[rebel-builders] 1800 amphibs

[Wayne G. O'Shea]

The "one piece 15'9" long thru me off on the count ! LOL

So they gave you an extra one.. how nice.. still not gonna get you out of
the jam! They are to be one piece end to end and as I said those 14' 2" r's
are for 1500 floats. Guess you'd better get after Stephane for a set of 4
the proper length.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rebecca Brownell" <brownell@cottagecountry.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 1800 amphibs

Hi Wayne I have 5 14'pieces.What the he.. do I do now?
On 19-Nov-09, at 5:32 PM, Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

MAM sent you T rails for 1500 floats... they are about 21 inches
shorter
than the 1800's !

Funny you have 6 though... you should only have 4 x 16' pieces of T
rail.



----- Original Message -----
From: "Rebecca Brownell" <brownell@cottagecountry.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 5:28 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] 1800 amphibs

Here we go again.Are the top rails not supposed to be the full length
of the float?One piece aprox 15'9".I have 5 pieces 14'2" long.The way
I read the manual It's supposed to be one piece and trim off the
extra.What the.........?
Jason
817R



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[Rebecca Brownell]

You don't happen to have 4 sitting there do you?
On 19-Nov-09, at 5:46 PM, Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

The "one piece 15'9" long thru me off on the count ! LOL

So they gave you an extra one.. how nice.. still not gonna get you
out of
the jam! They are to be one piece end to end and as I said those 14'
2" r's
are for 1500 floats. Guess you'd better get after Stephane for a set
of 4
the proper length.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rebecca Brownell" <brownell@cottagecountry.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 1800 amphibs

Hi Wayne I have 5 14'pieces.What the he.. do I do now?
On 19-Nov-09, at 5:32 PM, Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

MAM sent you T rails for 1500 floats... they are about 21 inches
shorter
than the 1800's !

Funny you have 6 though... you should only have 4 x 16' pieces of T
rail.



----- Original Message -----
From: "Rebecca Brownell" <brownell@cottagecountry.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 5:28 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] 1800 amphibs




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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

...... ;O))

How much money you got?? lol

Send me a direct email.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rebecca Brownell" <brownell@cottagecountry.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 7:02 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 1800 amphibs

You don't happen to have 4 sitting there do you?
On 19-Nov-09, at 5:46 PM, Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

The "one piece 15'9" long thru me off on the count ! LOL

So they gave you an extra one.. how nice.. still not gonna get you
out of
the jam! They are to be one piece end to end and as I said those 14'
2" r's
are for 1500 floats. Guess you'd better get after Stephane for a set
of 4
the proper length.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rebecca Brownell" <brownell@cottagecountry.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 1800 amphibs

Hi Wayne I have 5 14'pieces.What the he.. do I do now?
On 19-Nov-09, at 5:32 PM, Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:


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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Jason.. Jason.. Jason.. have I ever mentioned I have a 1200 picture CD?? lol

Those instructions are for old design with the stupid 3/8 NPT barb etc.
Determine what diameter hole you need for the pump out cups... and then make
a template to do every compartment the same. I'll lend you a picture
directly!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rebecca Brownell" <brownell@cottagecountry.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 7:58 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] 1800 amphibs

Hello all.Searching for some clarity.Again.FL 267's pump out
fittings.The manual shows the location for the first two(inboard
skin).There is no mention of them anywhere else in the manual.Does one
just put them in each compartment in a similar location as the first
two all on the inboard skin?Second is, it says to drill a 9/16" hole
for the centre.Is this size hole for an older part?The hole has to be
at least 1 1/8 for the plug to fit in. Third. the hoses that attach to
the fittings that go to the bottom of the float,are they attached to
anything at the bottom or do they just float around in there?There is
no info on this as well.If anyone could shed some light on these
points or any others that my be pertinent it will be greatly
appreciated.




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[Ken]

Most floats have the pumpouts on the outboard side of the float.
They go at the forward end of each compartment for compartments behind
the step of course. Yes fasten the bottom of the hoses with a clamp or
something but maybe leave them free until the bottoms are on and sealed.
The Lake'n Air pumpouts are very thin so heat the hose a bit if need be
so it slides on easy without deforming the pumpout. 5/8" garden water
hose worked OK for me.
Ken

Rebecca Brownell wrote:

Hello all.Searching for some clarity.Again.FL 267's pump out
fittings.The manual shows the location for the first two(inboard
skin).There is no mention of them anywhere else in the manual.Does one
just put them in each compartment in a similar location as the first
two all on the inboard skin?Second is, it says to drill a 9/16" hole
for the centre.Is this size hole for an older part?The hole has to be
at least 1 1/8 for the plug to fit in. Third. the hoses that attach to
the fittings that go to the bottom of the float,are they attached to
anything at the bottom or do they just float around in there?There is
no info on this as well.If anyone could shed some light on these
points or any others that my be pertinent it will be greatly
appreciated.

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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

I do the hoses with the clamp about 2" up from the bottom.. and use it to
hold the hoses back out of the way during bottom install. Then loosen the
clamp off during float install, to the aircraft, so that the hose sits down
in the proper place and tighten the clamp back up.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 8:27 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 1800 amphibs

Most floats have the pumpouts on the outboard side of the float.
They go at the forward end of each compartment for compartments behind
the step of course. Yes fasten the bottom of the hoses with a clamp or
something but maybe leave them free until the bottoms are on and sealed.
The Lake'n Air pumpouts are very thin so heat the hose a bit if need be
so it slides on easy without deforming the pumpout. 5/8" garden water
hose worked OK for me.
Ken

Rebecca Brownell wrote:

Hello all.Searching for some clarity.Again.FL 267's pump out
fittings.The manual shows the location for the first two(inboard
skin).There is no mention of them anywhere else in the manual.Does one
just put them in each compartment in a similar location as the first
two all on the inboard skin?Second is, it says to drill a 9/16" hole
for the centre.Is this size hole for an older part?The hole has to be
at least 1 1/8 for the plug to fit in. Third. the hoses that attach to
the fittings that go to the bottom of the float,are they attached to
anything at the bottom or do they just float around in there?There is
no info on this as well.If anyone could shed some light on these
points or any others that my be pertinent it will be greatly
appreciated.

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[Ken]

What is the pressure?

Does the gear bind if you disconnect the cylinder clevis and move it by
hand?

I don't see over about 50 psi when pumping until full travel, then I
bump it up to 150. I have a relief valve but I've never heard of anyone
else putting a relief valve in the system.

Ken

Andrew Burr wrote:

I'm having trouble getting the gear to come down on my amphibious
floats. The main gear comes down fine but as soon as the front gear
goes past center and free falls the front gear will not pump down any
more. leaving the front gear part way between up and down and not
locked. Does any one have any experience with this. I also have an
electric pump and I get the same thing with either the hand pump or
the electric pump.

Thanks

Andrew E Burr XIV

Vertical performance LLc

Po Box 213

Cassville MO 65625

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[Andrew Burr]

Ken,
My system usually stays at 30 psi and will go to 40 psi when I pump the gear down or up. I can pull the front gear up or down by hand with the cylinders attached and all lines attached with no resistance. Which tells me I have either air in the system or a leak. I'm not loosing any fluid out of the reservoir so I don't suspect a leak. I'm a little confused about the fact I can move the front gear with all the lines hooked up by hand. The front gear will also free fall on its own wen it goes over center. It will flop down on its own an stay there no matter how much I pump it, it won't move. If I hold back on it while the pump is running than it will push down the side I'm not holding till full travel than it will move the side I'm holding back. Once I get it to pump up I can't pull the gear up by hand. It almost seems like the oil is bypassing in the cylinder. I'm going to open up the forward compartments today and see if I can bleed the cylinders some
how. I emailed Murphy for some prints and a service manual but have had no response.
Does Murphy have a tech person?

Thanks

Andrew E Burr XIV

Vertical performance LLc

Po Box 213

Cassville MO 65625



VPHelo, LLc has paid for the design and engineering for every component and holds ownership of all intellectual property for each component.

--- On Thu, 7/8/10, Ken <klehman@albedo.net> wrote:

From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 1800 amphibs
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Date: Thursday, July 8, 2010, 11:35 AM

What is the pressure?

Does the gear bind if you disconnect the cylinder clevis and move it by
hand?

I don't see over about 50 psi when pumping until full travel, then I
bump it up to 150. I have a relief valve but I've never heard of anyone
else putting a relief valve in the system.

Ken

Andrew Burr wrote:
[quote]I'm having trouble getting the gear to come down on my amphibious
floats. The main gear comes down fine but as soon as the front gear
goes past center and free falls the front gear will not pump down any
more. leaving the front gear part way between up and down and not
locked. Does any one have any experience with this. I also have an
electric pump and I get the same thing with either the hand pump or
the electric pump.

Thanks

Andrew E Burr XIV

Vertical performance LLc

Po Box 213

Cassville MO

[jbcressman]

Andrew...My pressures are exactly like Ken's. Is it possible that you have air in the front "down" lines? Bob 331R





---- Original Message ----
From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Sent: Thu, Jul 8, 2010 7:35 am
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 1800 amphibs


What is the pressure?

Does the gear bind if you disconnect the cylinder clevis and move it by
hand?

I don't see over about 50 psi when pumping until full travel, then I
bump it up to 150. I have a relief valve but I've never heard of anyone
else putting a relief valve in the system.

Ken

Andrew Burr wrote:

I'm having trouble getting the gear to come down on my amphibious
floats. The main gear comes down fine but as soon as the front gear
goes past center and free falls the front gear will not pump down any
more. leaving the front gear part way between up and down and not
locked. Does any one have any experience with this. I also have an
electric pump and I get the same thing with either the hand pump or
the electric pump.

Thanks

Andrew E Burr XIV

Vertical performance LLc

Po Box 213

Cassville MO 65625

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[Dick Wampach]

Could the system be low on hydraulic fluid?

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Andrew
Burr
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 8:39 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] 1800 amphibs


I'm having trouble getting the gear to come down on my amphibious floats.
The main gear comes down fine but as soon as the front gear goes past center
and free falls the front gear will not pump down any more. leaving the front
gear part way between up and down and not locked. Does any one have any
experience with this. I also have an electric pump and I get the same thing
with either the hand pump or the electric pump.

Thanks

Andrew E Burr XIV

Vertical performance LLc

Po Box 213

Cassville MO 65625



VPHelo, LLc has paid for the design and engineering for every component and
holds ownership of all intellectual property for each component.






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[Drew Dalgleish]

Without knowing how your electric pump is plumbed in it's tough to guess
but on my amphibs I had both the check valves on the hand pump fail with
similar problems but not as bad as what you describe. The cylinders have
single o-rings and they can leak internally. What are you using for oil?
Also the piston is just screwed into the cylinder rod and possibly could
come undone.

At 05:37 AM 08/07/2010 -0700, you wrote:

Ken,
My system usually stays at 30 psi and will go to 40 psi when I pump the

gear down or up. I can pull the front gear up or down by hand with the
cylinders attached and all lines attached with no resistance. Which tells
me I have either air in the system or a leak. I'm not loosing any fluid out
of the reservoir so I don't suspect a leak. I'm a little confused about the
fact I can move the front gear with all the lines hooked up by hand. The
front gear will also free fall on its own wen it goes over center. It will
flop down on its own an stay there no matter how much I pump it, it won't
move. If I hold back on it while the pump is running than it will push down
the side I'm not holding till full travel than it will move the side I'm
holding back. Once I get it to pump up I can't pull the gear up by hand. It
almost seems like the oil is bypassing in the cylinder. I'm going to open
up the forward compartments today and see if I can bleed the cylinders some

how. I emailed Murphy for some prints and a service manual but have had

no response.

Does Murphy have a tech person?

Thanks

Andrew E Burr XIV

Vertical performance LLc

Po Box 213

Cassville MO 65625



VPHelo, LLc has paid for the design and engineering for every component

and holds ownership of all intellectual property for each component.

--- On Thu, 7/8/10, Ken <klehman@albedo.net> wrote:

From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 1800 amphibs
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Date: Thursday, July 8, 2010, 11:35 AM

What is the pressure?

Does the gear bind if you disconnect the cylinder clevis and move it by
hand?

I don't see over about 50 psi when pumping until full travel, then I
bump it up to 150. I have a relief valve but I've never heard of anyone
else putting a relief valve in the system.

Ken

Andrew Burr wrote:

I'm having trouble getting the gear to come down on my amphibious
floats. The main gear comes down fine but as soon as the front gear
goes past center and free falls the front gear will not pump down any
more. leaving the front gear part way between up and down and not
locked. Does any one have any experience with this. I also have an
electric pump and I get the same thing with either the hand pump or
the electric pump.

Thanks

Andrew E Burr XIV

Vertical performance LLc

Po Box 213

Cassville MO

[Andrew Burr]

Ken I have it working again and seems to be working pretty well. My guise, it was air in the system.
I'm using 5606, I'm not a big fan of automatic trans fluid. O-rings ussually don't like it!
I also suspected I had an O-ring go bad and thought the cylinder was leaking internally. All seems good now. All I did was let it sit while I was off flying for a living came back two days later jacked it up and everything worked.

[Jbcressman]

Hi Andrew....My main gear comes down or up with 25-30 lbs, pressure. The pilot side front comes up or down with
+ or - 75 lbs and the passenger side front might push up to 100 lbs. I have never seen a needed pressure in the range
of which you speak. My guess is that you have "binding" somewhere as well as air in the lines. Bob 331R





---- Original Message ----
From: Andrew Burr <verticalperformance@yahoo.com>
To: Rebel owners <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sat, Sep 4, 2010 7:57 pm
Subject: [rebel-builders] 1800 amphibs


Well my gear battle continues.

I have been having troubles getting my gear to come down. The manes come down ok
but the front gear will hang up at the midway down point.

I thought I would share with you what I have found to date.

My pressure gauge is around 350 - 400lbs when I'm pumping the gear down when
the gear is static the pressure gauge shows 300lbs.

I decided to take the front gear apart which turned out to be a good idea. I
found the bolts that hold the rollers on the front gear were all bent. I figured
this could be why the gear seemed not to slide smoothly. This was on the
copilots side I haven't gotton the pilot side apart yet.
I also found the main gear rubbing on the wheel well cut outs. Did a little
clearance work and that is now fixed.

I figured I'm getting air in the system because at times I can push the front
gear up by hand and the only way that could happen is air being trapped in the
system.

My hand pump is seeping and I believe this could be were the air is entering the
system.
The funny thing is I can pump the gear a few times and all will be good. I let
it sit and It is back to the same old problem.

My question is has any one had these problems and what pressure are people
seeing on there system.

Thanks
Andrew E Burr XIV

Vertical performance LLc

Po Box 213

Cassville MO 65625



VPHelo, LLc has paid for the design and engineering for every component and
holds ownership of all intellectual property for each component.






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[Ken]

If you have the Murphy hand pump there is no possible way a normal man
can be pumping out anywhere near 400 psi... I have to bounce on the
handle with most of my weight to get 200.
While removed you might check that the slots for the nylon rollers on
the those gear are wide enough. Mine had burrs extending full length on
the edge that had to be filed off or the rollers would not slide properly.
Other than that maybe re read the previous thread as I have nothing new
to add other than what has already been discussed. Good luck.
Ken

Andrew Burr wrote:

Well my gear battle continues.

I have been having troubles getting my gear to come down. The manes come down ok but the front gear will hang up at the midway down point.

I thought I would share with you what I have found to date.

My pressure gauge is around 350 - 400lbs when I'm pumping the gear down when the gear is static the pressure gauge shows 300lbs.

I decided to take the front gear apart which turned out to be a good idea. I found the bolts that hold the rollers on the front gear were all bent. I figured this could be why the gear seemed not to slide smoothly. This was on the copilots side I haven't gotton the pilot side apart yet.
I also found the main gear rubbing on the wheel well cut outs. Did a little clearance work and that is now fixed.

I figured I'm getting air in the system because at times I can push the front gear up by hand and the only way that could happen is air being trapped in the system.

My hand pump is seeping and I believe this could be were the air is entering the system.
The funny thing is I can pump the gear a few times and all will be good. I let it sit and It is back to the same old problem.

My question is has any one had these problems and what pressure are people seeing on there system.

Thanks
Andrew E Burr XIV

Vertical performance LLc

Po Box 213

Cassville MO 65625



VPHelo, LLc has paid for the design and engineering for every component and holds ownership of all intellectual property for each component.






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[Andrew Burr]

My thinking is my gauge is stuck. Because wen I crack a line when the gauge is reading 300lbs there is no were near that kind of pressure coming out of the line. The gauge goes from 300lbs to maybe 400lbs so if the gauge is stuck that would be right were you are. Wen I change the selector from down to up the gauge only goes down to 300lbs.
Does yours go to zero when selecting from up to down.

Thanks for the input!

Andrew E Burr XIV

Vertical performance LLc

Po Box 213

Cassville MO 65625



VPHelo, LLc has paid for the design and engineering for every component and holds ownership of all intellectual property for each component.

--- On Sun, 9/5/10, Jbcressman <jbcressman@aol.com> wrote:

From: Jbcressman <jbcressman@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] 1800 amphibs
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Date: Sunday, September 5, 2010, 12:23 AM

Hi Andrew....My main gear comes down or up with 25-30 lbs, pressure. The pilot side front comes up or down with
+ or - 75 lbs and the passenger side front might push up to 100 lbs. I have never seen a needed pressure in the range
of which you speak. My guess is that you have "binding" somewhere as well as air in the lines. Bob 331R





---- Original Message ----
From: Andrew Burr <verticalperformance@yahoo.com>
To: Rebel owners <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sat, Sep 4, 2010 7:57 pm
Subject: [rebel-builders] 1800 amphibs


Well my gear battle continues.

I have been having troubles getting my gear to come down. The manes come down ok
but the front gear will hang up at the midway down point.

I thought I would share with you what I have found to date.

My pressure gauge is around 350 - 400lbs