The Murphy Builders Site

Hi to everyone,

I used the cutout pattern printed in the manual to set the proper 0 degree
deflection on the flapperons. When the flaps are set to the neutral position
on the pattern the trailing edge of the flap sticks above the top of the
fuselage about one inch. I am assuming the flap have to be flush with the
fuselage to be neutral. Any suggestions?

I also noted, the manual shows no spacing washers between the flapperon horns
and rod-end from the short push-pull tube that controls them, but several are
needed.

My last question. The AN4-16A bolts with the heads cut off and screwed into
the fuselage torque tubes, only penetrate the wing torque tubes less than a
1/4", when the wings are mounted. Are they to short or should they be
lengthened?

Blue skies and tailwinds
Bruce G 357R
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Hi Bruce !

Haven't seen any answers to your questions - but that might
just be <my> email setup !

There are many places to adjust the flapperons, and I have
spent a full day on some Rebels, just fiddling with various rod
lengths, to get settings <I> was happy with !!

The easy one is the Teleflex cable - as long as you end up
with enough vertical travel between the stop plates on the long arm
that holds the aileron bellcrank ... After that, you've got lots
of rod-ends to twirl ! :-)

You're right - several washers are often needed on those
short tubes (also, different versions of the manual have "suggested"
lengths that would not work well) !

1/4" does not sound like enough grip - but Wayne's probably
MUCH more current on this than I ...

.....bobp

--------------------------------orig.---------------------------------------
At 10:41 PM 11/15/00 EST, you wrote:

Hi to everyone,

I used the cutout pattern printed in the manual to set the proper 0 degree
deflection on the flapperons. When the flaps are set to the neutral position
on the pattern the trailing edge of the flap sticks above the top of the
fuselage about one inch. I am assuming the flap have to be flush with the
fuselage to be neutral. Any suggestions?

I also noted, the manual shows no spacing washers between the flapperon horns
and rod-end from the short push-pull tube that controls them, but several are
needed.

My last question. The AN4-16A bolts with the heads cut off and screwed into
the fuselage torque tubes, only penetrate the wing torque tubes less than a
1/4", when the wings are mounted. Are they to short or should they be
lengthened?

Blue skies and tailwinds
Bruce G 357R
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Thanks Bob,

I have flaps and most of those problems solved thanks to Brian and Wayne,
mostly. I still would like to know if there is a recommended tension on the
cables. and finally, yes I had forgotten about those bolts with the cut off
heads that penetrate the wing torque tubes for alignment. Mine are now only
3/16" of overlap. I plan on replacing them when I disassemble, or turn them
out with a vise grip, if possible, without scarring them up (assuming they
were just screwed in to far).

Bruce G 357R
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Good ! I sometimes miss several emails - don't know why !!

I guess the Tech. guys would be best source for tension -
but answers might be delayed ! Brian and Darryl just left for the
Philippines, and I think Brian planned to be there for a MONTH !!

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-----------------------------------
At 10:59 PM 11/26/00 EST, you wrote:

Thanks Bob,

I have flaps and most of those problems solved thanks to Brian and Wayne,
mostly. I still would like to know if there is a recommended tension on the
cables. and finally, yes I had forgotten about those bolts with the cut off
heads that penetrate the wing torque tubes for alignment. Mine are now only
3/16" of overlap. I plan on replacing them when I disassemble, or turn them
out with a vise grip, if possible, without scarring them up (assuming they
were just screwed in to far).

Bruce G 357R
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Your following message has been delivered to the 170 members of
the list murphy-rebel@dcsol.com at 23:13:18 on 26 Nov 2000.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Bruce, the cut off bolt is just there to peg and align the control horns in
place and take all the play out with 3 bolts in total holding the horns
together (including the cut off one). Do not loosen the bolt to get more
penetration as it will then be able to wobble and won't do it's job. Use a
longer bolt if necessary to get it to fully engage through the torque tube
end plug. Bolt length changes from A/C to A/C depending on how the tubes
were done through the cabin and how far the tubes stick out of each wing.

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: <Legeorgen@cs.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 10:59 PM
Subject: Re: flapperon adjustments

Thanks Bob,

I have flaps and most of those problems solved thanks to Brian and Wayne,
mostly. I still would like to know if there is a recommended tension on

the

cables. and finally, yes I had forgotten about those bolts with the cut

off

heads that penetrate the wing torque tubes for alignment. Mine are now

only

3/16" of overlap. I plan on replacing them when I disassemble, or turn

them

out with a vise grip, if possible, without scarring them up (assuming they
were just screwed in to far).

Bruce G 357R

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I think the cut off bolts have to be fairly short.the torque tube has to
change direction [bend up] at this connection because of the dihedral in
the wing. you need a little slop here or the controls will bind.
Drew
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Your following message has been delivered to the 170 members of
the list murphy-rebel@dcsol.com at 13:25:10 on 27 Nov 2000.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


I hate to disagree Drew, but you do not want the torque tube joint to have a
bend in it at the wing root (otherwise you would have to leave the two horn
attachment bolts loose also, to flop around!). Bob P. and myself have both
seen a few Rebels controls systems that did some interesting things, when
the angle change was put at the root area joint (especially if accented by
trying to put the torque tube hanger bracket higher up in the cabin than
necessary). The tubes should be bolted tightly together, so the cabin tubes
become an aligned extension of the wing tube. The cabin torque tube hanger
bracket is then positioned and should only be drilled and bolted when the
wings have been attached and the tubes bolted together properly between the
wing root and the fuselage.That way there will be no binding in the
aileron/flaperon movement, as all tubes will be aligned on each wing and the
only angle change will be that the tube leaves the hanger bracket at 89
degrees (to the bracket). Since the left tube is not joined to the right
wings tube at this point, it won't cause any control system binding.

Best Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew and Jan" <drewjan@execulink.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: flapperon adjustments

I think the cut off bolts have to be fairly short.the torque tube has to
change direction [bend up] at this connection because of the dihedral in
the wing. you need a little slop here or the controls will bind.
Drew
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Your following message has been delivered to the 170 members of
the list murphy-rebel@dcsol.com at 17:27:09 on 27 Nov 2000.
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After reading over that crap I just sent to the list, I will semi-apologize
for disagreeing with you Drew! If both tubes actually stayed at the 1 degree
dihedral, the right wings cabin tube would be lower than the left wings tube
where they meet at the hanger bracket. The right wings cabin tube <must>
bend slightly (about 1/2 to 5/8 of a degree) to meet up with the left one at
the hanger bracket. The tube itself will flex this much, if you bolt the
wing and cabin tubes tightly together at the root area. The locator (cut
off) bolt should still be tight in it's nut plate and should penetrate the
tube plug hole by at least 1/4".

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: flapperon adjustments

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your following message has been delivered to the 170 members of
the list murphy-rebel@dcsol.com at 13:25:10 on 27 Nov 2000.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


I hate to disagree Drew, but you do not want the torque tube joint to have

a

bend in it at the wing root (otherwise you would have to leave the two

horn

attachment bolts loose also, to flop around!). Bob P. and myself have both
seen a few Rebels controls systems that did some interesting things, when
the angle change was put at the root area joint (especially if accented by
trying to put the torque tube hanger bracket higher up in the cabin than
necessary). The tubes should be bolted tightly together, so the cabin

tubes

become an aligned extension of the wing tube. The cabin torque tube hanger
bracket is then positioned and should only be drilled and bolted when the
wings have been attached and the tubes bolted together properly between

the

wing root and the fuselage.That way there will be no binding in the
aileron/flaperon movement, as all tubes will be aligned on each wing and

the

only angle change will be that the tube leaves the hanger bracket at 89
degrees (to the bracket). Since the left tube is not joined to the right
wings tube at this point, it won't cause any control system binding.

Best Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew and Jan" <drewjan@execulink.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: flapperon adjustments

I think the cut off bolts have to be fairly short.the torque tube has to
change direction [bend up] at this connection because of the dihedral in
the wing. you need a little slop here or the controls will bind.
Drew
-----------------------------------------------------
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/

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Hi Bruce

There is a recommended tension on the cables & there is even a small tension
gauge available to check cable tension, though, I confess, I did not use it.
We installed just by look & feel etc. i.e. make sure there is no free play
in the system. I know people have mentioned that this can change under
load. I have never noticed any change in the system during the flight. I
guess I am having too much fun flying!

The elevator controls are so light that I am not sure that cable tension is
all that critical. Also, as you know, the rudder cable tension is set by
the return springs on the pedals so there is nothing to set there. The
induced tension by the rudder return springs can give you an idea about
total tension.

As other have mentioned, just keep the elevator cables as straight as
possible, use pullies at the torque tube end and and bulkhead D. If you do
this, I think your system will be super smooth with no issues.

The only problem I had with the whole thing was with the elevator horn.
Actually, it caused quite a hassle. I spent quite a bit of time making sure
it moved smoothly in the delrin blocks. The trick was that after you
torqued the delrin blocks down, the horn tightened right up indicating that
the block was deforming as it was being tightened. And yes, I used a torque
wrench on the AN3 bolts. Quite a surprise. Just something to watch for.


Regards

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: Legeorgen@cs.com [mailto:Legeorgen@cs.com]
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 10:59 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: flapperon adjustments


Thanks Bob,

I have flaps and most of those problems solved thanks to Brian and Wayne,
mostly. I still would like to know if there is a recommended tension on the
cables. and finally, yes I had forgotten about those bolts with the cut off
heads that penetrate the wing torque tubes for alignment. Mine are now only
3/16" of overlap. I plan on replacing them when I disassemble, or turn them
out with a vise grip, if possible, without scarring them up (assuming they
were just screwed in to far).

Bruce G 357R
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