, but instead
of drilling the mounting holes streight they drilled them at a 18* angle
with a depression in in the ears that require an special aluminum
washer and also the motor mount must be welded up at 18*.
The 30* mount block is cast with more material so the ears can be
machined at a 30* angle, and that mount must be welded up at
30*

Keith P. Taildraggers forever

On 12/19/2010 7:35 PM, bransom wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Sticking with the subject, altho my question is wrt the dynafocal mount...
->
-> Doesn't it matter which engine, as to the 18 or 30 degree mount? It
seems
-> odd that it hinges on Piper versus Cessna when, after all, it is the front of
the
-> mount (that ties to the engine). Or, is it just that some angle in works,
and
-> the Lord bushings take care of 18 versus 30?
->
-> Thanks,
-> -Ben




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Thanks Keith for the clarifications. I'd mostly been thinking about getting a
conical mount engine and so had somewhat forgotton about the two types of
dynafocal. (Walter and Wayne's recent comments somewhat strengthen my
interest in hoping for a deal on a conical.) Anyway, I've widened my search
recently to the wide deck/dynafocals, so glad for the reminder on angles. I
still can't tell though if it was only the IO B1A engines that used Type 2, 18*.

Found another helpful post on this after digging around a little last night:
http://www.biplaneforum.com/printer_fri ... p?TID=3758 (near the
bottom)
-Ben/ 496R

On 12/19/2010 9:22 PM, kpierson wrote to bransom:

Ben: The 18* & 30* mounts are not interchangeable, and it is not
Cessna versus Piper. Piper used the Lyc. I0320 B1A with the 18* mount
on the twin Comanche, but also uses various other Lyc. engines
with 30* mounts, where as Cessna uses Lyc. engines with the 30* mount.
The 18* mount is an early version of the dynafocal mount. What
Lycoming did was to use a conical type engine block, but instead
of drilling the mounting holes streight they drilled them at a 18* angle
with a depression in in the ears that require an special aluminum
washer and also the motor mount must be welded up at 18*.
The 30* mount block is cast with more material so the ears can be
machined at a 30* angle, and that mount must be welded up at
30*

Keith P. Taildraggers forever

On 12/19/2010 7:35 PM, bransom wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Sticking with the subject, altho my question is wrt the dynafocal

mount...

->
-> Doesn't it matter which engine, as to the 18 or 30 degree mount? It
seems
-> odd that it hinges on Piper versus Cessna when, after all, it is the front

of

the
-> mount (that ties to the engine). Or, is it just that some angle in works,
and
-> the Lord bushings take care of 18 versus 30?
->
-> Thanks,
-> -Ben

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