PROSEAL

LisaFly99 · Post by **LisaFly99** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:49 am

In a message dated 12/7/2004 10:02:52 PM Central Standard Time,
jcole@rangroup.com writes:

The problem is that the ProSeal that I received is now out of date as
of. 08/03. It's never been opened.
Do I just through it out or can I use it? I'm inclined not to risk it
but I thought I would ask just in case.

JIM
how has it been stored? If refrigerated it should be fine. Mix up a small
batch and see how it does.
PDSmith

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Al Paxhia · Post by **Al Paxhia** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:49 am

Hi Jim,
Your correct there is a risk. I have used out of date proseal and have not
had a problem. I have noticed the really old stuff is rubbery in the can and
not paste like. If it has started to cure I would throw it out.
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Cole" <jcole@rangroup.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 8:01 PM
Subject: Re: ProSeal

It looks like I might have to pay the price for taking almost a year off
of building!
I'm about to solid rivet the main spar and I need to proseal in the tank
area.
The problem is that the ProSeal that I received is now out of date as
of. 08/03. It's never been opened.
Do I just through it out or can I use it? I'm inclined not to risk it
but I thought I would ask just in case.

Thanks
Jim
SR083Moose

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N223RV · Post by **N223RV** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:49 am

I would not throw it out, but I would not use it for tanks. I'd buy some
new for the tanks, but the old stuff will still harden and is good for using as
an adhesive both at home and on the plane. You can use it to seal the
firewall against CO2, proseal in the wing wiring conduits, etc. It will come in
handy.

-Mike Kraus
N223RV RV-4 Flying
N213RV RV-10 Tailcone Complete, working on wings

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:49 am

Stored in the fridge Jim ?? If so USE IT! If not save it for patching
floats/holes in the hanger walls etc.

I've got cans from as far back as 1996/7 that I still use and they harden up
just fine. If once you've got it warmed back up to room temperature the big
can stirs easily mix it completely and then the small container of black
activator if it's is smooth stirring and still a little shiny looking it's
still good...so stir it up competely and then carefully mix them 10 to 1 by
weight!

You've got nothing to lose trying it out on the spar doublers & I'm sure
it's good for everything else (if you had it in the fridge). You'll know in
a day or so if it tacks up nicely and this will tell you if you can continue
using it for the ribs etc in the tank area!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Cole" <jcole@rangroup.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 11:01 PM
Subject: Re: ProSeal

It looks like I might have to pay the price for taking almost a year off
of building!
I'm about to solid rivet the main spar and I need to proseal in the tank
area.
The problem is that the ProSeal that I received is now out of date as
of. 08/03. It's never been opened.
Do I just through it out or can I use it? I'm inclined not to risk it
but I thought I would ask just in case.

Thanks
Jim
SR083Moose

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Ken · Post by **Ken** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:49 am

Hi Jim

As usual it is difficult to add anything meaningful to Wayne's comments
;) however it might help you decide to know that someone convinced us
(should be in archives) that old stock proseal is often returned to the
factory and retested. Supposedly it is relabelled and put back on the
shelf if it passes.

I seemed to have less than normal adhesion with one batch of 7 year out
of date stuff but I think it was because at the time I forgot to stir
the black hardener before mixing. I am convinced that the stuff has a
very very long shelf life if stored in a deep freeze. Warm it up before
opening so it does not condense moisture. In my 55 to 60 degree basement
it seems to take a couple of days to harden up fully.

Ken

Jim Cole wrote:

It looks like I might have to pay the price for taking almost a year off
of building!
I'm about to solid rivet the main spar and I need to proseal in the tank
area.
The problem is that the ProSeal that I received is now out of date as
of. 08/03. It's never been opened.
Do I just through it out or can I use it? I'm inclined not to risk it
but I thought I would ask just in case.

Thanks
Jim
SR083Moose

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Jim Cole · Post by **Jim Cole** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:49 am

Thanks for the comments - Unfortunately the proseal was stored under the
sink in the office. Not super warm but not in the refridgerator. At
least now I know what to look for.
Wayne where is the best place around here to get a new quart (Leaven is
around $65 a pint) - we will be riveting on Saturday.
Thanks
Jim
SR083Moose

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

Stored in the fridge Jim ?? If so USE IT! If not save it for patching
floats/holes in the hanger walls etc.

I've got cans from as far back as 1996/7 that I still use and they harden up
just fine. If once you've got it warmed back up to room temperature the big
can stirs easily mix it completely and then the small container of black
activator if it's is smooth stirring and still a little shiny looking it's
still good...so stir it up competely and then carefully mix them 10 to 1 by
weight!

You've got nothing to lose trying it out on the spar doublers & I'm sure
it's good for everything else (if you had it in the fridge). You'll know in
a day or so if it tacks up nicely and this will tell you if you can continue
using it for the ribs etc in the tank area!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Cole" <jcole@rangroup.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 11:01 PM
Subject: Re: ProSeal

It looks like I might have to pay the price for taking almost a year off
of building!
I'm about to solid rivet the main spar and I need to proseal in the tank
area.
The problem is that the ProSeal that I received is now out of date as
of. 08/03. It's never been opened.
Do I just through it out or can I use it? I'm inclined not to risk it
but I thought I would ask just in case.

Thanks
Jim
SR083Moose

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:49 am

Jim...looking at your use before date again....I'd be very tempted to pop
those lids and give it a stir. If it's still easy to stir (ie a tad thicker
than caramel pudding/kinda like skippy peanut butter) and the black catalyst
is still smooth and slippy/shiny I'm sure it's still good. Give it a whirl
on the spar doublers so you don't slow down that (oh so needed) work
schedule! If by chance it doesn't harden up right then you are not putting
anything together that can't be scrubbed along the edges, over the rivet
heads (be sure to put them in mfg head to tank side in tank area) and webbed
with proseal. I'm pretty sure that when I did Rob Helt's wings the cans he
brought me hadn't been in the fridge and they were over a year out of date.
I am still using these same '97 cans for stuff after fridge storage for the
last few years (since I only used 2 out of the 4 cans to build his SR wing
tanks!!).

If you want to get new stuff MAM can still ship you the B2 (don't know if
after shipping any cheaper than going to Leavens in the car...but quite
possibly)...but can't ship the higher flow A2 or the CS3600 sloshing
compound (not that you want any of that in you tanks!) as it is classified
as dangerous goods...while for some reason the B2 isn't. If you order from
Aviall they can ship it to you though and I understand from Dave Ricker and
Brent Galye they have very competitive pricing.

Give Brent Galye, or the shipping department, a call at MAM and get a price
on the B2...but doubt you'd have it for Saturday. Try your cans or get down
to Leavens!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----

From: "Jim Cole" <jcole@rangroup.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 9:02 AM
Subject: Re: ProSeal

Thanks for the comments - Unfortunately the proseal was stored under the
sink in the office. Not super warm but not in the refridgerator. At
least now I know what to look for.
Wayne where is the best place around here to get a new quart (Leaven is
around $65 a pint) - we will be riveting on Saturday.
Thanks
Jim
SR083Moose

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

Stored in the fridge Jim ?? If so USE IT! If not save it for patching
floats/holes in the hanger walls etc.

I've got cans from as far back as 1996/7 that I still use and they harden

up

just fine. If once you've got it warmed back up to room temperature the

big

can stirs easily mix it completely and then the small container of black
activator if it's is smooth stirring and still a little shiny looking

it's

still good...so stir it up competely and then carefully mix them 10 to 1

by

weight!

You've got nothing to lose trying it out on the spar doublers & I'm sure
it's good for everything else (if you had it in the fridge). You'll know

in

a day or so if it tacks up nicely and this will tell you if you can

continue

using it for the ribs etc in the tank area!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Cole" <jcole@rangroup.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 11:01 PM
Subject: Re: ProSeal

It looks like I might have to pay the price for taking almost a year off
of building!
I'm about to solid rivet the main spar and I need to proseal in the tank
area.
The problem is that the ProSeal that I received is now out of date as
of. 08/03. It's never been opened.
Do I just through it out or can I use it? I'm inclined not to risk it
but I thought I would ask just in case.

Thanks
Jim
SR083Moose

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mbetti · Post by **mbetti** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:28 am

Hi all,
Been involved in the wings so not many questions lately, I guess I asked them all earlier, just a lot to accomplish now. Any way, with all those seal plates that are fabricated to seal up the wet tank. I try to make them as tight as possible but a question arrises. How big of a hole can the B proseal plug? Also, what is the procedure for access to reseal a tank years from now when the proseal gives up?
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771 Elite

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:28 am

Hopefully the proseal never gives up in your life time...don't worry about
it. As for the filler plates around stringers and corners etc...dont' make
them so tight that the proseal can't squeeze in between the stringer and the
filler plate so you can pack it thru and fillet both sides nicely. You can
fill a pretty large hole with Proseal...but don't get carried away!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 12:24 PM
Subject: Proseal

Hi all,
Been involved in the wings so not many questions lately, I guess I asked

them all earlier, just a lot to accomplish now. Any way, with all those seal
plates that are fabricated to seal up the wet tank. I try to make them as
tight as possible but a question arrises. How big of a hole can the B
proseal plug? Also, what is the procedure for access to reseal a tank years
from now when the proseal gives up?

Thanks,
Mike Betti
771 Elite

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Ken · Post by **Ken** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:28 am

Hi Mike

If you squeeze caulking into a very narrow opening or crack, the
caulking quickly fails when that opening flexes as there is not enough
caulk to stretch. A good caulk can stretch about 50%. So 2/32" of caulk
can only stretch an additional 1/32". But 6/32" of caulk can stretch
3/32". Three times the movement.

Similarly it would seem to me that anywhere the tank is subject to
movement, it is just fine to have a somewhat loose fit of the seal
plates. A 1/32 or 1/16" gap might actually be better than a tight fit.
Between temperature changes and flight stresses I consider all those
seal plates subject to movement and flexing.

Ken

(You'll have to look in the archives for your last question as I expect
my proseal to outlast my lifetime ;) )

mbetti@up.net wrote:

Hi all,
Been involved in the wings so not many questions lately, I guess I asked them all earlier, just a lot to accomplish now. Any way, with all those seal plates that are fabricated to seal up the wet tank. I try to make them as tight as possible but a question arrises. How big of a hole can the B proseal plug? Also, what is the procedure for access to reseal a tank years from now when the proseal gives up?
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771 Elite

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Jean Poirier · Post by **Jean Poirier** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:29 pm

I am finishing second wing. Both will be inspected and then I will close them....

I have read in the past that some of you have "wax" the original thin skin, put it in proseal with cleco, wait, remove, add more proseal and riveted the thick skin..... Some have talk about saran wrap?!?

What is the wax you have use? Contamination problem? How long have you wait before remove the thin skin? Is wax paper ok? Is saran wrap ok (the proseal won't stick on saran wrap?)

Step by step procedure are easier for a $%/"*()/& like me!

Jean
Rebel 747R

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Bob Patterson · Post by **Bob Patterson** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:29 pm

Hi Jean !

I would be worried about contamination with a wax ! Several
builders have used Saran wrap with no problems .... it wraps around
the tank top skin to prevent sticking. (Guess you could use the
piece of thin skin that was cut out ...)

I think the idea is to fillet the sides, cover the tank top with
Saran Wrap, then cleco it on, and invert the wing - leave for a few days.
This should give a nice fillet that you can trim with a knife if needed.
The idea is to provide more surface for sealing when the top goes on.

Think you need to scuff up the ProSeal before adding to it, and/or
wipe it with the ProSeal adhesion enhancer fluid .... otherwise, the
fresh stuff might not stick. :-(

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 06 December 2005 01:43 pm, Jean Poirier wrote:

I am finishing second wing. Both will be inspected and then I will close

them....

I have read in the past that some of you have "wax" the original thin

skin, put it in proseal with cleco, wait, remove, add more proseal and
riveted the thick skin..... Some have talk about saran wrap?!?

What is the wax you have use? Contamination problem? How long have you

wait before remove the thin skin? Is wax paper ok? Is saran wrap ok
(the proseal won't stick on saran wrap?)

Step by step procedure are easier for a $%/"*()/& like me!

Jean
Rebel 747R

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eric.r · Post by **eric.r** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:39 am

O.K., I need some info from a guru. I am working on finding a small leak in a
pro-sealed tank ... pro sealed many many years ago (20). The exterior of the
tank at the inside rib had a lot of "gooey" pro seal under the primer, and
obviously fuel residue ... a very small leak for a while.
What makes the proseal revert to an uncured condition? Seems impossible to
me! The inside of the tank shows NO Signs of a break or softening of the pro
seal! I'm confused, and I think this repair is great practice before I work on
the Real Airplane (790R) tanks!!
I have removerd the affected proseal on the exterior rib, and I am going to
start probing with a sharp object on the interior proseal ... Next I'll scuff and
start putting on new ... Any ideas

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Andrew Burr · Post by **Andrew Burr** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:31 pm

Has any one ever thinned ProSeal with MEK to make it easier to brush on. I have been told this is standard practice.

Andrew E Burr XIV

Vertical performance LLc

Po Box 213

Cassville MO 65625

VPHelo, LLc has paid for the design and engineering for every component and holds ownership of all intellectual property for each component.

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Ted Waltman · Post by **Ted Waltman** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:55 pm

I just ordered some more proseal from Kathy at SealPak
(http://sealpakcoinc.com/about-us/). I had a couple of issues with a can of
proseal that I had ordered two years ago. Kathy offered to send me a whole
quart of new proseal at no charge! What GREAT customer service!

If you have any proseal needs, please consider ordering from SealPak in
Kansas!

Ted

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