The Murphy Builders Site

Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:24 pm**

Early 1800's... 20 thou sides.. .032 step bottoms and .025 rear bottoms..
Complete with struts and fittings (but no steps) = 258 lbs with a c of g of
10.72" after of aircraft datum (wing leading edge)

My factory prebuilts.. 20 sides.. .040 step bottoms.. .032 rear bottoms and
all rigging = 267lbs ( I can't find all my notes.. may have lied by 11 lbs)

Mark Morin's Rebel.. weighed when I put the Lyco on it after removing the
Subasoris... 999 lbs with a Sensenich on the nose. Installed to amphibs last
spring... c/w my usual dual entry extruded steps both sides (10lbs)..
plastic lines, MAM pump and selector. 1239 lbs on amphibs. Dropped to 1221
with a Prince Prop... so increase of empty weight of 238lbs over
conventional gear. The gear coming off to go to amphibs is about 60 lbs for
main.. and 5lb for tailwheel... so that would put his amphibs, all attach
gear, pump, selector, steps, hydraulic fluid, etc at a total weight of
303lbs!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 8:12 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] amphib weight

Is anybody willing to post their true rebel weight on 1800 amphibs or
even better, their true weight increase when changing to 1800 amphibs?

Or has anybody weighed the assembled floats complete with all mounting
gear?

thanks
Ken

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:24 pm**

1182 on amphibs, 950 on wheels - diesprings - small gold matco wheels and
axles, Scott 3200, O320, otherwise fairly spartan. The practical way to
weigh an amphib is hanging it from scales and balancing on the stinger. Four
scales gets pretty hairy due to differences in nosewheel loads caused by the
tensions in the cross cables. These are real numbers but FOKM is a fairly
early version 063R. It also has reinforcement at the rear hard points,
doubler in the tail for wheel ops, oil filter and transponder over and above
the obligatory equipment. IIRC the wheel gear is about 65#. I have never
weighed the floats themselves because of the 4 point issue(I only have 3
scales).

Garry
FOKM

On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 6:12 PM, Ken <klehman@albedo.net> wrote:

Is anybody willing to post their true rebel weight on 1800 amphibs or
even better, their true weight increase when changing to 1800 amphibs?

Or has anybody weighed the assembled floats complete with all mounting
gear?

thanks
Ken

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:24 pm**

Note, Ken, that Garry's is also with my dual steps ~ 10 lbs and he's come
in only 6 lbs different in the weight I stated for Mark Morin's airplane...
so we're all on about the same page.... 232 to 238 lb weight increase or
there abouts depending on lines used... pump.. steps.. etc. over your
wheeled beast.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Garry Wright" <wright.garry30@gmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 9:39 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] amphib weight

1182 on amphibs, 950 on wheels - diesprings - small gold matco wheels and
axles, Scott 3200, O320, otherwise fairly spartan. The practical way to
weigh an amphib is hanging it from scales and balancing on the stinger.
Four
scales gets pretty hairy due to differences in nosewheel loads caused by
the
tensions in the cross cables. These are real numbers but FOKM is a fairly
early version 063R. It also has reinforcement at the rear hard points,
doubler in the tail for wheel ops, oil filter and transponder over and
above
the obligatory equipment. IIRC the wheel gear is about 65#. I have never
weighed the floats themselves because of the 4 point issue(I only have 3
scales).

Garry
FOKM

On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 6:12 PM, Ken <klehman@albedo.net> wrote:

Is anybody willing to post their true rebel weight on 1800 amphibs or
even better, their true weight increase when changing to 1800 amphibs?

Or has anybody weighed the assembled floats complete with all mounting
gear?

thanks
Ken

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:24 pm**

thanks Gary and Wayne
Both of you are reporting about what I expected. Only explanation seems
to be that my aircraft gained a lot of weight in the past 4 years since
the last weighing. I can explain some of it but nowhere near all of it
yet.
First taxi test should happen tomorrow. Maybe a flight but will leave
wheels down for the first time around the patch.
Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

Note, Ken, that Garry's is also with my dual steps ~ 10 lbs and he's come
in only 6 lbs different in the weight I stated for Mark Morin's airplane...
so we're all on about the same page.... 232 to 238 lb weight increase or
there abouts depending on lines used... pump.. steps.. etc. over your
wheeled beast.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Garry Wright" <wright.garry30@gmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 9:39 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] amphib weight

1182 on amphibs, 950 on wheels - diesprings - small gold matco wheels and
axles, Scott 3200, O320, otherwise fairly spartan. The practical way to
weigh an amphib is hanging it from scales and balancing on the stinger.
Four
scales gets pretty hairy due to differences in nosewheel loads caused by
the
tensions in the cross cables. These are real numbers but FOKM is a fairly
early version 063R. It also has reinforcement at the rear hard points,
doubler in the tail for wheel ops, oil filter and transponder over and
above
the obligatory equipment. IIRC the wheel gear is about 65#. I have never
weighed the floats themselves because of the 4 point issue(I only have 3
scales).

Garry
FOKM

On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 6:12 PM, Ken <klehman@albedo.net> wrote:

Is anybody willing to post their true rebel weight on 1800 amphibs or
even better, their true weight increase when changing to 1800 amphibs?

Or has anybody weighed the assembled floats complete with all mounting
gear?

thanks
Ken

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:24 pm**

I gained about 250 pounds with the amphibs. But I had the lighter bungee gear, small wheels and MAM tail wheel.

Walter
Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 23:01:45
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] amphib weight

thanks Gary and Wayne
Both of you are reporting about what I expected. Only explanation seems
to be that my aircraft gained a lot of weight in the past 4 years since
the last weighing. I can explain some of it but nowhere near all of it
yet.
First taxi test should happen tomorrow. Maybe a flight but will leave
wheels down for the first time around the patch.
Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

Note, Ken, that Garry's is also with my dual steps ~ 10 lbs and he's come
in only 6 lbs different in the weight I stated for Mark Morin's airplane...
so we're all on about the same page.... 232 to 238 lb weight increase or
there abouts depending on lines used... pump.. steps.. etc. over your
wheeled beast.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Garry Wright" <wright.garry30@gmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 9:39 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] amphib weight

1182 on amphibs, 950 on wheels - diesprings - small gold matco wheels and
axles, Scott 3200, O320, otherwise fairly spartan. The practical way to
weigh an amphib is hanging it from scales and balancing on the stinger.
Four
scales gets pretty hairy due to differences in nosewheel loads caused by
the
tensions in the cross cables. These are real numbers but FOKM is a fairly
early version 063R. It also has reinforcement at the rear hard points,
doubler in the tail for wheel ops, oil filter and transponder over and
above
the obligatory equipment. IIRC the wheel gear is about 65#. I have never
weighed the floats themselves because of the 4 point issue(I only have 3
scales).

Garry
FOKM

On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 6:12 PM, Ken <klehman@albedo.net> wrote:

Is anybody willing to post their true rebel weight on 1800 amphibs or
even better, their true weight increase when changing to 1800 amphibs?

Or has anybody weighed the assembled floats complete with all mounting
gear?

thanks
Ken

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:24 pm**

My Rebel wheel picked up a rock and threw it to the Horizontal stablizer when landing at Lawing gravel strip, Alaska today. See picture.

Where can I buy this leading edge piece to replace the damage.

Jay

To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] amphib weight
From: walter.klatt@shaw.ca
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 03:56:40 +0000

I gained about 250 pounds with the amphibs. But I had the lighter bungee gear, small wheels and MAM tail wheel.

Walter
Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 23:01:45
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] amphib weight

thanks Gary and Wayne
Both of you are reporting about what I expected. Only explanation seems
to be that my aircraft gained a lot of weight in the past 4 years since
the last weighing. I can explain some of it but nowhere near all of it
yet.
First taxi test should happen tomorrow. Maybe a flight but will leave
wheels down for the first time around the patch.
Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:
Note, Ken, that Garry's is also with my dual steps ~ 10 lbs and he's come
in only 6 lbs different in the weight I stated for Mark Morin's airplane...
so we're all on about the same page.... 232 to 238 lb weight increase or
there abouts depending on lines used... pump.. steps.. etc. over your
wheeled beast.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Garry Wright" <wright.garry30@gmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 9:39 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] amphib weight

1182 on amphibs, 950 on wheels - diesprings - small gold matco wheels and
axles, Scott 3200, O320, otherwise fairly spartan. The practical way to
weigh an amphib is hanging it from scales and balancing on the stinger.
Four
scales gets pretty hairy due to differences in nosewheel loads caused by
the
tensions in the cross cables. These are real numbers but FOKM is a fairly
early version 063R. It also has reinforcement at the rear hard points,
doubler in the tail for wheel ops, oil filter and transponder over and
above
the obligatory equipment. IIRC the wheel gear is about 65#. I have never
weighed the floats themselves because of the 4 point issue(I only have 3
scales).

Garry
FOKM

On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 6:12 PM, Ken <klehman@albedo.net> wrote:

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:24 pm**

Have you pumped out the floats lately Ken ? :-)
Nig

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Ken
Sent: 15 June 2010 04:02
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] amphib weight

thanks Gary and Wayne
Both of you are reporting about what I expected. Only explanation seems
to be that my aircraft gained a lot of weight in the past 4 years since
the last weighing. I can explain some of it but nowhere near all of it
yet.
First taxi test should happen tomorrow. Maybe a flight but will leave
wheels down for the first time around the patch.
Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

Note, Ken, that Garry's is also with my dual steps ~ 10 lbs and he's come

in only 6 lbs different in the weight I stated for Mark Morin's

airplane...

so we're all on about the same page.... 232 to 238 lb weight increase or
there abouts depending on lines used... pump.. steps.. etc. over your
wheeled beast.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Garry Wright" <wright.garry30@gmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 9:39 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] amphib weight

1182 on amphibs, 950 on wheels - diesprings - small gold matco wheels and
axles, Scott 3200, O320, otherwise fairly spartan. The practical way to
weigh an amphib is hanging it from scales and balancing on the stinger.
Four
scales gets pretty hairy due to differences in nosewheel loads caused by
the
tensions in the cross cables. These are real numbers but FOKM is a fairly
early version 063R. It also has reinforcement at the rear hard points,
doubler in the tail for wheel ops, oil filter and transponder over and
above
the obligatory equipment. IIRC the wheel gear is about 65#. I have never
weighed the floats themselves because of the 4 point issue(I only have 3
scales).

Garry
FOKM

On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 6:12 PM, Ken <klehman@albedo.net> wrote:

Is anybody willing to post their true rebel weight on 1800 amphibs or
even better, their true weight increase when changing to 1800 amphibs?

Or has anybody weighed the assembled floats complete with all mounting
gear?

thanks
Ken

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:24 pm**

I'll do that today Nig.
Lots of accumulated condensation I imagine ;)

Not to mention some hydraulic fluid. It holds hydraulic pressure much
better when you tighten ALL the fittings...

Some of the working utility aircraft used to lose as much as 150 lbs of
sand and dirt after a good annual and cleaning under the floor. Wish I
could do that on the rebel!

Ken

N.Smith wrote:

Have you pumped out the floats lately Ken ? :-)
Nig

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:24 pm**

Jay,

Reeves Airmotive on 5th ave in Anchorage sells the .020 material as does
Glacier Aircraft in Palmer. You'd still have to form it in a vacuum bag or
something. I can help if you need it. 907-355-6290 Craig

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Jay Yau jayyau28@hotmail.com
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 23:42:33 -0700
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] amphib weight

My Rebel wheel picked up a rock and threw it to the Horizontal stablizer
when landing at Lawing gravel strip, Alaska today. See picture.

Where can I buy this leading edge piece to replace the damage.

Jay

To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] amphib weight
From: walter.klatt@shaw.ca
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 03:56:40 +0000

I gained about 250 pounds with the amphibs. But I had the lighter bungee

gear, small wheels and MAM tail wheel.

Walter
Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 23:01:45
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] amphib weight

thanks Gary and Wayne
Both of you are reporting about what I expected. Only explanation seems
to be that my aircraft gained a lot of weight in the past 4 years since
the last weighing. I can explain some of it but nowhere near all of it
yet.
First taxi test should happen tomorrow. Maybe a flight but will leave
wheels down for the first time around the patch.
Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:
Note, Ken, that Garry's is also with my dual steps ~ 10 lbs and he's

come

in only 6 lbs different in the weight I stated for Mark Morin's

airplane...

so we're all on about the same page.... 232 to 238 lb weight increase

or

there abouts depending on lines used... pump.. steps.. etc. over your
wheeled beast.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Garry Wright" <wright.garry30@gmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 9:39 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] amphib weight

1182 on amphibs, 950 on wheels - diesprings - small gold matco wheels

and

axles, Scott 3200, O320, otherwise fairly spartan. The practical way to
weigh an amphib is hanging it from scales and balancing on the

stinger.

Four
scales gets pretty hairy due to differences in nosewheel loads caused

by

the
tensions in the cross cables. These are real numbers but FOKM is a

fairly

early version 063R. It also has reinforcement at the rear hard points,
doubler in the tail for wheel ops, oil filter and transponder over and
above
the obligatory equipment. IIRC the wheel gear is about 65#. I have

never

weighed the floats themselves because of the 4 point issue(I only have

3

scales).

Garry
FOKM

On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 6:12 PM, Ken <klehman@albedo.net> wrote:

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:24 pm**

Ken....My amphibs weighed in at 300lbs (everything in); mains and tailwheel were 65lbs, so net gain of 235.
Plane on amphibs weighs 1292 lbs with a gross wt. of 1900. Original construction had considerable "overbuild"
plus all the Ontario and MAM mods! Empty wt. on wheels (spring gear) is 1057 lbs. A/C has 0-320 and a
Sensenich prop. Hope this helps. Bob 331R

---- Original Message ----
From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Sent: Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:01 pm
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] amphib weight

thanks Gary and Wayne
Both of you are reporting about what I expected. Only explanation seems
to be that my aircraft gained a lot of weight in the past 4 years since
the last weighing. I can explain some of it but nowhere near all of it
yet.
First taxi test should happen tomorrow. Maybe a flight but will leave
wheels down for the first time around the patch.
Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

Note, Ken, that Garry's is also with my dual steps ~ 10 lbs and he's come
in only 6 lbs different in the weight I stated for Mark Morin's airplane...
so we're all on about the same page.... 232 to 238 lb weight increase or
there abouts depending on lines used... pump.. steps.. etc. over your
wheeled beast.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Garry Wright" <wright.garry30@gmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 9:39 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] amphib weight

1182 on amphibs, 950 on wheels - diesprings - small gold matco wheels and
axles, Scott 3200, O320, otherwise fairly spartan. The practical way to
weigh an amphib is hanging it from scales and balancing on the stinger.
Four
scales gets pretty hairy due to differences in nosewheel loads caused by
the
tensions in the cross cables. These are real numbers but FOKM is a fairly
early version 063R. It also has reinforcement at the rear hard points,
doubler in the tail for wheel ops, oil filter and transponder over and
above
the obligatory equipment. IIRC the wheel gear is about 65#. I have never
weighed the floats themselves because of the 4 point issue(I only have 3
scales).

Garry
FOKM

On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 6:12 PM, Ken <klehman@albedo.net> wrote:

Is anybody willing to post their true rebel weight on 1800 amphibs or
even better, their true weight increase when changing to 1800 amphibs?

Or has anybody weighed the assembled floats complete with all mounting
gear?

thanks
Ken

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:24 pm**

Neat to see.. smack dab in the middle of Garry and my numbers!

Now Ken... where did the extra weight come from??? You went with truck brake
lines vs Parker parflex did you not?.. what else. Did you do like I'm
working on now.. Electric Parker "trim" pump 10 lbs... manual Parker
pump/selector (solid block of steel).. probably 5 lbs. Solid lines,
manifolds, tons of fittings.. Pressure switches.. pressure transducers for
digital pressure gauge, Keith Kinden's gear selector head and lights, audio
warning.......... gonna be heavy!

----- Original Message -----
From: <jbcressman@aol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 10:28 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] amphib weight

Ken....My amphibs weighed in at 300lbs (everything in); mains and
tailwheel were 65lbs, so net gain of 235.
Plane on amphibs weighs 1292 lbs with a gross wt. of 1900. Original
construction had considerable "overbuild"
plus all the Ontario and MAM mods! Empty wt. on wheels (spring gear) is
1057 lbs. A/C has 0-320 and a
Sensenich prop. Hope this helps. Bob 331R

---- Original Message ----
From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Sent: Mon, Jun 14, 2010 11:01 pm
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] amphib weight

thanks Gary and Wayne
Both of you are reporting about what I expected. Only explanation seems
to be that my aircraft gained a lot of weight in the past 4 years since
the last weighing. I can explain some of it but nowhere near all of it
yet.
First taxi test should happen tomorrow. Maybe a flight but will leave
wheels down for the first time around the patch.
Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:
Note, Ken, that Garry's is also with my dual steps ~ 10 lbs and he's
come
in only 6 lbs different in the weight I stated for Mark Morin's
airplane...
so we're all on about the same page.... 232 to 238 lb weight increase or
there abouts depending on lines used... pump.. steps.. etc. over your
wheeled beast.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Garry Wright" <wright.garry30@gmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 9:39 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] amphib weight

1182 on amphibs, 950 on wheels - diesprings - small gold matco wheels
and
axles, Scott 3200, O320, otherwise fairly spartan. The practical way to
weigh an amphib is hanging it from scales and balancing on the stinger.
Four
scales gets pretty hairy due to differences in nosewheel loads caused by
the
tensions in the cross cables. These are real numbers but FOKM is a
fairly
early version 063R. It also has reinforcement at the rear hard points,
doubler in the tail for wheel ops, oil filter and transponder over and
above
the obligatory equipment. IIRC the wheel gear is about 65#. I have never
weighed the floats themselves because of the 4 point issue(I only have 3
scales).

Garry
FOKM

On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 6:12 PM, Ken <klehman@albedo.net> wrote:

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