The Murphy Builders Site

Walter,

What level do you try and keep the oil at? As I understand it, the O-360 has a longer stroke so if the oil pan is the same size the crank throws will be more likely to hit the oil in the pan resulting in oil being thrown out than in the O-320. My limited experience with O-320's is that they will spit out oil until it gets down to a certain level (often around 6 qts) and then stop spitting out the oil. Does your oil loss stabilize at some point or do you keep topping it up?



Dave J

From: Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] Oil Separator
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 09:05:49 -0800

Just looking at the recent archive files I see that someone is using this
oil separator. Never seen this one before, and certainly a lot cheaper than
the ones from ACS. How does it work? Is it any good?

http://www.allstarperformance.com/specSheets/pdf/25.pdf



I may have to bite the bullet and get an oil separator for mine. My new 360
really spews out the oil, much more so than my old 320. I only get about 7
hours per qt. I was double that with the 320, and even it was a little wet
underneath. But this one actually drips out of the tube, when I put it back
in the hangar.



I tried repositioning the outlet at the bottom, but to no avail. I think I
have quite a strong low pressure area there with my big cowl exit, and small
stock inlets. My cooling is very good, though, with this engine, so nothing
to change there.



Anybody have any other suggestions?



Walter





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_________________________________________________________________
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I fill mine to 6 and run it down to 5. Spews oil the whole time. I thought
maybe a new engine going through break in would be worse, but I'm over 150
hours now on the new engine and the oil consumption still hasn't changed. My
plugs are dry, so don't think I have glazed cylinders.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of David
Jackson
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 9:33 AM
To: Rebel Builders
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Oil Separator


Walter,

What level do you try and keep the oil at? As I understand it, the O-360
has a longer stroke so if the oil pan is the same size the crank throws will
be more likely to hit the oil in the pan resulting in oil being thrown out
than in the O-320. My limited experience with O-320's is that they will
spit out oil until it gets down to a certain level (often around 6 qts) and
then stop spitting out the oil. Does your oil loss stabilize at some point
or do you keep topping it up?



Dave J

From: Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] Oil Separator
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 09:05:49 -0800

Just looking at the recent archive files I see that someone is using this
oil separator. Never seen this one before, and certainly a lot cheaper

than

the ones from ACS. How does it work? Is it any good?

http://www.allstarperformance.com/specSheets/pdf/25.pdf



I may have to bite the bullet and get an oil separator for mine. My new

360

really spews out the oil, much more so than my old 320. I only get about 7
hours per qt. I was double that with the 320, and even it was a little wet
underneath. But this one actually drips out of the tube, when I put it

back

in the hangar.



I tried repositioning the outlet at the bottom, but to no avail. I think I
have quite a strong low pressure area there with my big cowl exit, and

small

stock inlets. My cooling is very good, though, with this engine, so

nothing

to change there.



Anybody have any other suggestions?



Walter





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Walter,

I'm not clear on how they work but I too have some issues with throwing
oil out the breather. Its not as severe in my case but it is a bit of a
pain.

My AME told me when I first got FOKM that there has historically been a
problem with breather tubes icing up and plugging, leading to engine
failure in flight ( I cannot remember the mechanism of failure). What he
recommended was to drill some holes in the breather tube near to the
outlet but higher so that if the main exit gets plugged with ice, the
higher ones will still be clear. This may only be an issue in extreme
cold - unsure.

I would be careful with this issue when installing an oil capture device
as well and would like to hear comments from others on your question too.

Garry

Walter Klatt wrote:

Just looking at the recent archive files I see that someone is using this
oil separator. Never seen this one before, and certainly a lot cheaper than
the ones from ACS. How does it work? Is it any good?

http://www.allstarperformance.com/specSheets/pdf/25.pdf



I may have to bite the bullet and get an oil separator for mine. My new 360
really spews out the oil, much more so than my old 320. I only get about 7
hours per qt. I was double that with the 320, and even it was a little wet
underneath. But this one actually drips out of the tube, when I put it back
in the hangar.



I tried repositioning the outlet at the bottom, but to no avail. I think I
have quite a strong low pressure area there with my big cowl exit, and small
stock inlets. My cooling is very good, though, with this engine, so nothing
to change there.



Anybody have any other suggestions?



Walter





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--
Garry Wright

Skepticism is the highest duty and blind faith the one unpardonable sin.
-- Thomas Huxley, (attributed: source unknown)




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You're supposed to have a "whistle slot" in your tube higher up, in case the
bottom freezes shut with the moisture exiting in cold weather. I just
drilled a hole higher up on the side of the tube inside the cowl.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Garry
Wright
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 11:35 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Oil Separator

Walter,

I'm not clear on how they work but I too have some issues with throwing
oil out the breather. Its not as severe in my case but it is a bit of a
pain.

My AME told me when I first got FOKM that there has historically been a
problem with breather tubes icing up and plugging, leading to engine
failure in flight ( I cannot remember the mechanism of failure). What he
recommended was to drill some holes in the breather tube near to the
outlet but higher so that if the main exit gets plugged with ice, the
higher ones will still be clear. This may only be an issue in extreme
cold - unsure.

I would be careful with this issue when installing an oil capture device
as well and would like to hear comments from others on your question too.

Garry

Walter Klatt wrote:

Just looking at the recent archive files I see that someone is using this
oil separator. Never seen this one before, and certainly a lot cheaper

than

the ones from ACS. How does it work? Is it any good?

http://www.allstarperformance.com/specSheets/pdf/25.pdf



I may have to bite the bullet and get an oil separator for mine. My new

360

really spews out the oil, much more so than my old 320. I only get about 7
hours per qt. I was double that with the 320, and even it was a little wet
underneath. But this one actually drips out of the tube, when I put it

back

in the hangar.



I tried repositioning the outlet at the bottom, but to no avail. I think I
have quite a strong low pressure area there with my big cowl exit, and

small

stock inlets. My cooling is very good, though, with this engine, so

nothing

to change there.



Anybody have any other suggestions?



Walter





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--
Garry Wright

Skepticism is the highest duty and blind faith the one unpardonable sin.
-- Thomas Huxley, (attributed: source unknown)




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Walter: Something that has worked well on my I0 360 I got
from one of Toni Bingelises books. I split the oil return line on the
#4 cyl. installed a "T" fitting then ran a hose to the oil separator
all of the oil returns to the engine. But of course first you have to
have an oil separator. There agian there are also planes for making
one of those, in one of his books, which I also did.

Keith P. 318R



On 2/21/2010 8:33 AM, canadjn@hotmail.com wrote to rebel-builders:

->
-> Walter,
->
-> What level do you try and keep the oil at? As I understand it, the O-360
has a longer stroke so if the oil pan is the same size the crank throws will be
more likely to hit the oil in the pan resulting in oil being thrown out than in the
O-320. My limited experience with O-320's is that they will spit out oil until it
gets down to a certain level (often around 6 qts) and then stop spitting out
the oil. Does your oil loss stabilize at some point or do you keep topping it up?
->
->
->
-> Dave J
->
-> > From: Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca
-> > To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
-> > Subject: [rebel-builders] Oil Separator
-> > Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 09:05:49 -0800
-> >
-> > Just looking at the recent archive files I see that someone is using this
-> > oil separator. Never seen this one before, and certainly a lot cheaper
than
-> > the ones from ACS. How does it work? Is it any good?
-> >
-> > http://www.allstarperformance.com/specSheets/pdf/25.pdf
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > I may have to bite the bullet and get an oil separator for mine. My new
360
-> > really spews out the oil, much more so than my old 320. I only get about
7
-> > hours per qt. I was double that with the 320, and even it was a little wet
-> > underneath. But this one actually drips out of the tube, when I put it
back
-> > in the hangar.
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > I tried repositioning the outlet at the bottom, but to no avail. I think I
-> > have quite a strong low pressure area there with my big cowl exit, and
small
-> > stock inlets. My cooling is very good, though, with this engine, so
nothing
-> > to change there.
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > Anybody have any other suggestions?
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > Walter
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
->
->
_________________________________________________________________
-> Check your Hotmail from your phone.
-> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9708121




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Yeah, most of the separators have an oil return line. But there are so many
of them, and quite a range in price, so just wondering what people have
found to work best, at the lowest cost.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
kpierson@dcsol.com
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 4:21 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Oil Separator

Walter: Something that has worked well on my I0 360 I got
from one of Toni Bingelises books. I split the oil return line on the
#4 cyl. installed a "T" fitting then ran a hose to the oil separator
all of the oil returns to the engine. But of course first you have to
have an oil separator. There agian there are also planes for making
one of those, in one of his books, which I also did.

Keith P. 318R



On 2/21/2010 8:33 AM, canadjn@hotmail.com wrote to rebel-builders:

->
-> Walter,
->
-> What level do you try and keep the oil at? As I understand it, the
O-360
has a longer stroke so if the oil pan is the same size the crank throws will
be
more likely to hit the oil in the pan resulting in oil being thrown out than
in the
O-320. My limited experience with O-320's is that they will spit out oil
until it
gets down to a certain level (often around 6 qts) and then stop spitting out

the oil. Does your oil loss stabilize at some point or do you keep topping
it up?
->
->
->
-> Dave J
->
-> > From: Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca
-> > To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
-> > Subject: [rebel-builders] Oil Separator
-> > Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 09:05:49 -0800
-> >
-> > Just looking at the recent archive files I see that someone is using
this
-> > oil separator. Never seen this one before, and certainly a lot cheaper
than
-> > the ones from ACS. How does it work? Is it any good?
-> >
-> > http://www.allstarperformance.com/specSheets/pdf/25.pdf
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > I may have to bite the bullet and get an oil separator for mine. My new

360
-> > really spews out the oil, much more so than my old 320. I only get
about
7
-> > hours per qt. I was double that with the 320, and even it was a little
wet
-> > underneath. But this one actually drips out of the tube, when I put it
back
-> > in the hangar.
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > I tried repositioning the outlet at the bottom, but to no avail. I
think I
-> > have quite a strong low pressure area there with my big cowl exit, and
small
-> > stock inlets. My cooling is very good, though, with this engine, so
nothing
-> > to change there.
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > Anybody have any other suggestions?
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > Walter
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
->
->
_________________________________________________________________
-> Check your Hotmail from your phone.
-> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9708121




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I don't know much at all about oil separators, but I have a Zenith CH300
with a Lyc O-320 E2D.
I bought the engine used, with 2400 hours on it, and overhauled the bottom
end. I did not do anything to the cylinders other than have them inspected
by the local FBO shop, valves checked, and bores honed. I reassembled it
and flew it for 1000 hours. It used very little oil.
At 1000 hours, (now the cylinders total time in service is 3400 hrs and I
began to get a little nervous about that) I purchased new cylinder
assemblies from Lycoming, at about $1100 each, and put the engine back to
work. I now have almost 1900 hours on the airplane.

My point in all of this is that currently, with 900 hours on the new
cylinders, I use about 1/2 quart in 25 hours, which is when I change it
because I do not have an oil filter on the motor.

When flying, I do not "push" the engine hard, cruising around 2450 rpm. So
if someone is using a lot more oil than I am, I suspect that there may be
something wearing out in that engine. I would suspect worn rings, that are
letting a little combustion gas escape into the crankcase, and out the
breather tube. And on the way out it carries some oil with it.

Lycomings are permitted to use a surprising amount of oil before repair work
is suggested by the operators manual. I do not have my manual close by right
now, or I would look it up.

So if your Lycoming O-320 is using a lot of oil, and the belly is getting
soaked, I would suspect that the rings might be getting worn.


Tim Hickey




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Hi Walter
I don't think you will like my suggestion...
How come I've never seen anyone burn the gases that emerge from a
Lycosaur oil separator. Then there is no oil left to dirty your airplane
or the lake. It's been illegal to dump the blowby gases overboard for 50
years on an automobile and cars have way less to dump.
Ken


Walter Klatt wrote:

Just looking at the recent archive files I see that someone is using this
oil separator. Never seen this one before, and certainly a lot cheaper than
the ones from ACS. How does it work? Is it any good?

http://www.allstarperformance.com/specSheets/pdf/25.pdf



I may have to bite the bullet and get an oil separator for mine. My new 360
really spews out the oil, much more so than my old 320. I only get about 7
hours per qt. I was double that with the 320, and even it was a little wet
underneath. But this one actually drips out of the tube, when I put it back
in the hangar.



I tried repositioning the outlet at the bottom, but to no avail. I think I
have quite a strong low pressure area there with my big cowl exit, and small
stock inlets. My cooling is very good, though, with this engine, so nothing
to change there.



Anybody have any other suggestions?



Walter

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Well, actually, I have seen the some RV's where they vent it to the exhaust.
That makes for a clean belly. But in my case, I am first trying to keep the
oil in the engine.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Ken
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 6:07 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Oil Separator

Hi Walter
I don't think you will like my suggestion...
How come I've never seen anyone burn the gases that emerge from a
Lycosaur oil separator. Then there is no oil left to dirty your airplane
or the lake. It's been illegal to dump the blowby gases overboard for 50
years on an automobile and cars have way less to dump.
Ken


Walter Klatt wrote:

Just looking at the recent archive files I see that someone is using this
oil separator. Never seen this one before, and certainly a lot cheaper

than

the ones from ACS. How does it work? Is it any good?

http://www.allstarperformance.com/specSheets/pdf/25.pdf



I may have to bite the bullet and get an oil separator for mine. My new

360

really spews out the oil, much more so than my old 320. I only get about 7
hours per qt. I was double that with the 320, and even it was a little wet
underneath. But this one actually drips out of the tube, when I put it

back

in the hangar.



I tried repositioning the outlet at the bottom, but to no avail. I think I
have quite a strong low pressure area there with my big cowl exit, and

small

stock inlets. My cooling is very good, though, with this engine, so

nothing

to change there.



Anybody have any other suggestions?



Walter

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Understood that what the oil separator catches should drain back into
the crankcase. Oil separators don't catch everything though.

What the oil separator does not catch could be routed back into the
intake upstream of the carb. (Probably too much flow to route downstream
through a pcv valve) In addition to the environmental benefit this could
slightly improve smoothness and fuel economy. Has to do with better
vaporization due to more microscopic nuclei and more smaller fuel
droplets. Might even get a little top end lubrication.

Perhaps a bad idea if flirting with detonation on a 10:1 compression
ratio engine and it might reduce power a tiny bit.

I'd like to see GA homebuilt engines lead innovation similar to what is
happening in avionics. OTOH don't ask what I think about the CAT
converter on my new chainsaw...

Ken

Walter Klatt wrote:

Well, actually, I have seen the some RV's where they vent it to the exhaust.
That makes for a clean belly. But in my case, I am first trying to keep the
oil in the engine.

Walter

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Never heard of anyone doing it, but shouldn't be hard to drill a hole in the
airbox to route the crankcase venting back into the carb.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Ken
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 5:31 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Oil Separator

Understood that what the oil separator catches should drain back into
the crankcase. Oil separators don't catch everything though.

What the oil separator does not catch could be routed back into the
intake upstream of the carb. (Probably too much flow to route downstream
through a pcv valve) In addition to the environmental benefit this could
slightly improve smoothness and fuel economy. Has to do with better
vaporization due to more microscopic nuclei and more smaller fuel
droplets. Might even get a little top end lubrication.

Perhaps a bad idea if flirting with detonation on a 10:1 compression
ratio engine and it might reduce power a tiny bit.

I'd like to see GA homebuilt engines lead innovation similar to what is
happening in avionics. OTOH don't ask what I think about the CAT
converter on my new chainsaw...

Ken

Walter Klatt wrote:

Well, actually, I have seen the some RV's where they vent it to the

exhaust.

That makes for a clean belly. But in my case, I am first trying to keep

the

oil in the engine.

Walter

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