The Murphy Builders Site

Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:33 pm**

If I were to build another rebel I'd do all the wiring and panel plumbing
before I attached the firewall. I would have saved dozens of hours by being
able to stand up straight and work on the the wiring with good light.
Instead I crawled in and out of the cockpit a hundred times and laid on my
back with the elevator horn digging into my spine. Just cleco it in place
and mount your radios from the front to make sure of clearances then take
it off and have fun.

Hi all,
I brought this up with Charlie cuz I know he's just ahead of me --- well,
maybe a lot ahead of me by now ;) --- but anyway, thought I'd cast a wider
net. I'm wondering how soon to rivet on the firewall. I've got the floor
channels in and the cabin floor all drilled, ready to rivet later, after

plumbing

and wiring. I've riveted in most everything ahead of the cage (Fus-5,

posts,

etc), except for the panel, panel to firewall braces and anything related to
motor mounts. I've done nothing wrt controls yet.

My plan has been to hold off riveting the panel to allow easier instrument
installation. And to hold riveting motor mount stuff tilll I have a motor
mount. That all leaves open the pros/cons of riveting the firewall now.

I'd

like to do it to make rotating the fuselage easier and just to check it

off my

list. How much will I regret this when it comes time to debur or rivet

motor

mount holes, or to do more panel wiring?
Thanks,
-Ben/ 496R

Drew

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:33 pm**

Hi Ben !

I wouldn't hold off on the motor mounts until you have a mount.
The mounts are all supposed to fit the standard position for the
mounting brackets...... If you do them to fit one mount, someone
might have a problem later switching engines.

I agree with Drew - cleco the panel to check, cleco the firewall
for ease of handling .... Remove the firewall for ease of wiring,
installing controls, etc., etc. ..... Leave rivetting the firewall
until the end. Keep your instruments on a floating panel with
shock mounts - protects them, and makes for much easier
installation & maintenance .... even if you are going EFIS !
As Drew says - lying on your back to get at the connections
is no fun !! ;-(

While you are at it --- have you considered installing your firewall
flipped - with the flanges to the rear ?? This will eliminate the
lip at the bottom that impedes air flow, causing higher temps,
and decreasing speed .... It does make installing the cowling just
a bit more challenging, but no biggie ... It also makes you safer -
if there's a fire, the rivets holding the firewall are behind the
firewall ....

If you are worried about C of G issues, you could trim the sides
back the 1/2" or so this would move the firewall forward - OR,
if you are planning a lighter engine, like the Rotax, just leave
it forward.

--
......bobp
bobp@prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com

Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender
and do not necessarily reflect the views of any other entities or persons.
Any action taken as a result of the contents of this email is totally the
responsibility of the reader.

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 15 September 2009 05:34, bransom@dcsol.com wrote:

Hi all,
I brought this up with Charlie cuz I know he's just ahead of me --- well,
maybe a lot ahead of me by now ;) --- but anyway, thought I'd cast a wider
net. I'm wondering how soon to rivet on the firewall. I've got the floor
channels in and the cabin floor all drilled, ready to rivet later, after
plumbing and wiring. I've riveted in most everything ahead of the cage
(Fus-5, posts, etc), except for the panel, panel to firewall braces and
anything related to motor mounts. I've done nothing wrt controls yet.

My plan has been to hold off riveting the panel to allow easier instrument
installation. And to hold riveting motor mount stuff tilll I have a motor
mount. That all leaves open the pros/cons of riveting the firewall now.
I'd like to do it to make rotating the fuselage easier and just to check
it off my list. How much will I regret this when it comes time to debur
or rivet motor mount holes, or to do more panel wiring?
Thanks,
-Ben/ 496R

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:33 pm**

Thanks Drew, Bob,
...guess I'll leave that firewall in clecos. It is already all drilled out with
flange facing forward as per MAM. So, others will benefit from your
suggestion on this one Bob. At least I got the diagonal witches hats on
opposite of MAM, as per Wayne's recommendation.
-Ben

On 9/15/2009 7:08 PM, bobp@prosumers.ca wrote to rebel-builders:

Hi Ben !

I wouldn't hold off on the motor mounts until you have a mount.
The mounts are all supposed to fit the standard position for the
mounting brackets...... If you do them to fit one mount, someone
might have a problem later switching engines.

I agree with Drew - cleco the panel to check, cleco the firewall
for ease of handling .... Remove the firewall for ease of wiring,
installing controls, etc., etc. ..... Leave rivetting the firewall
until the end. Keep your instruments on a floating panel with
shock mounts - protects them, and makes for much easier
installation & maintenance .... even if you are going EFIS !
As Drew says - lying on your back to get at the connections
is no fun !! ;-(

While you are at it --- have you considered installing your firewall
flipped - with the flanges to the rear ?? This will eliminate the
lip at the bottom that impedes air flow, causing higher temps,
and decreasing speed .... It does make installing the cowling just
a bit more challenging, but no biggie ... It also makes you safer -
if there's a fire, the rivets holding the firewall are behind the
firewall ....

If you are worried about C of G issues, you could trim the sides
back the 1/2" or so this would move the firewall forward - OR,
if you are planning a lighter engine, like the Rotax, just leave
it forward.

--
......bobp
bobp@prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com

Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender
and do not necessarily reflect the views of any other entities or persons.
Any action taken as a result of the contents of this email is totally the
responsibility of the reader.

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 15 September 2009 05:34, bransom@dcsol.com wrote:
Hi all,
I brought this up with Charlie cuz I know he's just ahead of me --- well,
maybe a lot ahead of me by now ;) --- but anyway, thought I'd cast a

wider

net. I'm wondering how soon to rivet on the firewall. I've got the floor
channels in and the cabin floor all drilled, ready to rivet later, after
plumbing and wiring. I've riveted in most everything ahead of the cage
(Fus-5, posts, etc), except for the panel, panel to firewall braces and
anything related to motor mounts. I've done nothing wrt controls yet.

My plan has been to hold off riveting the panel to allow easier instrument
installation. And to hold riveting motor mount stuff tilll I have a motor
mount. That all leaves open the pros/cons of riveting the firewall now.
I'd like to do it to make rotating the fuselage easier and just to check
it off my list. How much will I regret this when it comes time to debur
or rivet motor mount holes, or to do more panel wiring?
Thanks,
-Ben/ 496R

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:33 pm**

Well, this is a chuckle! I'm reading Bob's suggestion about flipping the
firewall and glad that I did hear about it in time to do it. Then I read
Ben's comment about the changed witches hat that he's done and which I
haven't heard about; and of course mine are already drilled the MAM way.

So, just for info, what is the deal with swapping the angle directions?
Craig R207

Original Message:
-----------------
From: bransom@dcsol.com
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 21:50:10 -0800
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] When to rivet on the firewall

Thanks Drew, Bob,
...guess I'll leave that firewall in clecos. It is already all drilled
out with
flange facing forward as per MAM. So, others will benefit from your
suggestion on this one Bob. At least I got the diagonal witches hats on
opposite of MAM, as per Wayne's recommendation.
-Ben

On 9/15/2009 7:08 PM, bobp@prosumers.ca wrote to rebel-builders:

Hi Ben !

I wouldn't hold off on the motor mounts until you have a mount.
The mounts are all supposed to fit the standard position for the
mounting brackets...... If you do them to fit one mount, someone
might have a problem later switching engines.

I agree with Drew - cleco the panel to check, cleco the firewall
for ease of handling .... Remove the firewall for ease of wiring,
installing controls, etc., etc. ..... Leave rivetting the firewall
until the end. Keep your instruments on a floating panel with
shock mounts - protects them, and makes for much easier
installation & maintenance .... even if you are going EFIS !
As Drew says - lying on your back to get at the connections
is no fun !! ;-(

While you are at it --- have you considered installing your firewall
flipped - with the flanges to the rear ?? This will eliminate the
lip at the bottom that impedes air flow, causing higher temps,
and decreasing speed .... It does make installing the cowling just
a bit more challenging, but no biggie ... It also makes you safer -
if there's a fire, the rivets holding the firewall are behind the
firewall ....

If you are worried about C of G issues, you could trim the sides
back the 1/2" or so this would move the firewall forward - OR,
if you are planning a lighter engine, like the Rotax, just leave
it forward.

--
......bobp
bobp@prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com

Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender
and do not necessarily reflect the views of any other entities or persons.
Any action taken as a result of the contents of this email is totally the
responsibility of the reader.

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 15 September 2009 05:34, bransom@dcsol.com wrote:
Hi all,
I brought this up with Charlie cuz I know he's just ahead of me ---

well,

maybe a lot ahead of me by now ;) --- but anyway, thought I'd cast a

wider

net. I'm wondering how soon to rivet on the firewall. I've got the

floor

channels in and the cabin floor all drilled, ready to rivet later, after
plumbing and wiring. I've riveted in most everything ahead of the cage
(Fus-5, posts, etc), except for the panel, panel to firewall braces and
anything related to motor mounts. I've done nothing wrt controls yet.

My plan has been to hold off riveting the panel to allow easier

instrument

installation. And to hold riveting motor mount stuff tilll I have a

motor

mount. That all leaves open the pros/cons of riveting the firewall

now.

I'd like to do it to make rotating the fuselage easier and just to check
it off my list. How much will I regret this when it comes time to debur
or rivet motor mount holes, or to do more panel wiring?
Thanks,
-Ben/ 496R

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:33 pm**

Just looked back through the archives and I couldn't find the bit about
reversing the witches hats. IIRC, the issue is interference with some 0320 oil
cooler mounts. Anybody out there, correct me if I'm imagining some or all of
this.
-Ben

On 9/15/2009 10:02 PM, snowyrvr@mtaonline.net wrote to rebel-builders:

Well, this is a chuckle! I'm reading Bob's suggestion about flipping the
firewall and glad that I did hear about it in time to do it. Then I read
Ben's comment about the changed witches hat that he's done and which I
haven't heard about; and of course mine are already drilled the MAM way.

So, just for info, what is the deal with swapping the angle directions?
Craig R207

Original Message:
-----------------
From: bransom@dcsol.com
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 21:50:10 -0800
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] When to rivet on the firewall

Thanks Drew, Bob,
...guess I'll leave that firewall in clecos. It is already all drilled
out with
flange facing forward as per MAM. So, others will benefit from your
suggestion on this one Bob. At least I got the diagonal witches hats on
opposite of MAM, as per Wayne's recommendation.
-Ben

On 9/15/2009 7:08 PM, bobp@prosumers.ca wrote to rebel-builders:

Hi Ben !

I wouldn't hold off on the motor mounts until you have a mount.
The mounts are all supposed to fit the standard position for the
mounting brackets...... If you do them to fit one mount, someone
might have a problem later switching engines.

I agree with Drew - cleco the panel to check, cleco the firewall
for ease of handling .... Remove the firewall for ease of wiring,
installing controls, etc., etc. ..... Leave rivetting the firewall
until the end. Keep your instruments on a floating panel with
shock mounts - protects them, and makes for much easier
installation & maintenance .... even if you are going EFIS !
As Drew says - lying on your back to get at the connections
is no fun !! ;-(

While you are at it --- have you considered installing your firewall
flipped - with the flanges to the rear ?? This will eliminate the
lip at the bottom that impedes air flow, causing higher temps,
and decreasing speed .... It does make installing the cowling just
a bit more challenging, but no biggie ... It also makes you safer -
if there's a fire, the rivets holding the firewall are behind the
firewall ....

If you are worried about C of G issues, you could trim the sides
back the 1/2" or so this would move the firewall forward - OR,
if you are planning a lighter engine, like the Rotax, just leave
it forward.

--
......bobp
bobp@prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.ordermygift.com

Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender
and do not necessarily reflect the views of any other entities or persons.
Any action taken as a result of the contents of this email is totally the
responsibility of the reader.

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 15 September 2009 05:34, bransom@dcsol.com wrote:
Hi all,
I brought this up with Charlie cuz I know he's just ahead of me ---
well,
maybe a lot ahead of me by now ;) --- but anyway, thought I'd cast a
wider
net. I'm wondering how soon to rivet on the firewall. I've got the
floor
channels in and the cabin floor all drilled, ready to rivet later, after
plumbing and wiring. I've riveted in most everything ahead of the cage
(Fus-5, posts, etc), except for the panel, panel to firewall braces and
anything related to motor mounts. I've done nothing wrt controls yet.

My plan has been to hold off riveting the panel to allow easier
instrument
installation. And to hold riveting motor mount stuff tilll I have a
motor
mount. That all leaves open the pros/cons of riveting the firewall
now.
I'd like to do it to make rotating the fuselage easier and just to check
it off my list. How much will I regret this when it comes time to debur
or rivet motor mount holes, or to do more panel wiring?
Thanks,
-Ben/ 496R

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Posted: **Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:33 pm**

Ben

As long as the instrument panel, glareshield, and windshield are not
riveted I found that it was no problem to have the firewall riveted.
Several things will likely fasten to the firewall. You can even mount
the engine before riveting the above items. If possible I would not
drill the engine mount holes to final size yet though as engine mounts
don't always fit perfectly to the dimensions given in the manual and
some filing may be in order. Depending on the jig and the welder, they
can easily vary by more than 1/16". The side to side spacing of the
bottom two holes is where the problem is most likely to occur I think.

Ken

bransom@dcsol.com wrote:

Hi all,
I brought this up with Charlie cuz I know he's just ahead of me --- well,
maybe a lot ahead of me by now ;) --- but anyway, thought I'd cast a wider
net. I'm wondering how soon to rivet on the firewall. I've got the floor
channels in and the cabin floor all drilled, ready to rivet later, after plumbing
and wiring. I've riveted in most everything ahead of the cage (Fus-5, posts,
etc), except for the panel, panel to firewall braces and anything related to
motor mounts. I've done nothing wrt controls yet.

My plan has been to hold off riveting the panel to allow easier instrument
installation. And to hold riveting motor mount stuff tilll I have a motor
mount. That all leaves open the pros/cons of riveting the firewall now. I'd
like to do it to make rotating the fuselage easier and just to check it off my
list. How much will I regret this when it comes time to debur or rivet motor
mount holes, or to do more panel wiring?
Thanks,
-Ben/ 496R

-----------------------------------------------------------------
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