The Murphy Builders Site

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:34 pm**

Could some of you flying the Rebel/Subaru 2.2 combination publish your
aircraft's empty weight? I'm trying to make some preliminary decisions
regarding engine choices.

Thanks,

Roger #687R
Eugene, OR USA

----- Original Message -----
From: "list-server" <list-server@dcsol.com>
To: <rognal@continet.com>
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2000 9:00 PM
Subject: murphy-rebel Digest for 17 Nov 2000

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The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
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murphy-rebel Digest for 17 Nov 2000

Topics covered in this issue include:

1: pedals & subaru engines
by "Geert Frank" <storchpilot@mediaone.net>
2: pedals & subaru engines
by Geert Frank <storchpilot@mediaone.net>
3: Re: pedals & subaru engines
by BILNEWKIRK@aol.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Message:0001 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Geert Frank" <storchpilot@mediaone.net>
To: "murphy archives" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: pedals & subaru engines

Hi BilNewkirk, before I go into Subaru engine question, once more about

that

Kinden rudder pedal mod. I clearly recall that placement of rudder pedals
was sort of left to builder, reference distance from the firewall. I am of
course talking about the early builders and their manual with some
shortcomings. ( I also have no idea what would happen if you moved that
firewall 3 inches back. You either wound up with the firewall much too

close

to the pedals or the damn pedals right underneath your feet!). Anyway, I

set

my pedals back a respectful distance from the firewall, but after I

started

taxiing around many months later, because the way the brake pedal

swivelled

at the end of the rudderpedal travel, my foot kept bumping into the
firewall! Before I had a chance to apply any useful braking. As I said a

few

times before, this gave me a Lockheed L-1011 turning radius. What Keith's
mod in essence did, was to swivel the top of the pedals aft so they are

now

effective even at full rudderpedal. It sounds like a bunch of

hairsplitting,

but the proof was surely in the pudding the time I installed those

modified

pedals, instant success. It was also somewhat assuring that an experienced
builder like Keith had obviously run into the same problem as I had.
Now Bill's Subaru inquiry. It remains a difficult question to answer. One
first and main point, underlined by the few replies from folks with a lot
more time on their engines than I have: there is absolutely no loss in
reliability. Period.
I utilize a Warp Drive 3 bladed prop( 72" tapered blades s/n T 6782). I

have

a stock 2.2 Legacy engine, puts out 5250 engine RPM on take-off, I use

4900

RPM for cruise. I started out with a VW Jetta radiator and had myself 9
months of cooling headaches. On the advice of a fellow builder I switched

to

a Ron Davis race car radiator ( $ 350) and that ended all cooling

problems.

I utilize a Ross Aero drive, I was very apprehensive about any reduction
gear, but that was totally unfounded. In other words the thing does just
fine. I am sure there are other reduction set-ups that will do just as

well.

I am utilizing an aircraft type oilcooler($ 290), no problem. The prop by
the way cost me $ 935 in 1996. A few things I am still trying to correct:

1.

I lost one of the many advantages of using an automotive conversion, when

it

is cold, the engine does not start readily. I am sure it is in my set-up,
after all the car starts right away. I have no idea why this is so. 2.

130

HP is all this 2.2 engine delivers, I would go for at least a 2.5 engine,

I

could sure use a little more oompf. Those trees are pretty high at the end
of my strip. It must also be noted, that re-sale may be somewhat effected.
Most people prefer to sit behind a Lycoming no matter how old. This

brings

me to the final choice. Where to buy the Subaru?Junkyard with all the

wiring

and computer or "professional converter"? In the past I have praised
Eggenfellner and still would as far as his technical savvy on the complete
firewall forward is concerned. Now I have to add a warning: do NOT send

him

a deposit. Put the money for the whole set-up in escrow with his bank and
only after he delivers you the complete set-up will you release the money

to

him. I hope this guy can get his financial act together he is one heck of

a

technician. Apart from all this you still have to pay these professionals

a

significant amount of money, for everything firewall forward. So where is
the advantage? If I had known then what I know now, I would have been able
to do everything firewall forward including the prop for around $ 8000 to

$

9000, that is about half what you will have to spend with Eggenfellner,
Stratus, Dave B. or Crossflow. This do-it-yourself-figure is going to be
somewhat higher now, primarily because the reduction units are now more
costly. Maybe as high as $ 11,000 and you will have to have the savvy to
mount the engine correctly and figure out the computer, reduce the intake
manifold's size,etc. So maybe you are better off buying a ready to go
set-up. I really do not know. That is why I said "it is a difficult

question

to answer". To confuse matters even more, here comes that 6cyl Subaru
engine, they are now offering at the dealer. Only fifty pounds heavier and
only a few inches longer, but 200 HP! Decisions, decisions! Best regards,
Geert.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Message:0002 2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Marcia Moran" <rover@triax.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: pedals & subaru engines

Geert I solved my starting cold by installing a subaru factory block

heater

which I have on a timer. In cold weather 0 far. I let it heat about 6

hours.

In warm weather I give it about 3. I use the heater year around and it
always starts like a warm engine. It also does not kick back against the
prop. Dave rover@triax.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Geert Frank <storchpilot@mediaone.net>
To: murphy archives <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Friday, November 17, 2000 8:07 AM
Subject: pedals & subaru engines

Hi BilNewkirk, before I go into Subaru engine question, once more about
that
Kinden rudder pedal mod. I clearly recall that placement of rudder pedals
was sort of left to builder, reference distance from the firewall. I am

of

course talking about the early builders and their manual with some
shortcomings. ( I also have no idea what would happen if you moved that
firewall 3 inches back. You either wound up with the firewall much too
close
to the pedals or the damn pedals right underneath your feet!). Anyway, I
set
my pedals back a respectful distance from the firewall, but after I

started

taxiing around many months later, because the way the brake pedal

swivelled

at the end of the rudderpedal travel, my foot kept bumping into the
firewall! Before I had a chance to apply any useful braking. As I said a
few
times before, this gave me a Lockheed L-1011 turning radius. What Keith's
mod in essence did, was to swivel the top of the pedals aft so they are

now

effective even at full rudderpedal. It sounds like a bunch of
hairsplitting,
but the proof was surely in the pudding the time I installed those

modified

pedals, instant success. It was also somewhat assuring that an

experienced

builder like Keith had obviously run into the same problem as I had.
Now Bill's Subaru inquiry. It remains a difficult question to answer. One
first and main point, underlined by the few replies from folks with a lot
more time on their engines than I have: there is absolutely no loss in
reliability. Period.
I utilize a Warp Drive 3 bladed prop( 72" tapered blades s/n T 6782). I
have
a stock 2.2 Legacy engine, puts out 5250 engine RPM on take-off, I use

4900

RPM for cruise. I started out with a VW Jetta radiator and had myself 9
months of cooling headaches. On the advice of a fellow builder I switched
to
a Ron Davis race car radiator ( $ 350) and that ended all cooling

problems.

I utilize a Ross Aero drive, I was very apprehensive about any reduction
gear, but that was totally unfounded. In other words the thing does just
fine. I am sure there are other reduction set-ups that will do just as
well.
I am utilizing an aircraft type oilcooler($ 290), no problem. The prop by
the way cost me $ 935 in 1996. A few things I am still trying to correct:
1.
I lost one of the many advantages of using an automotive conversion, when
it
is cold, the engine does not start readily. I am sure it is in my set-up,
after all the car starts right away. I have no idea why this is so. 2.

130

HP is all this 2.2 engine delivers, I would go for at least a 2.5 engine,

I

could sure use a little more oompf. Those trees are pretty high at the

end

of my strip. It must also be noted, that re-sale may be somewhat

effected.

Most people prefer to sit behind a Lycoming no matter how old. This

brings

me to the final choice. Where to buy the Subaru?Junkyard with all the
wiring
and computer or "professional converter"? In the past I have praised
Eggenfellner and still would as far as his technical savvy on the

complete

firewall forward is concerned. Now I have to add a warning: do NOT send

him

a deposit. Put the money for the whole set-up in escrow with his bank and
only after he delivers you the complete set-up will you release the money
to
him. I hope this guy can get his financial act together he is one heck of

a

technician. Apart from all this you still have to pay these professionals

a

significant amount of money, for everything firewall forward. So where is
the advantage? If I had known then what I know now, I would have been

able

to do everything firewall forward including the prop for around $ 8000 to

$

9000, that is about half what you will have to spend with Eggenfellner,
Stratus, Dave B. or Crossflow. This do-it-yourself-figure is going to be
somewhat higher now, primarily because the reduction units are now more
costly. Maybe as high as $ 11,000 and you will have to have the savvy to
mount the engine correctly and figure out the computer, reduce the intake
manifold's size,etc. So maybe you are better off buying a ready to go
set-up. I really do not know. That is why I said "it is a difficult
question
to answer". To confuse matters even more, here comes that 6cyl Subaru
engine, they are now offering at the dealer. Only fifty pounds heavier

and

only a few inches longer, but 200 HP! Decisions, decisions! Best

regards,

Geert.

*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------*

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
3 Message:0003 3
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: BILNEWKIRK@aol.com
Subject: Re: pedals & subaru engines
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com

--part1_95.3181289.2746c6cb_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

GEERT;
THANKS FOR YOUR REPLY ON THE SUBARU. WHERE DID YOU END UP PLACING YOUR
RADIATOR?

BILL NEWKIEK

--part1_95.3181289.2746c6cb_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML>GEERT;
 THANKS FOR YOUR REPLY ON THE SUBARU.  WHERE DID YOU END UP

PLACING YOUR RADIATOR?

BILL NEWKIEK</HTML>

--part1_95.3181289.2746c6cb_boundary--

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between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:34 pm**

Rebel 206 empty weight is 1030. cg is 10.89
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger & Alice Hoffman <rognal@continet.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Saturday, November 18, 2000 5:56 PM
Subject: Subaru 2.2

Could some of you flying the Rebel/Subaru 2.2 combination publish your
aircraft's empty weight? I'm trying to make some preliminary decisions
regarding engine choices.

Thanks,

Roger #687R
Eugene, OR USA

----- Original Message -----
From: "list-server" <list-server@dcsol.com>
To: <rognal@continet.com>
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2000 9:00 PM
Subject: murphy-rebel Digest for 17 Nov 2000

*--------------------------------------------------------------------------

-

--------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm

*--------------------------------------------------------------------------

-

--------*
murphy-rebel Digest for 17 Nov 2000

Topics covered in this issue include:

1: pedals & subaru engines
by "Geert Frank" <storchpilot@mediaone.net>
2: pedals & subaru engines
by Geert Frank <storchpilot@mediaone.net>
3: Re: pedals & subaru engines
by BILNEWKIRK@aol.com

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

-

1 Message:0001

1

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

-

From: "Geert Frank" <storchpilot@mediaone.net>
To: "murphy archives" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: pedals & subaru engines

Hi BilNewkirk, before I go into Subaru engine question, once more about
that
Kinden rudder pedal mod. I clearly recall that placement of rudder pedals
was sort of left to builder, reference distance from the firewall. I am

of

course talking about the early builders and their manual with some
shortcomings. ( I also have no idea what would happen if you moved that
firewall 3 inches back. You either wound up with the firewall much too
close
to the pedals or the damn pedals right underneath your feet!). Anyway, I
set
my pedals back a respectful distance from the firewall, but after I
started
taxiing around many months later, because the way the brake pedal
swivelled
at the end of the rudderpedal travel, my foot kept bumping into the
firewall! Before I had a chance to apply any useful braking. As I said a
few
times before, this gave me a Lockheed L-1011 turning radius. What Keith's
mod in essence did, was to swivel the top of the pedals aft so they are
now
effective even at full rudderpedal. It sounds like a bunch of
hairsplitting,
but the proof was surely in the pudding the time I installed those
modified
pedals, instant success. It was also somewhat assuring that an

experienced

builder like Keith had obviously run into the same problem as I had.
Now Bill's Subaru inquiry. It remains a difficult question to answer. One
first and main point, underlined by the few replies from folks with a lot
more time on their engines than I have: there is absolutely no loss in
reliability. Period.
I utilize a Warp Drive 3 bladed prop( 72" tapered blades s/n T 6782). I
have
a stock 2.2 Legacy engine, puts out 5250 engine RPM on take-off, I use
4900
RPM for cruise. I started out with a VW Jetta radiator and had myself 9
months of cooling headaches. On the advice of a fellow builder I switched
to
a Ron Davis race car radiator ( $ 350) and that ended all cooling
problems.
I utilize a Ross Aero drive, I was very apprehensive about any reduction
gear, but that was totally unfounded. In other words the thing does just
fine. I am sure there are other reduction set-ups that will do just as
well.
I am utilizing an aircraft type oilcooler($ 290), no problem. The prop by
the way cost me $ 935 in 1996. A few things I am still trying to correct:
1.
I lost one of the many advantages of using an automotive conversion, when
it
is cold, the engine does not start readily. I am sure it is in my set-up,
after all the car starts right away. I have no idea why this is so. 2.
130
HP is all this 2.2 engine delivers, I would go for at least a 2.5 engine,
I
could sure use a little more oompf. Those trees are pretty high at the

end

of my strip. It must also be noted, that re-sale may be somewhat

effected.

Most people prefer to sit behind a Lycoming no matter how old. This
brings
me to the final choice. Where to buy the Subaru?Junkyard with all the
wiring
and computer or "professional converter"? In the past I have praised
Eggenfellner and still would as far as his technical savvy on the

complete

firewall forward is concerned. Now I have to add a warning: do NOT send
him
a deposit. Put the money for the whole set-up in escrow with his bank and
only after he delivers you the complete set-up will you release the money
to
him. I hope this guy can get his financial act together he is one heck of
a
technician. Apart from all this you still have to pay these professionals
a
significant amount of money, for everything firewall forward. So where is
the advantage? If I had known then what I know now, I would have been

able

to do everything firewall forward including the prop for around $ 8000 to
$
9000, that is about half what you will have to spend with Eggenfellner,
Stratus, Dave B. or Crossflow. This do-it-yourself-figure is going to be
somewhat higher now, primarily because the reduction units are now more
costly. Maybe as high as $ 11,000 and you will have to have the savvy to
mount the engine correctly and figure out the computer, reduce the intake
manifold's size,etc. So maybe you are better off buying a ready to go
set-up. I really do not know. That is why I said "it is a difficult
question
to answer". To confuse matters even more, here comes that 6cyl Subaru
engine, they are now offering at the dealer. Only fifty pounds heavier

and

only a few inches longer, but 200 HP! Decisions, decisions! Best

regards,

Geert.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

-

2 Message:0002

2

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

-

From: "Marcia Moran" <rover@triax.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: pedals & subaru engines

Geert I solved my starting cold by installing a subaru factory block
heater
which I have on a timer. In cold weather 0 far. I let it heat about 6
hours.
In warm weather I give it about 3. I use the heater year around and it
always starts like a warm engine. It also does not kick back against the
prop. Dave rover@triax.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Geert Frank <storchpilot@mediaone.net>
To: murphy archives <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Friday, November 17, 2000 8:07 AM
Subject: pedals & subaru engines

Hi BilNewkirk, before I go into Subaru engine question, once more about
that
Kinden rudder pedal mod. I clearly recall that placement of rudder

pedals

was sort of left to builder, reference distance from the firewall. I am
of
course talking about the early builders and their manual with some
shortcomings. ( I also have no idea what would happen if you moved that
firewall 3 inches back. You either wound up with the firewall much too
close
to the pedals or the damn pedals right underneath your feet!). Anyway, I
set
my pedals back a respectful distance from the firewall, but after I
started
taxiing around many months later, because the way the brake pedal
swivelled
at the end of the rudderpedal travel, my foot kept bumping into the
firewall! Before I had a chance to apply any useful braking. As I said a
few
times before, this gave me a Lockheed L-1011 turning radius. What

Keith's

mod in essence did, was to swivel the top of the pedals aft so they are
now
effective even at full rudderpedal. It sounds like a bunch of
hairsplitting,
but the proof was surely in the pudding the time I installed those
modified
pedals, instant success. It was also somewhat assuring that an
experienced
builder like Keith had obviously run into the same problem as I had.
Now Bill's Subaru inquiry. It remains a difficult question to answer.

One

first and main point, underlined by the few replies from folks with a

lot

more time on their engines than I have: there is absolutely no loss in
reliability. Period.
I utilize a Warp Drive 3 bladed prop( 72" tapered blades s/n T 6782). I
have
a stock 2.2 Legacy engine, puts out 5250 engine RPM on take-off, I use
4900
RPM for cruise. I started out with a VW Jetta radiator and had myself 9
months of cooling headaches. On the advice of a fellow builder I

switched

to
a Ron Davis race car radiator ( $ 350) and that ended all cooling
problems.
I utilize a Ross Aero drive, I was very apprehensive about any reduction
gear, but that was totally unfounded. In other words the thing does just
fine. I am sure there are other reduction set-ups that will do just as
well.
I am utilizing an aircraft type oilcooler($ 290), no problem. The prop

by

the way cost me $ 935 in 1996. A few things I am still trying to

correct:

1.
I lost one of the many advantages of using an automotive conversion,

when

it
is cold, the engine does not start readily. I am sure it is in my

set-up,

after all the car starts right away. I have no idea why this is so. 2.
130
HP is all this 2.2 engine delivers, I would go for at least a 2.5

engine,

I
could sure use a little more oompf. Those trees are pretty high at the
end
of my strip. It must also be noted, that re-sale may be somewhat
effected.
Most people prefer to sit behind a Lycoming no matter how old. This
brings
me to the final choice. Where to buy the Subaru?Junkyard with all the
wiring
and computer or "professional converter"? In the past I have praised
Eggenfellner and still would as far as his technical savvy on the
complete
firewall forward is concerned. Now I have to add a warning: do NOT send
him
a deposit. Put the money for the whole set-up in escrow with his bank

and

only after he delivers you the complete set-up will you release the

money

to
him. I hope this guy can get his financial act together he is one heck

of

a
technician. Apart from all this you still have to pay these

professionals

a
significant amount of money, for everything firewall forward. So where

is

the advantage? If I had known then what I know now, I would have been
able
to do everything firewall forward including the prop for around $ 8000

to

$
9000, that is about half what you will have to spend with Eggenfellner,
Stratus, Dave B. or Crossflow. This do-it-yourself-figure is going to be
somewhat higher now, primarily because the reduction units are now more
costly. Maybe as high as $ 11,000 and you will have to have the savvy to
mount the engine correctly and figure out the computer, reduce the

intake

manifold's size,etc. So maybe you are better off buying a ready to go
set-up. I really do not know. That is why I said "it is a difficult
question
to answer". To confuse matters even more, here comes that 6cyl Subaru
engine, they are now offering at the dealer. Only fifty pounds heavier
and
only a few inches longer, but 200 HP! Decisions, decisions! Best
regards,
Geert.

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------

-

---------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------

-

---------*

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

-

3 Message:0003

3

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

-

From: BILNEWKIRK@aol.com
Subject: Re: pedals & subaru engines
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com

--part1_95.3181289.2746c6cb_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

GEERT;
THANKS FOR YOUR REPLY ON THE SUBARU. WHERE DID YOU END UP PLACING YOUR
RADIATOR?

BILL NEWKIEK

--part1_95.3181289.2746c6cb_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML>GEERT;
 THANKS FOR YOUR REPLY ON THE SUBARU.  WHERE DID YOU END UP
PLACING YOUR RADIATOR?
 
 BILL NEWKIEK</HTML>

--part1_95.3181289.2746c6cb_boundary--

*--------------------------------------------------------------------------

---------*

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between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------

---------*

*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
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between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
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*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:34 pm**

In a message dated 11/18/00 8:01:45 PM Central Standard Time,
rognal@continet.com writes:

Could some of you flying the Rebel/Subaru 2.2 combination publish your
aircraft's empty weight

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:34 pm**

In a message dated 11/18/00 8:01:45 PM Central Standard Time,
rognal@continet.com writes:

Could some of you flying the Rebel/Subaru 2.2 combination publish your
aircraft's empty weight

Rebel N414D Weighed in at 994Lb spring gear, full floor, two tone Imron
paint, full panel plus all the auto gauges. Can't remember the CofG off hand
but I think it was at 14". That's with the fire wall cut back 3". I'm running
a Ross redrive, very nice unit
but one of the heaviest redrive out there. And a 3 blade square tip 72" prop.
Phil&Lisa Smith N414D

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