The Murphy Builders Site

There are 3 types of brake fluid to be found in the industry.

Automotive: a vegetable base product, clear in color, it will remove
automotive type paint when you spill it, seams to absorb moisture.
Requires seals compatible to vegetable base fluid.

Aviation: Mineral base product, Mil Spec 5606, red in color, maintains
its viscosity over a wide temperature range. 5606 does not remove
paint. It is the standard in all production airplanes. Fire resistant,
requires seals compatible with mineral based fluids. Most brake parts
come with seals compatible to this fluid

Synthetic: Such as Skydrol (phosphate ester base). It is used mostly in
the Airliners with large capacity systems, very good as a fire resistant
fluid. Very irritating to the eyes nose & throat. It requires seals
compatible to synthetic fluid. It maintains its viscosity over a big
temperature range. If given a choice I would never work with it again!!!
If you one time get it in your eyes you will share my feelings.


I would urge you to use the 5606 mineral based hydraulic fluid for its
proven reliability and compatibility to the industry standard. It is
available from almost all aviation vendors, repair shops and mechanics.
I would not want to run the risk of some one helping you out by
servicing your system with the wrong fluid and causing one big problem.
When fluid types are mixed the fluid can become very thick, seals swell
up and the whole system requires extensive repair, flushing etc.

Dick Wampach SR-108 N331RW

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Ron Shannon
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 4:25 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Brake Lines

I'm about to tackle this soon myself. On other Rebels, I've seen both
aluminum and and steel right angle AN fittings coming out the cabin
floor.
In the past, I've found a wide assortment of less common fittings in
both
materials at Summit Racing (http://summitracing.com) and Pegasus Racing
(
http://www.pegasusautoracing.com).

It's my understanding traditional brake fluid is corrosive to aluminum.
Of
course, a trip to the archives reveals the consensus recommended fluid
for
Rebel brakes seems to be Dextron automatic transmission fluid. Whether
that's corrosive to aluminum or not I don't know. If it isn't, I'll use
aluminum fittings.

Hope that helps. No doubt, others more knowledgeable than I will
contribute
answers too.

Ron



On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 4:06 PM, David L. Tuck <dltuck53@hotmail.com>
wrote:

I'm in the process of fitting the brake lines from the master

cylinders to

the gear legs, In what way are you exitting the cabin area? I would

like to

use a 90 degree fitting the flex tubing on down the gear leg.

Can't seem to come up with a 90 bulkhead fitting to use with the brass
nylaflow plastic lines.

Does anyone have any input for this?

Thanks

Dave T

rebel 009

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Yes.
The common DOT 3 alcohol based automotive fluids will indeed destroy our
aviation brake rubber components. Usually when away from home with a
crosswind as one of our members will testify ;( Oddly I've never seen
it destroy paint even though I've always been told that it will. I flush
the stuff out of cars every couple of years because it does absorb
enough moisture to cause corrosion problems. When clean and dry it does
not harm aluminum brake components such as those expensive antiskid
valve bodies.

I've never heard of a problem using the pink automotive automatic
transmission fluid in homebuilt airplanes. It is also recommended for
amphib hydraulic systems and is much harder to ignite compared to the
alcohol fluids.

Ken

Richard Wampach wrote:

There are 3 types of brake fluid to be found in the industry.

Automotive: a vegetable base product, clear in color, it will remove
automotive type paint when you spill it, seams to absorb moisture.
Requires seals compatible to vegetable base fluid.

Aviation: Mineral base product, Mil Spec 5606, red in color, maintains
its viscosity over a wide temperature range. 5606 does not remove
paint. It is the standard in all production airplanes. Fire resistant,
requires seals compatible with mineral based fluids. Most brake parts
come with seals compatible to this fluid

Synthetic: Such as Skydrol (phosphate ester base). It is used mostly in
the Airliners with large capacity systems, very good as a fire resistant
fluid. Very irritating to the eyes nose & throat. It requires seals
compatible to synthetic fluid. It maintains its viscosity over a big
temperature range. If given a choice I would never work with it again!!!
If you one time get it in your eyes you will share my feelings.


I would urge you to use the 5606 mineral based hydraulic fluid for its
proven reliability and compatibility to the industry standard. It is
available from almost all aviation vendors, repair shops and mechanics.
I would not want to run the risk of some one helping you out by
servicing your system with the wrong fluid and causing one big problem.
When fluid types are mixed the fluid can become very thick, seals swell
up and the whole system requires extensive repair, flushing etc.

Dick Wampach SR-108 N331RW

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Ron Shannon
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 4:25 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Brake Lines

I'm about to tackle this soon myself. On other Rebels, I've seen both
aluminum and and steel right angle AN fittings coming out the cabin
floor.
In the past, I've found a wide assortment of less common fittings in
both
materials at Summit Racing (http://summitracing.com) and Pegasus Racing
(
http://www.pegasusautoracing.com).

It's my understanding traditional brake fluid is corrosive to aluminum.
Of
course, a trip to the archives reveals the consensus recommended fluid
for
Rebel brakes seems to be Dextron automatic transmission fluid. Whether
that's corrosive to aluminum or not I don't know. If it isn't, I'll use
aluminum fittings.

Hope that helps. No doubt, others more knowledgeable than I will
contribute
answers too.

Ron

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So, to synthesize (I think) points by Dick and Ken (thanks both):


1) Aviation MIL SPEC 5606 brake fluid is fine for Rebel brake seals &
aluminum fittings.

2) If so, I would have to assume the strongly worded proscription against
"brake fluid" in the manual was intended to refer only to DOT 3-type
automotive brake fluid.

3) Automatic transmission fluid (Dextron II, etc.) as specified in the Rebel
manual is also fine.


On track? The right track? :-)

Ron




On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 7:36 PM, Ken <klehman@albedo.net> wrote:

Yes.
The common DOT 3 alcohol based automotive fluids will indeed destroy our
aviation brake rubber components. Usually when away from home with a
crosswind as one of our members will testify ;( Oddly I've never seen
it destroy paint even though I've always been told that it will. I flush
the stuff out of cars every couple of years because it does absorb
enough moisture to cause corrosion problems. When clean and dry it does
not harm aluminum brake components such as those expensive antiskid
valve bodies.

I've never heard of a problem using the pink automotive automatic
transmission fluid in homebuilt airplanes. It is also recommended for
amphib hydraulic systems and is much harder to ignite compared to the
alcohol fluids.

Ken

Richard Wampach wrote:

There are 3 types of brake fluid to be found in the industry.

Automotive: a vegetable base product, clear in color, it will remove
automotive type paint when you spill it, seams to absorb moisture.
Requires seals compatible to vegetable base fluid.

Aviation: Mineral base product, Mil Spec 5606, red in color, maintains
its viscosity over a wide temperature range. 5606 does not remove
paint. It is the standard in all production airplanes. Fire resistant,
requires seals compatible with mineral based fluids. Most brake parts
come with seals compatible to this fluid

Synthetic: Such as Skydrol (phosphate ester base). It is used mostly in
the Airliners with large capacity systems, very good as a fire resistant
fluid. Very irritating to the eyes nose & throat. It requires seals
compatible to synthetic fluid. It maintains its viscosity over a big
temperature range. If given a choice I would never work with it again!!!
If you one time get it in your eyes you will share my feelings.


I would urge you to use the 5606 mineral based hydraulic fluid for its
proven reliability and compatibility to the industry standard. It is
available from almost all aviation vendors, repair shops and mechanics.
I would not want to run the risk of some one helping you out by
servicing your system with the wrong fluid and causing one big problem.
When fluid types are mixed the fluid can become very thick, seals swell
up and the whole system requires extensive repair, flushing etc.

Dick Wampach SR-108 N331RW

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I would agree with all that except for "only" in point 2)
There are yet other brake fluids around such as silicones (DOT 4 I think
?). I don't know if that is compatible so would it as well. Could be
that it is OK and that is why there is some confusion about automotive
brake fluids but I just don't know.
Ken

Ron Shannon wrote:

So, to synthesize (I think) points by Dick and Ken (thanks both):


1) Aviation MIL SPEC 5606 brake fluid is fine for Rebel brake seals &
aluminum fittings.

2) If so, I would have to assume the strongly worded proscription against
"brake fluid" in the manual was intended to refer only to DOT 3-type
automotive brake fluid.

3) Automatic transmission fluid (Dextron II, etc.) as specified in the Rebel
manual is also fine.


On track? The right track? :-)

Ron

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