PROSEAL

[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Alister(and All), you should be all right using av gas and note that there
are sloshing compounds that are compatible with alcohol, but the one I have
seen (white Randolph) is much thinner and doesn't seem to fill holes as well
as the old gooey Randolph yellow stuff (that alcohol eats), instead they
just pour right through. OF course I know this from using the stuff in
customers Zenair floats that are impossible to get inside to fix seepage
correctly, unlike a good set of Murphy's where you can do it right with
proseal or Sikaflex.

I have also seen Red sloshing compound in a few Rebels. Does anyone know
what Brand this is and if it is alcohol compatible??

I also have to fess up that I have the old style yellow (non alcohol
compatible) Randolph sealer in my tanks, but just brushed across the lower
tank skin rivet heads. My tanks have the RV1410 style normal rivets
throughout and not the tank style RR6402's, so being neive at the time of
construction in 1993 I wanted to be sure that at least the bottom skin held
fuel. On my first big cross country, to Oshkosh 1995 with my son, we got
100LL fuel in Escanaba Michigan (Delta airport). While sitting under the
wing at Oshkosh fuel drops starting hitting me on the head from a few of the
lower tank rivets. After our return to Canada I drained my tanks and
refilled them with Hammond's 100LL from Midland Airport (and what I now have
here at home) and all the leaks stopped and have never leaked again in
almost 8 years!! It appears that something in the fuel at Delta softened the
sloshing compound so that the fuel could leach past it and through the rivet
mandrels.

I talked with many people about this over the years and have heard very
similar stories of questionable fuel at various small airports throughout
the USA. They may cut it with anything to stretch it and help the profit
margin, so be careful and check your fuel for alcohol etc on a regular
basis. Easy to do, just put water in the test gauge first and if the "water"
mark rises after you put fuel into it (provided of course you know there
isn't any water in the fuel sample) you have fuel with alcohol in it.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "yeom" <yeom@xtra.co.nz>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Proseal

Thanks Rick! Glad to hear that I got one right!! :>)) and that you now

have

no concerns for your tanks integrity (unless of course you used some
sloshing compound!!)

Hi All,
I have to say that I used sloshing compound on my tank and have
had no trouble to date (5 years now) but then I do not use auto fuel

Cheers

Alister

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[Legeorgen]

Alister,

My tanks have the "old" Randolph sloshing compound (the one that does not say
it's OK to use with auto fuel, like the newer Randolph 912 (?).) I started
soaking pieces of aluminum with the old sealant cured to it, in a jar of auto
gas (with methanol) and 2- 1/2 years later it's still adhering to the
aluminum and has to be scraped off with a blade.

I've been flying for 6 months and have experienced no problems (Knock on
wood). I would not have used it myself because of problems with another
sloshing compound I had in my Kitfox. And had to remove it. The Kitfox,
however, has fiberglass tanks. The wings tanks of my Rebel were already built
when I bought the kit and the first builder had already sloshed the tanks
because one leaked. I cut the wing skins outside the tank and repaired it
with proseal from the outside, leaving the sloshing compound alone. It is a
real pain to get it out!

I still go over and check my "jar" several times a month, out of habit, just
to relieve my fears. I suppose I should fill it with fresh gas. I was told it
was the alcohol that destroys the sealant.

Bruce 357R





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[Legeorgen]

Wayne,

Just how yellow is the "old" Randolph slosh? The slosh in my tank was white
in color but I believe was added to the wing in 95, so I assumed it was the
old stuff. I thought the newer auto grade Randolph was introduced in 96 or
97. After testing pieces of the slosh coated aluminum it in a jar of auto gas
I felt confident enough to start mixing auto fuel with 100LL. just very
recently.

On another subject. I have heard several builders claim 120 MPH cruise speeds
at 75% (like MAM advertises) with the 0320 Lycoming and a 74x56 Sensenich
metal prop. My cruise at this power setting is 110 MPH. I have the spring
gear not faired, no wheel pants (don't want them) and a speed cowl. I find it
hard to believe, from my own experience, that I can pick up 10 MPH with wheel
pant spring gear faring and a few other possible drag reducers. Any comments?

Bruce 357R




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[yeom]

My tanks have the "old" Randolph sloshing compound (the one that does not

say

it's OK to use with auto fuel, like the newer Randolph 912 (?).) I started
soaking pieces of aluminum with the old sealant cured to it, in a jar of

auto

gas (with methanol) and 2- 1/2 years later it's still adhering to the
aluminum and has to be scraped off with a blade.

Hi Bruce,
I used the 'old' yellow Randolph sloshing compound, at the
time, an experienced aircraft engineer commented that it met all the
military spec's and recommended it. ( presumably the military does not use
auto gas in their aircraft!:>))

I do not regret using it.

Cheers

Alister




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[George Coy]

We run a certified repair station. I have been in the business for 20 years.
I have yet to see an airplane where the "slosh" compound did not start
coming loose after about 10 years. You cannot imagine how difficult it is to
open up a tank to remove the junk that starts floating around clogging the
fuel system. We have an Aero commander Darter and a Piper Cherokee here that
we have yet to deal with this issue. The Cherokee is not too bad as we can
easily remove the tank and send it out. The Darter requires wing removal to
remove the tank and then cutting it open cleaning it then welding and re
sealing. All because someone dumped in some of the Randolph sloshing
compound instead of properly fixing the problem.
George Coy

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Legeorgen@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 11:56 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Proseal

Wayne,

Just how yellow is the "old" Randolph slosh? The slosh in my tank was white
in color but I believe was added to the wing in 95, so I assumed it was the
old stuff. I thought the newer auto grade Randolph was introduced in 96 or
97. After testing pieces of the slosh coated aluminum it in a jar of auto
gas
I felt confident enough to start mixing auto fuel with 100LL. just very
recently.

On another subject. I have heard several builders claim 120 MPH cruise
speeds
at 75% (like MAM advertises) with the 0320 Lycoming and a 74x56 Sensenich
metal prop. My cruise at this power setting is 110 MPH. I have the spring
gear not faired, no wheel pants (don't want them) and a speed cowl. I find
it
hard to believe, from my own experience, that I can pick up 10 MPH with
wheel
pant spring gear faring and a few other possible drag reducers. Any
comments?

Bruce 357R



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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Bruce, the Randolph 802 is Yellow (like egg yolk colour) and about the
consistency of thick eggnog. The 912 is white and very thin consistency like
watered down milk. Even though the 912 is alcohol resistant, like George
points out, any type of sloshing is apparently designed as a temporary fix.
When I fixed the leaking tanks, with Proseal, on Charles Dixon's Mississippi
Rebel (that met it's fait in Alaska!) there had been white sloshing compound
used on them when Al Colburn built it originally. Not sure how it was done
(or if it was Randolph) but the stuff on the outside of the rear tank
bulkheads, that had run through the leak holes from inside the tank, flaked
off like dead skin after a good sunburn. No adhesion what so ever!

At least with the Rebels two wing tanks you have some redundancy, if one all
of sudden decides to stop feeding because break away slosh smothered the
finger screen. This is another reason why it is sooooo important to have a
finger screen. When I had the wings off and did the upgrade to the wings on
FOKM, I found that it didn't have any finger screens in the tank outlets
(factoy built!!)!! Anyone on the list that is flying an aircraft that you
didn't build, or purchased partial complete, make darn sure you have a set
in your tanks!

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <Legeorgen@aol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 11:55 PM
Subject: Re: Proseal

Wayne,

Just how yellow is the "old" Randolph slosh? The slosh in my tank was

white

in color but I believe was added to the wing in 95, so I assumed it was

the

old stuff. I thought the newer auto grade Randolph was introduced in 96 or
97. After testing pieces of the slosh coated aluminum it in a jar of auto

gas

I felt confident enough to start mixing auto fuel with 100LL. just very
recently.

On another subject. I have heard several builders claim 120 MPH cruise

speeds

at 75% (like MAM advertises) with the 0320 Lycoming and a 74x56 Sensenich
metal prop. My cruise at this power setting is 110 MPH. I have the spring
gear not faired, no wheel pants (don't want them) and a speed cowl. I find

it

hard to believe, from my own experience, that I can pick up 10 MPH with

wheel

pant spring gear faring and a few other possible drag reducers. Any

comments?

Bruce 357R

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[Legeorgen]

Alister,

In your tanks that are sloshed with the old Randolph sealer, do you use auto
fuel at all?

Bruce 357R




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[Legeorgen]

Hi George,

You can remove the slosh out of the tank by filling it with MEK. About a half
gallon at a time until its runs out clear. It requires a few guys to help you
rotate the wing. It is quit doable, I know, because I've done it on my Kitfox
with fiberglass tanks. I am not sure if the MEK will effect the proseal so
you would be wise to test it first.

Bruce 357R




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[Legeorgen]

Wayne, Alister and George,

Thanks for the heads up on sloshing compounds. I will continue to keep a
close eye on my Randolph slosh and finger screens even though I now believe
my slosh was the newer Alcohol resistant type 912 (it was white and runny).
It did, however, adhere very well to the aluminum. It is difficult to remove
even now after being soaked in auto gas for over two years.

Bruce 357R




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[yeom]

Alister

In your tanks that are sloshed with the old Randolph sealer, do you use

auto

fuel at all?

Hi Bruce
No not at all, Avgas only. By the sounds of it I better stay
that way!

Cheers

Alister







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[rognal]

Steve,

FWIW, you may want to talk to the people at Flamemaster Corp. Their website is
at http://www.flamemaster.com/Index.htm.

They make the same sealant, to same mil-spec, and compatible with the ProSeal
products, but are (or were)a little less expensive than ProSeal.

Congratulations and good luck.

Roger Hoffman #687R
Eugene, OR USA!


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[Steve Halvorsen]

Just rec'd our fast build MOOSE kit last night after waiting a YEAR for it.
Lots of parts! ! !

Can anyone suggest about how many quarts of Proseal would be req'd to finish
the kit and the best place to purchase from ????

Now to do the inventory of what was sent. They already started a back order
list of things that were not sent.

Steve H
Moose 213




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[Scott & Leere' Aldrich]

In theory, the quantity required for fast build fuel tanks is none.
I heard a rumor that with a new guy overseas the tanks were actually getting
pressure tested now.

Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Steve Halvorsen
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 5:03 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: ProSeal



Just rec'd our fast build MOOSE kit last night after waiting a YEAR for it.
Lots of parts! ! !

Can anyone suggest about how many quarts of Proseal would be req'd to finish
the kit and the best place to purchase from ????

Now to do the inventory of what was sent. They already started a back order
list of things that were not sent.

Steve H
Moose 213




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[capete]

Hey Steve congrats!

How much of the tanks to seal? 80 or 120 gal? What stage of completion are
the tanks on your fast build? Elaine from MAM quoted us $85 for a quart, I
am assuming that is canadian dollars. Aircraft Spruce also sells pro-seal,
approx. $75 USD.

Peter & Monica
SR003Moose


----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Halvorsen" <shalvorsen@dataflo.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 7:03 PM
Subject: ProSeal

Just rec'd our fast build MOOSE kit last night after waiting a YEAR for

it.

Lots of parts! ! !

Can anyone suggest about how many quarts of Proseal would be req'd to

finish

the kit and the best place to purchase from ????

Now to do the inventory of what was sent. They already started a back

order

list of things that were not sent.

Steve H
Moose 213

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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Got lost in cyber space so I have resent! Also note re Scott's post they
were supposed to be pressure tested before shipment right from the start!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 8:10 PM
Subject: Re: ProSeal


Steve, if the fast build is supposed to have presure tested tanks when
received you shouldn't need any should you??

Guys that have been here please speak up!

If the tanks leak you shouldn't need to buy any either and I'd be having MAM
send you some Proseal to fix what was supposed to be done for you (that you
already paid for!)

As for the actual scratch building of SR wings. I used less than 2 quarts of
PRC to complete BOTH of the SR wings that I have here, with four "bay"
tanks.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Halvorsen" <shalvorsen@dataflo.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 7:03 PM
Subject: ProSeal

Just rec'd our fast build MOOSE kit last night after waiting a YEAR for

it.

Lots of parts! ! !

Can anyone suggest about how many quarts of Proseal would be req'd to

finish

the kit and the best place to purchase from ????

Now to do the inventory of what was sent. They already started a back

order

list of things that were not sent.

Steve H
Moose 213

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