The Murphy Builders Site

In a message dated 1/2/01 5:30:48 PM Pacific Standard Time, Legeorgen writes:

Ken,

Thanks for the input on the firewall. I was somehow deleted from the list
over the holidays and had to read your comments on the archives. I gathered
you built your Rebel first without the firewall mod and then changed it

later?

This is the situation I have and after discussions with MAM and reading the
archives, I chose to leave it. I understand it is a compromise.

I will do something with the lower corner raps, I just have not decided
weather to double them up since I have extra fus 10s, or order the .32 inch
ones. MAM sold me fus 10s for replacing the lower raps at their suggestion,
saying I would need them to replace the originals, after cutting off 3" at
the door post. This was after a conversation with Brian and Daryl, at the
factory, a few weeks ago. They knew I was putting a 0 320 on the plane.
I would have appreciated the suggestion to upgrade to heaver corner raps
then.

I agree, the Rebel is an outstanding airplane and I am glad I am building
one. MAM has been helpful and cooperative. This is my second project and

FWIW, Skystar (Kitfox) had a better manual and support

staff. I'm not complaining, every company and plane has its good and bad
points, that's just my opinion. I do think the Rebel is a better airplane,

and I can't wait to fly it.

How much work WAS that firewall retro fit? I'm curious.

Bruce G

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------ Start of attached email. Subject: Corner raps ------
Ken,

Thanks for the input on the firewall. I was somehow deleted from the list
over the holidays and had to read your comments on the archives. I gathered
you built your Rebel first without the firewall mod and then changed it
later? This is the situation I have and after discussions with MAM and
reading the archives, I chose to leave it. I understand it is a compromise.

I will do something with the lower corner raps, I just have not decided
weather to double them up since I have extra fus 10s, or order the .32 inch
ones. MAM sold me fus 10s for replacing the lower raps at their suggestion,
saying I would need them to replace the originals, after cutting off 3" at
the door post. This was after a conversation with Brian and Daryl, at the
factory, a few weeks ago. They knew I was putting a 0 320 on the plane.
I would have appreciated the suggestion to upgrade to heaver corner raps then.

I agree, the Rebel is an outstanding airplane and I am glad I am building
one. MAM has been helpful and cooperative. This is my second project and I
will tell you though, Skystar (Kitfox) had a much better manual and support
staff. I'm not complaining, every company and plane has its good and bad
points, I'm just noting an observation.

How much work was that firewall retro fit? I'm curious.

Bruce G




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------ End of attached email ------

Wayne,

Would you suggest using the .20 inch fus 10's I already have, for doubling
the lower corner raps, or would it be better to buy new .32 inch corner raps
and just replace them?

Your response to Walter about checking his firewall for buckling caused me to
reconsider reinforcing the LOWER engine mounts. The top mounts I have already
installed the 2 inch MAM channel. What did your lower engine mount fix look
like?

Bruce G
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Hi Bruce

I don't keep track of hours any more but I'm sure I spent a couple of
hundred hours moving the firewall by the time I replaced all the parts
and sorted through the ramnifications for the windshield, the seats, and
the control column placement, instrument panel, new engine mount
brackets, etc. But I am not a fast worker.

I think Mike Jones might be going to post some interesting thickness
specs for some new parts for this area. His comments on the difficulty
of installing .032 lower corner wraps made me glad I only used 0.025 for
mine as was recommended back then. Definately required some ratcheting
tie down straps though.

Ken

How much work WAS that firewall retro fit? I'm curious.
Bruce G

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Your following message has been delivered to the 180 members of
the list murphy-rebel@dcsol.com at 15:51:57 on 3 Jan 2001.
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Bruce, your vintage of serial number should already have FUS-70 .025 corner
wraps on the lower front corners, from the carrythrough up to the firewall.
Unless of course the original builder did like I did, way back when, and
opened the pack of fus -10's and 70's not realizing the 8 were any different
than each other and installed the two FUS-70 x .025's at the top cabin to
tail cone transition. I then bought new FUS-70's to do the front lowers
after I realized they were different thickness'. The .025's are most likely
fine, but with the extra torsion loads of the "spring" gear you may want to
go up to the .032's. I don't know why MAM would sell you FUS-10's, if you
specified the location you needed them for and not just a corner wrap when
you ordered. My personal Rebel is #243 and it came with the FUS-70's for
this location. No reason you couldn't also double up the existing one with
the .020, but it would be a tough job getting them to sit together properly.

FWIW, for anyone that is buying .032 corner wraps for the lower nose, use
the left over FUS-70's for the upper cabin to tailcone transition. I have
seen a few Rebels that have had one of these buckled IN from hard tail wheel
first landings. The other place they could be used is for the lower corner
wrap that goes from the rear gear attach area up towards the float point.
This adds some strength to the door sill area.

Bruce, You can view the firewall reinforcing plates on our website, in the
products section. I have some made up and ready to go out, or like I've said
before I'm not getting rich selling them so, if you have the material
available, make you own based on what you see on our site.

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: <Legeorgen@cs.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 1:30 AM
Subject: Re: Corner raps

Wayne,

Would you suggest using the .20 inch fus 10's I already have, for doubling
the lower corner raps, or would it be better to buy new .32 inch corner

raps

and just replace them?

Your response to Walter about checking his firewall for buckling caused me

to

reconsider reinforcing the LOWER engine mounts. The top mounts I have

already

installed the 2 inch MAM channel. What did your lower engine mount fix

look

like?

Bruce G

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Hi Ken

Did you move your firewall back? What made you consider this as there seems
to be differing opinions on this? On much did you move it?

Regards

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: klehman@albedo.net [mailto:klehman@albedo.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 9:14 AM
To: (Murphy Rebel Builders List)
Subject: Re: Fwd: Corner raps


Hi Bruce

I don't keep track of hours any more but I'm sure I spent a couple of
hundred hours moving the firewall by the time I replaced all the parts
and sorted through the ramnifications for the windshield, the seats, and
the control column placement, instrument panel, new engine mount
brackets, etc. But I am not a fast worker.

I think Mike Jones might be going to post some interesting thickness
specs for some new parts for this area. His comments on the difficulty
of installing .032 lower corner wraps made me glad I only used 0.025 for
mine as was recommended back then. Definately required some ratcheting
tie down straps though.

Ken

How much work WAS that firewall retro fit? I'm curious.
Bruce G

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Ken,

If the firewall was made in the original position, what made you decide to
change it? Did you not like the way it handled?

Bruce G
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Thanks Wayne, I forgot you had the firewall mods pictured on your web page.

Bruce G 357R
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Wayne,

I just went out to the shop and measured my lower corner raps and they are
.025. And yes, the manual called them fus 70. I should just listen to you in
the first place!

Bruce G 357R
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Hi Bruce !

If your lower front corner wraps are .025 already, you win !!
You really don't have to do anything with them, even if you don't
move the firewall... --------

.....bobp

-----------------------------------orig.-------------------------------------
At 09:32 PM 1/3/01 EST, you wrote:

Wayne,

I just went out to the shop and measured my lower corner raps and they are
.025. And yes, the manual called them fus 70. I should just listen to you in
the first place!

Bruce G 357R
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Bruce
No I have still not flown 119R. I am only a fellow builder.

Brian
No one was saying much about their success flying 0-320's without moving
the firewall back when I made the decision. The pros and cons are all in
the archives but the talk of needing more up elevator for single
occupant operation, and MAM's definate recommendation to move it, swayed
me. Daryl Murphy even went as far as recommending moving it for smaller
engines for optimising climb and cruise performance. Anyway I did indeed
move mine the recommended 3" when I upgraded the corner wraps.

For landing, a more aft c of g should help raise the nose but it will
also tend to aggravate the nose up pitching action from a wheel
bounce... Any thoughts??

Ken

rebelair wrote:

Did you move your firewall back? What made you consider this as there seems
to be differing opinions on this? On much did you move it?

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Thanks Bob for the advice on the corner raps. I think I'll leave them at that.

Bruce G 357R
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