The Murphy Builders Site

Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] windshield retainer screws
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:43:00 -0500
From: Michael.Jones@snclavalin.com
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com

I have same situation on my widshiel and don't know what to do with it

Cheers

Mike#007

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Ron Shannon
Sent: February 24, 2010 11:33 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] windshield retainer screws

The good news is the windshield is mounted and generally looks great,
with
one exception. I'm using the factory-provided dual flanged metal strips
for
the side and top windshield retainers, with the wide flange to the rear,
and
screw holes through the wide flange. The screw heads are at quite an
angle
to the rear flange, which is itself at an angle to fuse, of course.
Because
they're at quite an angle, the screw head edges are only loading the
forward
side of the wide flange bearing surface.

Any suggestions for getting the screw heads to sit flatter on the
flange? I
have seen this same configuration on other Rebels where the screw heads
seem
to draw down quite flat on the rear flange, but haven't figured out how
to
do it. (I have a hunch this shouldn't be a mystery, but concocting
mysteries
where there shouldn't be any is one of the few things I do well.)

With regular head screws (i.e., not truss head) on top of nylon washers,
the
head-to-flange angle looks a little better, but the only other option I
can
think of that might work would be to custom bend a Z-step retainer like
some
others have used.

Ron
254R




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What about just sanding some thick nylon washers to the same angle as the
retainer?

The use of "wedge washers" is an option, whether custom made by the builder,
or purchased. I think metal ones are available commercially, though they're
not cheap. I'm not crazy about the look, but it's an option. Changing to a
custom Z-step retainer is also an option -- probably where I'm headed with
this if there's no way to use the factory double flange retainer with
machine screws without an angle problem.

With the factory provided double flange metal retainers, I have installed
nutplates which do, of course, tend to hold the machine screws pretty
perpendicular to the fuse. But I assume people who have used machine screws
with separate washers and nuts on the inside must have the same issue, if
not on the outside at the wide flange, then on the inside. An inconvenient
angle has to be compensated for somewhere -- if the factory bent flange
retainers are used with machine screws. (Sheet metal screws or rivets may be
able to maintain some grip while being a bit off kilter to the hole --
though it doesn't seem like a good idea.)

Bottom line: What have others who have used machine screws with the factory
double flange retainers done about the angle issue? Has it not been an issue
and if so, why not? What am I missing? Have they put up with or accepted an
angle in the fastener face somewhere, whether outside at the screw head, or
inside at the washer? Or something else. I know some people have managed to
get their screw heads flat against the already angled wide flange, but don't
know how.

Ron
254R


On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 12:45 PM, Jesse Jenks <jessejenks@hotmail.com>wrote:

What about just sanding some thick nylon washers to the same angle as the
retainer?

Ron
I made new retainers for the side of the windshield as MAM's were never
going to look correct to me.
On the top of the windshield I used MAM's part but I put the screws
through the center of the retainer. ie not through the wide or narrow
flange. Actually I guess they were stainless 6-32 bolts and nylock nuts
rather than screws but screws would seal out water better. I do recall
futzing with some adhesive foam strips under the retainer to help even
out the angle but it worked out OK.
Doesn't help you much but you asked...
Ken

Ron Shannon wrote:

The use of "wedge washers" is an option, whether custom made by the

builder,

or purchased. I think metal ones are available commercially, though

they're

not cheap. I'm not crazy about the look, but it's an option. Changing to

a

custom Z-step retainer is also an option -- probably where I'm headed

with

this if there's no way to use the factory double flange retainer with
machine screws without an angle problem.

With the factory provided double flange metal retainers, I have installed
nutplates which do, of course, tend to hold the machine screws pretty
perpendicular to the fuse. But I assume people who have used machine

screws

with separate washers and nuts on the inside must have the same issue, if
not on the outside at the wide flange, then on the inside. An

inconvenient

angle has to be compensated for somewhere -- if the factory bent flange
retainers are used with machine screws. (Sheet metal screws or rivets may

be

able to maintain some grip while being a bit off kilter to the hole --
though it doesn't seem like a good idea.)

Bottom line: What have others who have used machine screws with the

factory

double flange retainers done about the angle issue? Has it not been an

issue

and if so, why not? What am I missing? Have they put up with or accepted

an

angle in the fastener face somewhere, whether outside at the screw head,

or

inside at the washer? Or something else. I know some people have managed

to

get their screw heads flat against the already angled wide flange, but

don't

know how.

Ron
254R


On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 12:45 PM, Jesse Jenks <jessejenks@hotmail.com
wrote:

What about just sanding some thick nylon washers to the same angle as

the

retainer?

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Thanks, Ken. I have pictures of the screw heads drawn down nice and flat on
Ducky's retainers, among others, so it's interesting to hear what you did.
For the top retainer, I did make a second, slightly wider double flanged
piece so I could put the screws in the center section -- essentially the
same as you did for that. However, doing the same at the sides is
problematic at this point because I'd still like the total width of the side
retainers to line up with the fiberglass retainer that's already installed
below.

One reason I didn't put the holes in the center flat section on the sides
in the first place was that research in the archives seemed to indicate that
was the best location. In fact, for the windshield to make a 1" overlap of
the A frame (as specified in the manual (though mine is already a bit less)
and still line up the front line of the retainer with the forward edge of
the A frame (nicer look) the only place available to put the holes aft of
the acrylic is the wide flange. If I had placed them in the center section,
even as far back as possible, the retainer would have had quite a bit less
coverage over the acrylic -- maybe only 5/8" or so -- and I was not keen on
reducing the retainer's coverage of the acrylic that much.

The idea of putting something under the wide flange may have merit.
"Except" for the added weight (What's another couple of ounces? Right.)
maybe a narrow strip of 1/8" bar stock would work well. Otherwise, making
some Z-step retainers is probably the best solution in my case.

Ron
254R