The Murphy Builders Site

Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:27 pm**

Hi all

Was wondering if anyone had considered adding another channel on cabin
flloor and moving controls back along with instrument panel and rudder
controls. this would move pilot seat back as well.

although it would not be as good as moving firewall as murphy wants it would
still shft some weight back.

Any comments ???

Mike#007

EOM

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:27 pm**

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Your following message has been delivered to the 163 members of
the list murphy-rebel@dcsol.com at 13:11:12 on 1 Nov 2000.
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Great idea in theory Mike, as it is the flying C of G that matters and not
the empty C of G! One other thing to consider along these lines, is that
most of MAM's data shows the fuel tanks C of G for weight and balance at 18
inches aft, when in fact the center of the tanks are actually at 24 inches
aft of datum. Makes a big difference on your flight configuration C of G
calculations!

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jones, Mike" <MJones@HATCH.CA>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 10:56 AM
Subject: MOVING FIREWALL ??

Hi all

Was wondering if anyone had considered adding another channel on cabin
flloor and moving controls back along with instrument panel and rudder
controls. this would move pilot seat back as well.

although it would not be as good as moving firewall as murphy wants it

would

still shft some weight back.

Any comments ???

Mike#007

EOM

NOTICE - This message is the property of HATCH. It may also be

confidential

and/or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient of this message
you are hereby notified that you must not disseminate, copy or take any
action with respect to it. If you have received this message in error
please notify HATCH immediately via mailto:MailAdmin@hatch.ca.

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:27 pm**

Hi Mike !

The rudder pedals in our latest Rebel were moved back about
2 inches (short legs ??). This has the effect you describe - and this
produces the thing I dislike most about moving the firewall back !
You can't see out NEARLY as well, and the different seating position
changes the whole feel of the aircraft !!!

Fortunately, the 2" change can be corrected by moving the seat
forward, and flying with bent legs. Not ideal, especially when they
were silly enough to put the headset jacks on the bottom outsides of
the panel, instead of overhead, behind the pilots ! The jacks hit your
knees, and you can't get them out of the way of the stick ...

Every 'little' change can have many ripple effects on other areas !!

Probably easier just to always have 50 lb. of luggage with you -
certainly not hard for <US> !!! ;-) :-)

.....bobp

---------------------------orig.------------------------------------------
At 10:56 AM 11/1/00 -0500, you wrote:

Hi all

Was wondering if anyone had considered adding another channel on cabin
flloor and moving controls back along with instrument panel and rudder
controls. this would move pilot seat back as well.

although it would not be as good as moving firewall as murphy wants it would
still shft some weight back.

Any comments ???

Mike#007

EOM

NOTICE - This message is the property of HATCH. It may also be confidential
and/or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient of this message
you are hereby notified that you must not disseminate, copy or take any
action with respect to it. If you have received this message in error
please notify HATCH immediately via mailto:MailAdmin@hatch.ca.

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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:33 pm**

Hey Mike,
Well, I did move the controls back to give more room between the torque
tube and the back of My partners legs. It just seemed that it would be
uncomfortable to ride a long way having to keep hitting the tube. We also
installed the co-pilots end of the support bearing bracket with rivet-nuts
allowing for the easy removal and ability to swing the torque tube out of the
way for under the panel fixes. I'm already glad I did that!
So what we did was to keep the front of the support bracket on the carry
throughs and added a chanel for the rear of the bracket. We then also had to
add a support for the bellcrank bracket. It turned out fine, but it was alot
of extra work.
In the long run, Wayne is slowwly converting me to the "don't move the
firewall" thinking if you do all the protective mesures, but I'm very happy
with the way ours turned out, and I'm going to do the fixes anyway.
The c-0-g thing still has me wondering though, as we are 11.5 aft of datum
with a concorde battery all the way at the end of the floor along with a 3lb
welan stobe unit and elt just behing the windows. I am three inches back with
the firewall, running a light weight starter and altenator, but do have a 76"
metal prop. Comparing with other numbers and setups, I'm surprised we are not
further aft in the c of g. Along with that, this position only came after the
paint that added 26lbs to the entire aircraft 9lbs going on the tailwheel. I
have been mulling this over for quite some time, and I can only seem to
conclude that perhaps I'm tail high when I weigh the aircraft. If the next
time someone weighs one that they would give me the angle of incidence on the
wing, I would like to compare mine to that, instead of going by the
sidepanel. Thanks, CurtN97MR
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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:33 pm**

Curt,

You say you have an 11.5 C of G. What engine? How much was the empty weight?
How much did your metal prop weigh? You used the speed cowl, did you have to
use a 2" spacer on the prop? 11.5 C of G doesn't sound bad to me, remember
it's not the empty C of G but your loading C of G, and every thing you put in
the plane is aft.
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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:33 pm**

And a P.S. to all of that. The suggested optimum EMPTY c-g is 12". I just
wonder why I am not closer without having to push my battery way in the back.
Curt
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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:33 pm**

Well, It's an 0-320a2b with the 2" spacer and a metal prop. Empty weight is
now 968. It's also the only ifr certified Rebel I know of. So it has xpndr,
encoder, pitot heat, alternate air, o.a.t. Nav lights, Clock Terra glideslope
and localizer, GPS com. All that stuff I'm wondering why I put it in the
airplane! (other than the GPS) After getting to ride in a J-3 with nothing
for equipment but floats, I think I may have overdone!
Most of that is 2" forward of the datum line,in the panel, but I still
thought that the battery final placement would have been closer to the front,
not in the very aft of the aircraft. Oh well, these thing s keep you thinking
anyway. Curt N97MR
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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:33 pm**

Cheer up, Curt !!

I have a very similar setup, empty weight is 966, and empty
CofG is about 8.1" - it flies GREAT !!!

Battery is just aft of the baggage area curtain.

......bobp

----------------------------------orig.--------------------------------
At 03:53 PM 11/6/00 EST, you wrote:

And a P.S. to all of that. The suggested optimum EMPTY c-g is 12". I just
wonder why I am not closer without having to push my battery way in the back.
Curt
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Posted: **Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:33 pm**

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Your following message has been delivered to the 161 members of
the list murphy-rebel@dcsol.com at 18:02:24 on 6 Nov 2000.
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AND BOB KNOW'S ENOUGH TO STAY OFF THE MAM BRAKES!!!!!!!!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 4:23 PM
Subject: Re: MOVING FIREWALL ??

Cheer up, Curt !!

I have a very similar setup, empty weight is 966, and empty
CofG is about 8.1" - it flies GREAT !!!

Battery is just aft of the baggage area curtain.

......bobp

----------------------------------orig.--------------------------------
At 03:53 PM 11/6/00 EST, you wrote:
And a P.S. to all of that. The suggested optimum EMPTY c-g is 12". I just
wonder why I am not closer without having to push my battery way in the

back.

Curt
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