The Murphy Builders Site

If I understand your post correctly, it doesn't seem as if you'll be able to
get the gap at the front edge reduced much. That sure seems like an
excessive amount to me. If I "had to" work with it, worst-case, maybe I'd
use some proseal to close the gap. If I did it that way, I'd put 1"+ wide
masking tape on the wing skin right along where the edge of the tip will
join. Then I'd put proseal on the inside of the tip and fit/cleco
everything. Pull the masking tape off after about an hour and you'll have a
clean edge.

Maybe someone else has a better approach--that sure seems like a big gap.

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Ron
Shannon
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 5:45 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] wing tip gap

I'm fitting my Fife wing tips and, before drilling any fastener holes, I
have a 1/8"-5/32" gap between the wing tip and the leading edge, even after
pushing the tip back against the leading edge as much as (reasonably)
possible. I have trimmed some extra wing skin that extended beyond the tip
rib, to keep the overlap between wing skin and the inside of the tip no more
than necessary, i.e., on the relatively thin inner edge of wing tip. When I
locate and drill it, the first fastener (high, forward) will pull the gap
closed along the top surface, but will also tend make any gap right at the
leading edge rather permanent.

Is some gap normal? If so, what gap do people have, if any, when fully
installed? Is there a technique for minimizing the gap I maybe haven't
considered?

Ron
254R




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Thanks, Ted. I'd rather bring the fiberglass down closer to the leading
edge, as opposed to just filling the gap, if possible. The thickness of the
fiberglass increases rapidly -- mostly on account of glass buildup for the
"frame" of the landing light opening -- and I think that may be what is
causing the tip to stand off from the leading edge. The two additional
things I've thought of attempting are A) sanding the first ~3/4" of the
tip's inside surface so it's not as thick around the leading edge area, and
B) cutting out the landing light hole cutout sooner rather than later, which
may make the leading edge of the tip more flexible there.

Ron


On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 4:59 PM, Ted Waltman <ted@vafm.org> wrote:

If I understand your post correctly, it doesn't seem as if you'll be able
to
get the gap at the front edge reduced much. That sure seems like an
excessive amount to me. If I "had to" work with it, worst-case, maybe I'd
use some proseal to close the gap. If I did it that way, I'd put 1"+ wide
masking tape on the wing skin right along where the edge of the tip will
join. Then I'd put proseal on the inside of the tip and fit/cleco
everything. Pull the masking tape off after about an hour and you'll have
a
clean edge.

Maybe someone else has a better approach--that sure seems like a big gap.

Ted

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If you sand the first ~3/4 of the tip, gaining fit flexibility, you could
simply monitor the tip closely, especially during early test flights, for
fatigue cracks. Then, if you had cracks, you could put thin "veil" (or
maybe 2oz cloth) fiberglass over the suspect area and build it up bit by bit
until no further problems are seen. Using some lightweight filler you could
sand the covered area to the same flared shape of the tip and no one would
know the difference.

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Ron
Shannon
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 6:11 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] wing tip gap

Thanks, Ted. I'd rather bring the fiberglass down closer to the leading
edge, as opposed to just filling the gap, if possible. The thickness of the
fiberglass increases rapidly -- mostly on account of glass buildup for the
"frame" of the landing light opening -- and I think that may be what is
causing the tip to stand off from the leading edge. The two additional
things I've thought of attempting are A) sanding the first ~3/4" of the
tip's inside surface so it's not as thick around the leading edge area, and
B) cutting out the landing light hole cutout sooner rather than later, which
may make the leading edge of the tip more flexible there.

Ron


On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 4:59 PM, Ted Waltman <ted@vafm.org> wrote:

If I understand your post correctly, it doesn't seem as if you'll be able
to
get the gap at the front edge reduced much. That sure seems like an
excessive amount to me. If I "had to" work with it, worst-case, maybe I'd
use some proseal to close the gap. If I did it that way, I'd put 1"+ wide
masking tape on the wing skin right along where the edge of the tip will
join. Then I'd put proseal on the inside of the tip and fit/cleco
everything. Pull the masking tape off after about an hour and you'll have
a
clean edge.

Maybe someone else has a better approach--that sure seems like a big gap.

Ted

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Problem solved... I think. More sanding on both the wing skin edge, bringing
it closer to flush with the tip rib, and sanding a wider band on the inside
of the wing tip edge, making it thinner -- did the trick. In short, I just
needed to do more. Dave makes a fine wing tip and plenty strong, though
perhaps a bit thicker in this area than really necessary. At least, I _hope_
that thickness wasn't entirely necessary. =:O

I find it a bit unnerving to do this sort of thing, until I realize and
accept that it's the only way to get the job done. However, I'm pretty sure
I'm not the only one with an aversion to sanding wing skins up tight flush
with the tip rib and "thinning" fiberglass tip leading edges. :-/
::sigh:: Onward.

Ron
254R

On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 5:18 PM, Ted Waltman <ted@vafm.org> wrote:

If you sand the first ~3/4 of the tip, gaining fit flexibility, you could
simply monitor the tip closely, especially during early test flights, for
fatigue cracks. Then, if you had cracks, you could put thin "veil" (or
maybe 2oz cloth) fiberglass over the suspect area and build it up bit by
bit
until no further problems are seen. Using some lightweight filler you
could
sand the covered area to the same flared shape of the tip and no one would
know the difference.

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Ron,

HI DAVE

So how many and what size do you suppest for the rest of the tip ? Are floating nuts plates okay to use ? Are the slide on floating plates wayne used to sell okay ?

Cheers

mike

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Dave Fife
Sent: October 22, 2009 10:15 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] wing tip gap

Ron,

Thanks, Dave. I also found that after locating the amount of overlap needed
at the leading edge, I was able to mark the edge line on the wing and 'back
measure' to know how wide a strip to sand inside the tip.

The tips are beautiful. For those who haven't seen them yet, see
http://n254mr.com/node/1151

Ron


On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 7:15 AM, Dave Fife <aircrafttips@yahoo.com> wrote:

Ron,

The first mounting screw you should install is the leading edge of tip.
This pushes the tip back. A small gap is possible but here is a tip. Sand
the inside of leading edge of tip. This area has about 5 layers of cloth and
resin. Becarefull, do not sand too much. Do a test fit and get it the best
you can. Now you can apply a small bead of silicone caulk when applying tip.
Silicone makes it tough to paint so best to use paintable type that is used
on home exterior trim. Wipe clean after tip is attached and you should be
done. Oh, if you have to remove tip at a later date, the caulking will make
this more difficult. To make this easier, place 1 layer of packaging tape on
wing, beneath the tip where it overlays. Trim it nice so the tape does not
lay past the tip.
Hope this helps.



David K. Fife
3D Composite Aircraft Parts Inc.
428 N. Linwood Beach Rd
Linwood, MI. 48634
989-697-3277
Long EZ in progress.

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Perhaps adding a STOL fence at the gap similar to craft with a STOL system
added at the aileron / flap area of the wing could cover up the miss-fit and
enhance the appearance...it must belong their!

Dick Wampach SR-108 N331RW



-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Fife
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 7:15 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] wing tip gap


Ron,

Interesting idea, Dick. I would wonder if a STOL fence there might interfere
with intended airflow around the Hoerner tip, although I suppose if it was
small enough it may not matter.

The "problem" in this area is caused by the extra thickness layup for the
"frame" of the landing light cutout. Describing it accurately in words is
difficult because "gap" implies there's an opening all the way into the wing
tip, which is not the case. The gap is just at the inboard edge of the
fiberglass. Further into the wing tip (going outboard) the extra thickness
of fiberglass contacts the wing skin tight -- which is the problem.

Regardless, careful sanding solves the issue. The edge gap on mine is down
to about 1/6" with clecos now -- which isn't really much of a worry as is
-- and will probably pull down snug with screws.

Ron


On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 10:52 AM, Richard Wampach <rwampach@comcast.net>wrote:

Perhaps adding a STOL fence at the gap similar to craft with a STOL system
added at the aileron / flap area of the wing could cover up the miss-fit
and
enhance the appearance...it must belong their!

Dick Wampach SR-108 N331RW

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