The Murphy Builders Site

I built my Elite with stock trim system and don't see any of this. Trim is
very sensitive. I just use it to adjust for cockpit weight and then pull
the
breaker so I don't bump it on the control stick. Don't need to adjust it
more than the initial time.
Mike Betti

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Andrews
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 8:36 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] Elite Elevator trim travel Control Deflections

I do not have the numbers of deflection handy. But during (my) recent
flight testing on 612e, I was not satisfied with the elevator trim system.
Trim inputs did not fly (move) the control stick after small trim
adjustments. Then when sufficient trim tab deflection was sufficient to
overcome the static friction, the elevator would make a large course
correction as it flew to (and usually over shot to) a new position. I
found
this very unsettling. This may well be due to excessive friction in the
pitch control system (pulleys, etc.). in combination with a too small trim
tab. Although it could be minimized by manually breaking the static
friction while trimming by moving the control stick in small circles and
finding the "new" neutral position while doing so ... control stick
circles
was not my "fix" of choice. I did what I could to reduce the trim
friction,
and yes it did help some, although not enough for my liking. Recalling a
prior conversation with Keith Kinden who said he thought the trim tab was
too small on the Elite, I tried increasing the size of the trim tab, and
that did the trick for me. I will upload a picture of it as soon as I
can.
I have enjoyed several hours of flying now with this larger trim tab and
am
happy to say my trim switch inputs to control stick movement is coupled
quite nicely now.

Cheers, Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Richard Wampach
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:18 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Moose: Elevator trim travel Control
Deflections

I have also been following the discussions about the R C Allen trim
servo.
Also the discussions on travel of some surfaces. I do not have any
worries about the fork and rod with tube installed, in-fact I have added
the same system to a rudder trim system. The servo has travel limit
switches built in. They could be limited to less than the 1.2" travel.

Chapter 12 Controls revision dated 3/3/2006--Moose Control Deflections
covers this info for a SR-3000, & SR-3500, differences are in the air
speed markings. The Rebel and Elite are probably different.

Here are the SR- Control Deflections in Degrees of travel:

Flaps 1st Notch-13*
2nd Notch-26*
3rd Notch-39*

Ailerons Min Up-12*
Min Dn-12*

Elevator UP 25* to 28*
Dn 12* to 15*

Elevator Trim Nose Up 14* I take this to mean airplane nose up-Tab
down
Nose Dn 4*

Rudder is not listed but---limit Max travel so it will not contact the
elevator in any position.

AIRSPEED INDICATOR MARKINGS:

Flap speed-(flap operating range) White Arc 46 to 85 MPH

Normal operating range- Green Arc 52 to 150 MPH

Caution- Yellow Arc 150 to
177 MPH (SR-3000)
150 to
189 MPH (SR-3500)

Never Exceed- RED LINE- 177 MPH
(SR-3000)
189 MPH
(SR-3500)


Here is a recap for those of you whom may be a bit foggy on the meaning
of the colors;
The 46 MPH is the Stall speed with full flaps.
The 52 MPH is the stall speed with no flaps.
The yellow Arc Operations must be conducted with caution and only in
smooth air.
RED LINE-DO NOT EXCEED---THIS MEANS THAT YOU WILL BE COME A TEST PILOT
AND COULD VERY LIKELY BEAR WITNESS TO AN UNSCHEDULED SHEDDING OF PARTS
AND ALSO THE FIRST WITNESS AT THE SCENE OH THE ACCIDENT!!!

I hope this helps answer a few of the questions.


Dick Wampach SR-108 N331RW



-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Ted Waltman

Max up trim: 1 3/4" (in other words that the max the trim tab extends
above
the elevator)
Max dn trim: 1 3/8"

Aileron up travel: 4"
Aileron dn travel" 5 1/2"

Ted Waltman

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Ted
Waltman

Servo motor determines max up/down. I don't think I have any
interference
issue with the slot/servo actuator arm but I'll find out this a.m. and
let
you know. Someone also wanted to know measurements for aileron up/dn
distances so I'll measure that too (If I remember...old age you know).

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Fred
Messinger (fredm)
That would be most excellent if you could, Ted. Thanks. No rush on
it.

Are your up and down maxes determined by the motor maxes itself or to
you
have stop switches?

Thanks again,
Fred

On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 9:14 AM, Ted Waltman <ted@vafm.org> wrote:
Fred,
I don't recall seeing any factory recommendation on trim tab travel. In
flight, a little bit of change has a big effect. I could measure my max
up
and down travel if you want me to.... As I recall, I simply positioned
the
servo in its neutral position then sized the actuator arm such that the
tab
was aligned with the elevator at that position. Haven't found any
situation
yet where I think I've run out of trim.
Ted
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Fred
Messinger (fredm)
Ray Allen Servo
Thanks for all there great feedback on this topic, guys. I mounted the
servo/tube last night.
I measured the maximum down (relative to the elevator) angle that the
trim
would travel without the tube installed. It was only 13 degrees. And
the
reason for that is the acute angle at the piano hinge between the wide
face
of the trim and the face of the spar begin to bind on one end. I
checked
whether or not the trailing edge of the trim is flush with the trailing
edge
of the elevator and they are off by about 3/32.
How do I find out what the factory recommends?
I did search the web site and archive for this and did not fine anything
related to Mooses.
Thanks again!
Fred
On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 8:49 AM, Ted Waltman <tedwaltman@gmail.com>
wrote:
Mounting method is what the manual says <grin>. Nope, the tube is there
to
stiffen the threaded rod, which bends all by itself under load. I know,
I
had one bend pretty bad before I put on the tube. Now, with the tube,
never
have a problem. Oh, by the way, I never put proseal in there--just slid
the
tube on. Maybe water will corrode the rod someday, but that's another
problem...

Ted

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of snowyrvr@mtaonline.net
Man, Ted, that mounting method really sounds hoaky. (yes, that's a
word)
I'm guessing the tube's purpose is to prevent exterior bumps from
bending
the little rod? Doesn't seem like it'd do much as a stiffener applied
like
that. If I remember, this same El-0032 is in the rebel parts as well; I
just haven't seen a reference to it in the manual...yet. CW

Original Message:
From: Ted Waltman tedwaltman@gmail.com

Part # is "Crush Tube" listed as EL--0032 in the manual. I thought it
was
per a service bulletin, but none is shown on the website. The issue is
that
the trim tab actuator arm is simply a 1/4-28 threaded rod. That rod
will
bend under moderate force. Hence, once one has the rod cut to proper
length
and tested for successful full up/down trim travel, one is to spread
proseal
on the threaded rod then slide the crush tube over it. The crush tube,
therefore, is simply an aluminum sleeve (pipe, per se).
Hope this helps and makes sense,
Ted
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Hans Kuck
TED, could you please mail me a copy of the service bulletin regarding
the
Ray Allen Servo. I was not aware that there was such a S.B. to
hansk3d@gmail.com
cheers Hans
tedwaltman@gmail.com> wrote:
Fred, AFAIK, every Moose owner uses this combination servo/actuator arm.
Put the
sleeve on as per the service bulletin (get a sleeve at your local
hardware
store if you don't have one already).
Ted
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Fred
Messinger (fredm)

I'm currently installing the elevator trim tab servo motor on my moose
quick
build.. The one MAM shipped is manufactured by The Ray Allen Company.
Everything (motor casing, clevis forks) is made out of a hard plastic
material. The push rod itself is a threaded metal rod, though.
My questions: Is anyone else using this set up? If not, which
system are you using? I confess, I'm a little concerned about those
flimsy little clevis forks and the plastic drive pin....especially in
cold weather.
Fred
Hans Kuck
P.O.Box 2212
Sechelt B.C.
V0N 3A0
Canada





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