The Murphy Builders Site

Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:59 pm**

Don't think there are any man instructions, least I never found any, was on
my own and it took a lot of playing to find the best spot, height of
mounting can vary too, it's a crap shoot, will try to send pics on weekend

Cheers

Mike#007

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
schaumr@dcsol.com
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 3:54 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] Rebel brake cylinder floor attach bracket

Hi All,

I am positioning the master cylinder attach brackets on the floor as per
the "upgrade" (master cylinder tabs have been cut-off from the factory pedal

assembly). The document I have doesn't clearly show the final shape of
these brackets, where to drill the holes, or how far forward of the pedal
assembly they are typically installed.

I know the dimensions of the "rough" brackets that MAM sends in the upgrade
kits, but the install details would be really helpful.

Can anyone oblige? Photo? MAM instructions?

Also,
Has anyone heard from Roger Hoffman recently...I'm having trouble reaching
him at his dcsol email address.

Thanks!
Rob
Rebel 786

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:02 pm**

Mike,
If you don't mind, I would like to see your pictures of the master cylinder
mounts too. I've been trying to figure that out myself. If I mount the
pedals per my manual the lower mount would be right over the motor mount.
It does look like I could move the pedal over enough to get the mount beside
the motor mount and still not hit the side of the fuselage. Thanks much,
Joel
Rebel 416

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 4:46 PM, mike jones <mfjrebel007r@cogeco.ca> wrote:

Don't think there are any man instructions, least I never found any, was on
my own and it took a lot of playing to find the best spot, height of
mounting can vary too, it's a crap shoot, will try to send pics on weekend

Cheers

Mike#007

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
schaumr@dcsol.com
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 3:54 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] Rebel brake cylinder floor attach bracket

Hi All,

I am positioning the master cylinder attach brackets on the floor as per
the "upgrade" (master cylinder tabs have been cut-off from the factory
pedal

assembly). The document I have doesn't clearly show the final shape of
these brackets, where to drill the holes, or how far forward of the pedal
assembly they are typically installed.

I know the dimensions of the "rough" brackets that MAM sends in the upgrade
kits, but the install details would be really helpful.

Can anyone oblige? Photo? MAM instructions?

Also,
Has anyone heard from Roger Hoffman recently...I'm having trouble reaching
him at his dcsol email address.

Thanks!
Rob
Rebel 786

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:02 pm**

I posted a couple of pics of the pedal mount adaption on Rebel 049. Two pieces of overlapped alum. angle fitted together and trimmed. Bolted through doubler to floor. I also made up lots of extra witch's-hat stiffener and applied liberally in lots of places like up the center of the floor as you can see in the pic.

And, I mistakenly posted a picture of my V-braces under the SR/Moose so I re-posted under Rebel, sorry for the repeat......Angus

ps. Firewall is NOT cut back 0-320/McCauley combo.

Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 22:38:32 -0500
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel brake cylinder floor attach bracket
From: jj7499@gmail.com
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com

Mike,
If you don't mind, I would like to see your pictures of the master cylinder
mounts too. I've been trying to figure that out myself. If I mount the
pedals per my manual the lower mount would be right over the motor mount.
It does look like I could move the pedal over enough to get the mount beside
the motor mount and still not hit the side of the fuselage. Thanks much,
Joel
Rebel 416

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:02 pm**

I like the way you made the double nested angles and bolted the bearing
blocks through them. Seems like that would tie everything together nicely.
I notice you made some Bakelite bearing blocks that look like they move the
pedal assy aft and up? Was that necessary for correct geometry? I assume
what we are trying for is to get as close as possible to a parallelogram so
the brake pedal angle does not change as the rudders are moved.
Thanks for the pictures!

Joel

On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 11:36 PM, Angus McKenzie <angus.mckenzie@sympatico.ca

wrote:

I posted a couple of pics of the pedal mount adaption on Rebel 049. Two
pieces of overlapped alum. angle fitted together and trimmed. Bolted through
doubler to floor. I also made up lots of extra witch's-hat stiffener and
applied liberally in lots of places like up the center of the floor as you
can see in the pic.

And, I mistakenly posted a picture of my V-braces under the SR/Moose so I
re-posted under Rebel, sorry for the repeat......Angus

ps. Firewall is NOT cut back 0-320/McCauley combo.

Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 22:38:32 -0500
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel brake cylinder floor attach bracket
From: jj7499@gmail.com
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com

Mike,
If you don't mind, I would like to see your pictures of the master
cylinder
mounts too. I've been trying to figure that out myself. If I mount the
pedals per my manual the lower mount would be right over the motor mount.
It does look like I could move the pedal over enough to get the mount
beside
the motor mount and still not hit the side of the fuselage. Thanks much,
Joel
Rebel 416

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:02 pm**

I'd recommend putting the floor mount farther forward than a
parallelogram. That way the brake pedal stays more vertical (and
useable) when you have full forward rudder pedal. That also means the
pedals can be located farther forward or that you have less firewall
interference when wearing winter boots.

Otherwise you might as well just mount the bottom of the cylinder on the
rudder pedal as per the original MAM manual which has not worked out
well for some folks.

Yes keep the pedals as wide apart as you can to minimize the rudder
cable bend at the cage.

Ken

Joel Jacobs wrote:

I like the way you made the double nested angles and bolted the bearing
blocks through them. Seems like that would tie everything together nicely.
I notice you made some Bakelite bearing blocks that look like they move the
pedal assy aft and up? Was that necessary for correct geometry? I assume
what we are trying for is to get as close as possible to a parallelogram so
the brake pedal angle does not change as the rudders are moved.
Thanks for the pictures!

Joel

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:02 pm**

Will try harder this time to get pics, what ken says makes sense, don't
know if that is what I did
I made mock up on piece of plywood and moved cylinders around to try to
find optimal position
Don't know if I did as have not used them yet, once I fill them and run
engine guess I will see how I did
Any way will try to get some pics asap, also have some scan of another
rebel with floor mounted, so will send that too

Cheers

Ps-I got my prop yesterday, it has usa log book, do I need to get
canadian log book, do I need to do anything to use it in canada

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Joel Jacobs
Sent: February 2, 2010 10:39 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel brake cylinder floor attach bracket

Mike,
If you don't mind, I would like to see your pictures of the master
cylinder
mounts too. I've been trying to figure that out myself. If I mount the
pedals per my manual the lower mount would be right over the motor
mount.
It does look like I could move the pedal over enough to get the mount
beside
the motor mount and still not hit the side of the fuselage. Thanks
much,
Joel
Rebel 416

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 4:46 PM, mike jones <mfjrebel007r@cogeco.ca>
wrote:

Don't think there are any man instructions, least I never found any,

was on

my own and it took a lot of playing to find the best spot, height of
mounting can vary too, it's a crap shoot, will try to send pics on

weekend

Cheers

Mike#007

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
schaumr@dcsol.com
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 3:54 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] Rebel brake cylinder floor attach bracket

Hi All,

I am positioning the master cylinder attach brackets on the floor as

per

the "upgrade" (master cylinder tabs have been cut-off from the factory
pedal

assembly). The document I have doesn't clearly show the final shape

of

these brackets, where to drill the holes, or how far forward of the

pedal

assembly they are typically installed.

I know the dimensions of the "rough" brackets that MAM sends in the

upgrade

kits, but the install details would be really helpful.

Can anyone oblige? Photo? MAM instructions?

Also,
Has anyone heard from Roger Hoffman recently...I'm having trouble

reaching

him at his dcsol email address.

Thanks!
Rob
Rebel 786

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:03 pm**

Hi Joel,
The brake cylinders were originally mounted to the tabs on the rudder-pedals
but I amended this due to forward pedal travel issues. It was physically
impossible to apply max brake pressure at full rudder. Soooo I revised the
mount to the floor, that was better, but floor flex prevented positive the
braking pressure I'd hoped for. Then MAM offered an upgraded floor mount
with alum tabs (.040 I think) anyway I just one-upped their design with the
nested angles. This also allowed spreading the load over greater floor area.
As you surmised the phenolic blocks are for proper geometry. Not certain
about the parallelogram consideration. Just personal ergonomics.
Fastening the cylinders and pedals as pictured and switching from the
plastic lines (in the picture) to braided stainless and solid alum. tubing
made a world of difference in the function of the brakes on both wheels and
amphibs. And Chris Steeves helped me redo all the float plumbing, brakes and
hydraulics, to 3/8" stainless tubing so it's all good now.
If you see the earlier posted pictures of my home-made hydraulic oil tank
for my float pump you might notice there is no alum angle to spread the
floor loading during the pump stroke. I had to redo a lot under the cabin
floor (doublers on gear-attach bulkheads) so while I had the cabin belly
skin off I made up sub-floor bracing for the pump and installed riveted
anchor-nuts so the cabin floor stays clear. ............Angus

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel Jacobs" <jj7499@gmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 12:11 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel brake cylinder floor attach bracket

I like the way you made the double nested angles and bolted the bearing
blocks through them. Seems like that would tie everything together
nicely.
I notice you made some Bakelite bearing blocks that look like they move
the
pedal assy aft and up? Was that necessary for correct geometry? I assume
what we are trying for is to get as close as possible to a parallelogram
so
the brake pedal angle does not change as the rudders are moved.
Thanks for the pictures!

Joel

On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 11:36 PM, Angus McKenzie
<angus.mckenzie@sympatico.ca
wrote:

I posted a couple of pics of the pedal mount adaption on Rebel 049. Two
pieces of overlapped alum. angle fitted together and trimmed. Bolted
through
doubler to floor. I also made up lots of extra witch's-hat stiffener and
applied liberally in lots of places like up the center of the floor as
you
can see in the pic.

And, I mistakenly posted a picture of my V-braces under the SR/Moose so I
re-posted under Rebel, sorry for the repeat......Angus

ps. Firewall is NOT cut back 0-320/McCauley combo.

Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 22:38:32 -0500
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel brake cylinder floor attach bracket
From: jj7499@gmail.com
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com

Mike,
If you don't mind, I would like to see your pictures of the master
cylinder
mounts too. I've been trying to figure that out myself. If I mount the
pedals per my manual the lower mount would be right over the motor
mount.
It does look like I could move the pedal over enough to get the mount
beside
the motor mount and still not hit the side of the fuselage. Thanks
much,
Joel
Rebel 416

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:03 pm**

Rob:

Purchased the brake "modification kit" from MAM, but soon found out that the angle brackets were too short for what I thought I wanted to accomplish. Re-bent some .060 and made them taller (longer).

Posted a couple photos to the Rebel Group Archives of the way I installed MY pilot brake cylinders to the floor. Wanted to make the cylinders parallelogram to the pedal vertical tubes. FWIW.

This configuration may or may not work. It is just the way I did it. Note that I installed a doubler at the floor to stiffen the area where the brackets attach. Haven't finished the airplane yet, so have only tried it in theory.

Terry Dazey
Rebel 662

Hi All,

I am positioning the master cylinder attach brackets on the floor as per
the "upgrade" (master cylinder tabs have been cut-off from the factory pedal
assembly). The document I have doesn't clearly show the final shape of
these brackets, where to drill the holes, or how far forward of the pedal
assembly they are typically installed.

I know the dimensions of the "rough" brackets that MAM sends in the upgrade
kits, but the install details would be really helpful.

Can anyone oblige? Photo? MAM instructions?

Also,
Has anyone heard from Roger Hoffman recently...I'm having trouble reaching
him at his dcsol email address.

Thanks!
Rob
Rebel 786

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:03 pm**

Terry,

I too, found the combination of bracket height + brake cylinder insufficient to
position the brake pedal in a vertical orientation (more-or-less parallel to
firewall). The bracket height in my view would have to be 0.5 to 1" higher,
but I had to double check with folks to make sure I wasn't missing something.

With your information and photos, as well as those provided by Angus
Mckenzie, I can now go ahead and fabricate some new brackets.

Thanks so much to you, Angus, and others for responding to the post, and for
uploading some very helpful photos.

Rob

On 2/9/2010 9:00 AM, dazey@earthlink.net wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Rob:
->
-> Purchased the brake "modification kit" from MAM, but soon found out that
the angle brackets were too short for what I thought I wanted to accomplish.
Re-bent some .060 and made them taller (longer).
->
-> Posted a couple photos to the Rebel Group Archives of the way I installed
MY pilot brake cylinders to the floor. Wanted to make the cylinders
parallelogram to the pedal vertical tubes. FWIW.
->
-> This configuration may or may not work. It is just the way I did it. Note
that I installed a doubler at the floor to stiffen the area where the brackets
attach. Haven't finished the airplane yet, so have only tried it in theory.
->
-> Terry Dazey
-> Rebel 662
->
->
-> >Hi All,
-> >
-> >I am positioning the master cylinder attach brackets on the floor as per
-> >the "upgrade" (master cylinder tabs have been cut-off from the factory
pedal
-> >assembly). The document I have doesn't clearly show the final shape of
-> >these brackets, where to drill the holes, or how far forward of the pedal
-> >assembly they are typically installed.
-> >
-> >I know the dimensions of the "rough" brackets that MAM sends in the
upgrade
-> >kits, but the install details would be really helpful.
-> >
-> >Can anyone oblige? Photo? MAM instructions?
-> >
-> >Also,
-> >Has anyone heard from Roger Hoffman recently...I'm having trouble
reaching
-> >him at his dcsol email address.
-> >
-> >Thanks!
-> >Rob
-> >Rebel 786

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:03 pm**

Ditto!

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 8:20 PM, <schaumr@dcsol.com> wrote:

Mckenzie, I can now go ahead and fabricate some new brackets.

Thanks so much to you, Angus, and others for responding to the post, and
for
uploading some very helpful photos.

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