The Murphy Builders Site

Hi Roland,

I remember that the joggled side of the B head slipped under nicely and the
other side left a small space which was easily pro-sealed. How big are we
talking? Craig




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The gap is about 1/8 inch. Can proseal handle that?

Another question... I have not yet worked with proseal, and have just
received my first pint with the accelerator. I am assuming that the shelf
life refers to it as is, and not mixed. Once the accelerator is in, how much
working time do I have?

Roland
R56


-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of craig
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 11:57 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Sealing Tank

Hi Roland,

I remember that the joggled side of the B head slipped under nicely and the
other side left a small space which was easily pro-sealed. How big are we
talking? Craig




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Hello Roland

Typically tie down rings replace one of the five AN4 bolts at the top
wing strut fitting with a 5/16" bolt and ring. Think I used the second
hole from the top. I purchased the ones from MAM which are a stainless
ring welded to a stainless 5/16" coarse threaded rod. I did not use them
but in retrospect I think they would have been fine. I used a stainless
female marine eye on a grade 5 bolt. Some guys put a bracket at the wing
tip but that is generally not a good idea as the wing is a lever that
can apply very strong in and out forces on the aft fuselage wing root
fitting. That has been known to do structural damage on other aircraft
especially if the tail is not tied well and the wind weathercocks the
aircraft. Pushing a low wing aircraft from the wing tip is similarly not
recommended.

Proseal will seal small gaps rather well especially if you can fillet
it. Personally I like a spacer/bracket or something if more than about a
1/16" gap. I don't think it ever hurts to make brackets unless it is an
area subject to movement which is not the case for our tanks. Most leaks
seem to be at the top of the tank. Since the top goes together last, it
is more problematic to put a good filet in the proseal there.

Yes proseal shelf life is prior to mixing but store it in a freezer or a
cold place if keeping it a long time and it will last for years. Bring
it up to near room temperature and stir the hardener before you measure
it out. You can buy proseal in various hardening times with the common
B-2 being 2 hours of working time at room temperature and typical
humidity. B-1/2 is too quick for most of us. Temperature has a large
effect so mix small batches till you get used to it. Some guys like to
wear two pairs of disposable gloves.

Ken

Roland Kriening wrote:

On the rear bulkheads in the fuel tank, where they meet the top skin and top
of the ribs, there is a small gap between the top flange on the bulkhead and
the rib. The other side slips under the rib flange and can easily be
prosealed. I cannot find the section in the plans that covers this specific
area. Are we to make small angle brackets similar to some of the other
corners...? I must be missing something.

Also, I am ordering tie down rings... where to they attach??


Roland
R56

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Ken

If you did not use those rings, what did you use

Cheers

Mike jones

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Ken
Sent: November 12, 2009 10:13 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Sealing Tank

Hello Roland

Typically tie down rings replace one of the five AN4 bolts at the top
wing strut fitting with a 5/16" bolt and ring. Think I used the second
hole from the top. I purchased the ones from MAM which are a stainless
ring welded to a stainless 5/16" coarse threaded rod. I did not use them

but in retrospect I think they would have been fine. I used a stainless
female marine eye on a grade 5 bolt. Some guys put a bracket at the wing

tip but that is generally not a good idea as the wing is a lever that
can apply very strong in and out forces on the aft fuselage wing root
fitting. That has been known to do structural damage on other aircraft
especially if the tail is not tied well and the wind weathercocks the
aircraft. Pushing a low wing aircraft from the wing tip is similarly not

recommended.

Proseal will seal small gaps rather well especially if you can fillet
it. Personally I like a spacer/bracket or something if more than about a

1/16" gap. I don't think it ever hurts to make brackets unless it is an
area subject to movement which is not the case for our tanks. Most leaks

seem to be at the top of the tank. Since the top goes together last, it
is more problematic to put a good filet in the proseal there.

Yes proseal shelf life is prior to mixing but store it in a freezer or a

cold place if keeping it a long time and it will last for years. Bring
it up to near room temperature and stir the hardener before you measure
it out. You can buy proseal in various hardening times with the common
B-2 being 2 hours of working time at room temperature and typical
humidity. B-1/2 is too quick for most of us. Temperature has a large
effect so mix small batches till you get used to it. Some guys like to
wear two pairs of disposable gloves.

Ken

Roland Kriening wrote:

On the rear bulkheads in the fuel tank, where they meet the top skin

and top

of the ribs, there is a small gap between the top flange on the

bulkhead and

the rib. The other side slips under the rib flange and can easily be
prosealed. I cannot find the section in the plans that covers this

specific

area. Are we to make small angle brackets similar to some of the other
corners...? I must be missing something.

Also, I am ordering tie down rings... where to they attach??


Roland
R56

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Roland,

We found that two hours working time wasn't enough for us especially
when you get your tools gummed up with Proseal. A handy box of nitrile
gloves is essential! I purchased a stack of plastic shot glasses from
the Dollar Store and when you have a larger job such as the tank
bottom/top mix up enough for the job and divvy it up in the shot
glasses. Put them all back in the freezer and use them one at a time as
you progress. This takes the heat off getting the job done in the two
hour working time. It comes out of the freezer just flexible enough to
work with it right away and quickly warms up. We used acid brushes with
most of the bristle cut off to make it stiffer.

Bob
773E





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Jones, Michael wrote:

Ken

If you did not use those rings, what did you use

Cheers

Mike jones
snip
I used a stainless
female marine eye on a grade 5 bolt.

Mike I believe I purchased them from Westcoast Marine. They screw on the
end of a bolt and take the place of a nut.

Ken



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And...don't wear anything you like while pro-sealing!


Original Message:
-----------------
From: Ken klehman@albedo.net
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 10:12:52 -0500
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Sealing Tank


Hello Roland

Typically tie down rings replace one of the five AN4 bolts at the top
wing strut fitting with a 5/16" bolt and ring. Think I used the second
hole from the top. I purchased the ones from MAM which are a stainless
ring welded to a stainless 5/16" coarse threaded rod. I did not use them
but in retrospect I think they would have been fine. I used a stainless
female marine eye on a grade 5 bolt. Some guys put a bracket at the wing
tip but that is generally not a good idea as the wing is a lever that
can apply very strong in and out forces on the aft fuselage wing root
fitting. That has been known to do structural damage on other aircraft
especially if the tail is not tied well and the wind weathercocks the
aircraft. Pushing a low wing aircraft from the wing tip is similarly not
recommended.

Proseal will seal small gaps rather well especially if you can fillet
it. Personally I like a spacer/bracket or something if more than about a
1/16" gap. I don't think it ever hurts to make brackets unless it is an
area subject to movement which is not the case for our tanks. Most leaks
seem to be at the top of the tank. Since the top goes together last, it
is more problematic to put a good filet in the proseal there.

Yes proseal shelf life is prior to mixing but store it in a freezer or a
cold place if keeping it a long time and it will last for years. Bring
it up to near room temperature and stir the hardener before you measure
it out. You can buy proseal in various hardening times with the common
B-2 being 2 hours of working time at room temperature and typical
humidity. B-1/2 is too quick for most of us. Temperature has a large
effect so mix small batches till you get used to it. Some guys like to
wear two pairs of disposable gloves.

Ken

Roland Kriening wrote:

On the rear bulkheads in the fuel tank, where they meet the top skin and

top

of the ribs, there is a small gap between the top flange on the bulkhead

and

the rib. The other side slips under the rib flange and can easily be
prosealed. I cannot find the section in the plans that covers this

specific

area. Are we to make small angle brackets similar to some of the other
corners...? I must be missing something.

Also, I am ordering tie down rings... where to they attach??


Roland
R56

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