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[rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Converted from Wildcat! database. (read only)
cosmedi

[rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Post by cosmedi » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:12 pm

---- Bob Patterson <beep@sympatico.ca> wrote:
Hi Mike !

Steve's on the right track ! The Elite we flew back from
BC to Ottawa had an O-360 and a 76 x 58" prop - just like
yours .... It definitely was not smooth below 2,500 rpm.
ALL O-360's I have flown like to run fast - they are happiest
at 2,550 - 2,650 rpm for cruise. It's the design of the engine.

I would NOT run at 2,400 with an O-360 - especially
if there is a noticeable vibration. Just a matter of time
until something breaks !

Steve is on the right track - manifold pressure increases
with pitch --- it's like driving your car up a steep hill in
high gear ! The engine is working hard, and the load
most likely is causing the shake .... and it's in the known
harmonic rpm range for O-360's ...

Try climbing to a decent altitude, set up for cruise
at 2,400+, then push to get a steady 200 - 300+ fpm descent.
this will unload the prop, and the rpm should increase,
maybe past 2,500 ---- and the shake might be gone ! If it is,
then you know for sure it's best to cruise at 2,500++.
Unloading the prop should lower manifold pressure
a bit ....

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Wednesday 20 June 2007 19:56, Mike Betti wrote:
58" fixed pitch prop and I don't monitor manifold pressure. Isn't it just
vacuum on a natural aspirated engine?
Mike


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cosmedi

[rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Post by cosmedi » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:12 pm

Mike, Bob, Wayne and others,
I am NOT an engine expert but and have been following the discussion. A similiar problem discussion on the PA38 group occurred. Looked at your linkages at your carbie. Sounds very familiar.

Greg. Gordon.
Elite. 724



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michael betti

[rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Post by michael betti » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:12 pm

First of all this miss I talk about is not a vibration. When you loose
a plug the engine misses and vibrates, nothing like that. My prop is
76X58. From a pilots standpoint, the engine is smooth as glass up to
2400! It has noticeable vibration at any rpm above that, although the
amount of vibration seems acceptable, it is noticable. This is the
opposite of your experence for some reason. I tried cruising at 2550
the other night and the engine still has that so called miss, and there
is more vibration in the cabin, and I am running about 135 mph. My take
off rpm is 2500. I can easily red line my engine in straight and level
flight at full throttle too.
Mike

----Original Message----
From: beep@sympatico.ca
Date: 06/20/2007 22:05
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subj: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Hi Mike !

Steve's on the right track ! The Elite we flew back from
BC to Ottawa had an O-360 and a 76 x 58" prop - just like
yours .... It definitely was not smooth below 2,500 rpm.
ALL O-360's I have flown like to run fast - they are happiest
at 2,550 - 2,650 rpm for cruise. It's the design of the engine.

I would NOT run at 2,400 with an O-360 - especially
if there is a noticeable vibration. Just a matter of time
until something breaks !

Steve is on the right track - manifold pressure increases
with pitch --- it's like driving your car up a steep hill in
high gear ! The engine is working hard, and the load
most likely is causing the shake .... and it's in the known
harmonic rpm range for O-360's ...

Try climbing to a decent altitude, set up for cruise
at 2,400+, then push to get a steady 200 - 300+ fpm descent.
this will unload the prop, and the rpm should increase,
maybe past 2,500 ---- and the shake might be gone ! If it is,
then you know for sure it's best to cruise at 2,500++.
Unloading the prop should lower manifold pressure
a bit ....

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Wednesday 20 June 2007 19:56, Mike Betti wrote:
58" fixed pitch prop and I don't monitor manifold pressure. Isn't it
just
vacuum on a natural aspirated engine?
Mike


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steve whitenect

[rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Post by steve whitenect » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:12 pm

Mike
Is your engine New or "experimental" overhaul?

Steve

From: michael betti <mbetti@hughes.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 14:03:11 +0000 (UTC)

First of all this miss I talk about is not a vibration. When you loose
a plug the engine misses and vibrates, nothing like that. My prop is
76X58. From a pilots standpoint, the engine is smooth as glass up to
2400! It has noticeable vibration at any rpm above that, although the
amount of vibration seems acceptable, it is noticable. This is the
opposite of your experence for some reason. I tried cruising at 2550
the other night and the engine still has that so called miss, and there
is more vibration in the cabin, and I am running about 135 mph. My take
off rpm is 2500. I can easily red line my engine in straight and level
flight at full throttle too.
Mike

----Original Message----
From: beep@sympatico.ca
Date: 06/20/2007 22:05
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subj: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Hi Mike !

Steve's on the right track ! The Elite we flew back from
BC to Ottawa had an O-360 and a 76 x 58" prop - just like
yours .... It definitely was not smooth below 2,500 rpm.
ALL O-360's I have flown like to run fast - they are happiest
at 2,550 - 2,650 rpm for cruise. It's the design of the engine.

I would NOT run at 2,400 with an O-360 - especially
if there is a noticeable vibration. Just a matter of time
until something breaks !

Steve is on the right track - manifold pressure increases
with pitch --- it's like driving your car up a steep hill in
high gear ! The engine is working hard, and the load
most likely is causing the shake .... and it's in the known
harmonic rpm range for O-360's ...

Try climbing to a decent altitude, set up for cruise
at 2,400+, then push to get a steady 200 - 300+ fpm descent.
this will unload the prop, and the rpm should increase,
maybe past 2,500 ---- and the shake might be gone ! If it is,
then you know for sure it's best to cruise at 2,500++.
Unloading the prop should lower manifold pressure
a bit ....

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Wednesday 20 June 2007 19:56, Mike Betti wrote:
58" fixed pitch prop and I don't monitor manifold pressure. Isn't it
just
vacuum on a natural aspirated engine?
Mike


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Bob Patterson

[rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Post by Bob Patterson » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:12 pm

We were getting exactly the same speeds with John's Elite,
or maybe a bit faster - same prop & engine. Smooth running
all the way across the country, mostly at 2,550. If you get vibration
at higher RPM, it might be worth finding a shop that can do
a dynamic prop balance - usually about $100 .... Done on
the airplane, running, so it takes care of all weight issues.

Vibration could cause frothing in the carb that would
give a little miss.....

Still might be worth a run without the air filter, to
see if that has any effect. Apparently several Elites have
used the O-320 metal air box, and it's just too small !
This causes the engine to shake enough to wear out the
bushings on the carb air shafts in 100 hours or so ....
I know you have the larger Van's fiberglass airbox,
but maybe there's a flow problem. At least one of
these had the emergency air flapper - held by magnet
& spring - being sucked open at higher power settings,
causing a lack of carb heat effectiveness, and possibly
other running issues ....

Another thought might be to check the gap on the
mag points - maybe a bit wider would help .... Might
mean adjusting the timing a bit, for a bit more advance ...

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Thursday 21 June 2007 10:03, michael betti wrote:
First of all this miss I talk about is not a vibration. When you loose
a plug the engine misses and vibrates, nothing like that. My prop is
76X58. From a pilots standpoint, the engine is smooth as glass up to
2400! It has noticeable vibration at any rpm above that, although the
amount of vibration seems acceptable, it is noticable. This is the
opposite of your experence for some reason. I tried cruising at 2550
the other night and the engine still has that so called miss, and there
is more vibration in the cabin, and I am running about 135 mph. My take
off rpm is 2500. I can easily red line my engine in straight and level
flight at full throttle too.
Mike

----Original Message----
From: beep@sympatico.ca
Date: 06/20/2007 22:05
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subj: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Hi Mike !

Steve's on the right track ! The Elite we flew back from
BC to Ottawa had an O-360 and a 76 x 58" prop - just like
yours .... It definitely was not smooth below 2,500 rpm.
ALL O-360's I have flown like to run fast - they are happiest
at 2,550 - 2,650 rpm for cruise. It's the design of the engine.

I would NOT run at 2,400 with an O-360 - especially
if there is a noticeable vibration. Just a matter of time
until something breaks !

Steve is on the right track - manifold pressure increases
with pitch --- it's like driving your car up a steep hill in
high gear ! The engine is working hard, and the load
most likely is causing the shake .... and it's in the known
harmonic rpm range for O-360's ...

Try climbing to a decent altitude, set up for cruise
at 2,400+, then push to get a steady 200 - 300+ fpm descent.
this will unload the prop, and the rpm should increase,
maybe past 2,500 ---- and the shake might be gone ! If it is,
then you know for sure it's best to cruise at 2,500++.
Unloading the prop should lower manifold pressure
a bit ....


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Richard Wampach

[rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Post by Richard Wampach » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:12 pm

Which model? If 4000 series throw them away, 4100, 4200, 4300 series
check for cross-firing internally with a high tension harness tester. I
once condemned 4 of them on a new Cessna twin (the 303) for that same
problem at its first 100 hour inspection. The critics said not
possible, but Slick agreed and paid the warranty claim in full. These
days I only recommend Bendix even though they have a 500 hr AD on the
impulse coupling, it's worth it to have reliable ignition. At the very
minimumn do the 100 hour inspection on Slicks often--point gap, carbon
tracks in the distributor etc.

Dick Wampach A/P, I/A SR-108.



-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Mike Betti
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 4:11 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

2 Slick mags

----- Original Message -----
From: "steve whitenect" <srwhitenect@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Mike
Are you running two mags or electronic ingition?

Steve

From: michael betti <mbetti@hughes.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 13:07:12 +0000 (UTC)

That's the weird part. I try leaning when the engine is doing this and
nothing changes, other than it runs a little rougher because of being
lean. This problem I am having is pretty insignificant. You can cruise
all day long with it doing this and most people probably wouldn't
notice, but it is there. Just a slight jerk in the engine like the
ignition was interrupted for a split second.
Mike

----Original Message----
From: beep@sympatico.ca
Date: 06/19/2007 21:42
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subj: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Hi Mike !

Hmmmm ... You have the opposite of the problem I had ! Mine
started
missing above 8,000 ft ...

If it goes away with altitude, your mixture might be just a bit
rich -
have you tried leaning a bit when it's rough ?? Lean until you get
an rpm drop, then push in just enough to get back to peak, plus
enough so it just starts to drop again....

Being a bit rich would explain why Rick's suggestion of carb
heat wouldn't help ... it might make it worse....

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 19 June 2007 21:47, Mike Betti wrote:
Update on problem. I flew it tonight and noticed that the problem
goes away
above 5000' msl. I can't say for sure about this but it makes sense
so far.
I need to test another night to see if there is a pattern. So what
does it
mean. The problem is from about 2400 to 2600. Full throttle ok and
anything
less than that ok. Engine just gives a little jerk you feel in the
pedals
or firewall that happens say every 3-5 seconds. In the beginning I
noticed
this problem only after climbing out and leveling off or when doing
a low
pass, climbing out, and then leveling off. I may of noticed it more
pronounced on a heavy, rainy kind of day also.
Mike Betti
771E

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Harper" <rjwh@optusnet.com.au>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?
anyway
(making
throttle
heat -
it
stops
try)
found
loads &
.....
now &
problem :(
problem
can
It's
feet
electrical like
mags. Not
flared
off
the
bird...
but
200
rpm
it
there
am
leaning
out
coils
that
not sure
around 10
I pull
couple
away. If I
consistent
either
and
they
flight and
position.
I get
K&N, I
it
odd to


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michael betti

[rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Post by michael betti » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:12 pm

4300
Althought the mags are in an unfriendly location, I may pull them and
start from step 1.
Thanks,
Mike

----Original Message----
From: rwampach@comcast.net
Date: 06/21/2007 11:16
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subj: RE: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Which model? If 4000 series throw them away, 4100, 4200, 4300 series
check for cross-firing internally with a high tension harness tester.
I
once condemned 4 of them on a new Cessna twin (the 303) for that same
problem at its first 100 hour inspection. The critics said not
possible, but Slick agreed and paid the warranty claim in full. These
days I only recommend Bendix even though they have a 500 hr AD on the
impulse coupling, it's worth it to have reliable ignition. At the
very
minimumn do the 100 hour inspection on Slicks often--point gap, carbon
tracks in the distributor etc.

Dick Wampach A/P, I/A SR-108.



-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Mike Betti
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 4:11 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

2 Slick mags

----- Original Message -----
From: "steve whitenect" <srwhitenect@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Mike
Are you running two mags or electronic ingition?

Steve

From: michael betti <mbetti@hughes.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 13:07:12 +0000 (UTC)

That's the weird part. I try leaning when the engine is doing this
and
nothing changes, other than it runs a little rougher because of
being
lean. This problem I am having is pretty insignificant. You can
cruise
all day long with it doing this and most people probably wouldn't
notice, but it is there. Just a slight jerk in the engine like the
ignition was interrupted for a split second.
Mike

----Original Message----
From: beep@sympatico.ca
Date: 06/19/2007 21:42
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subj: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Hi Mike !

Hmmmm ... You have the opposite of the problem I had !
Mine
started
missing above 8,000 ft ...

If it goes away with altitude, your mixture might be just a
bit
rich -
have you tried leaning a bit when it's rough ?? Lean until you
get
an rpm drop, then push in just enough to get back to peak, plus
enough so it just starts to drop again....

Being a bit rich would explain why Rick's suggestion of carb
heat wouldn't help ... it might make it worse....

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 19 June 2007 21:47, Mike Betti wrote:
Update on problem. I flew it tonight and noticed that the problem
goes away
above 5000' msl. I can't say for sure about this but it makes
sense
so far.
I need to test another night to see if there is a pattern. So
what
does it
mean. The problem is from about 2400 to 2600. Full throttle ok
and
anything
less than that ok. Engine just gives a little jerk you feel in
the
pedals
or firewall that happens say every 3-5 seconds. In the beginning
I
noticed
this problem only after climbing out and leveling off or when
doing
a low
pass, climbing out, and then leveling off. I may of noticed it
more
pronounced on a heavy, rainy kind of day also.
Mike Betti
771E

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Harper" <rjwh@optusnet.com.au>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?
for
anyway
235
(making
throttle
heat -
it
stops
try)
we
found
loads &
.....
now &
problem :(
my
problem
can
while.
It's
my
feet
electrical like
mags. Not
lines
flared
off
the
bird...
but
other
200
rpm
it
there
am
leaning
found
out
coils
that
not sure
around 10
altitude
I pull
every
couple
away. If I
consistent
it
either
and
they
flight and
position.
I get
is
K&N, I
it
odd to


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michael betti

[rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Post by michael betti » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:12 pm

Is there much difference in the dynamic balance method used? I heard of
one with some lights and another way with ?? I forgot.
Mike

----Original Message----
From: beep@sympatico.ca
Date: 06/21/2007 11:08
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subj: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

We were getting exactly the same speeds with John's Elite,
or maybe a bit faster - same prop & engine. Smooth running
all the way across the country, mostly at 2,550. If you get
vibration
at higher RPM, it might be worth finding a shop that can do
a dynamic prop balance - usually about $100 .... Done on
the airplane, running, so it takes care of all weight issues.

Vibration could cause frothing in the carb that would
give a little miss.....

Still might be worth a run without the air filter, to
see if that has any effect. Apparently several Elites have
used the O-320 metal air box, and it's just too small !
This causes the engine to shake enough to wear out the
bushings on the carb air shafts in 100 hours or so ....
I know you have the larger Van's fiberglass airbox,
but maybe there's a flow problem. At least one of
these had the emergency air flapper - held by magnet
& spring - being sucked open at higher power settings,
causing a lack of carb heat effectiveness, and possibly
other running issues ....

Another thought might be to check the gap on the
mag points - maybe a bit wider would help .... Might
mean adjusting the timing a bit, for a bit more advance ...

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Thursday 21 June 2007 10:03, michael betti wrote:
First of all this miss I talk about is not a vibration. When you
loose
a plug the engine misses and vibrates, nothing like that. My prop is
76X58. From a pilots standpoint, the engine is smooth as glass up to
2400! It has noticeable vibration at any rpm above that, although
the
amount of vibration seems acceptable, it is noticable. This is the
opposite of your experence for some reason. I tried cruising at 2550
the other night and the engine still has that so called miss, and
there
is more vibration in the cabin, and I am running about 135 mph. My
take
off rpm is 2500. I can easily red line my engine in straight and
level
flight at full throttle too.
Mike

----Original Message----
From: beep@sympatico.ca
Date: 06/20/2007 22:05
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subj: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Hi Mike !

Steve's on the right track ! The Elite we flew back from
BC to Ottawa had an O-360 and a 76 x 58" prop - just like
yours .... It definitely was not smooth below 2,500 rpm.
ALL O-360's I have flown like to run fast - they are happiest
at 2,550 - 2,650 rpm for cruise. It's the design of the engine.

I would NOT run at 2,400 with an O-360 - especially
if there is a noticeable vibration. Just a matter of time
until something breaks !

Steve is on the right track - manifold pressure increases
with pitch --- it's like driving your car up a steep hill in
high gear ! The engine is working hard, and the load
most likely is causing the shake .... and it's in the known
harmonic rpm range for O-360's ...

Try climbing to a decent altitude, set up for cruise
at 2,400+, then push to get a steady 200 - 300+ fpm descent.
this will unload the prop, and the rpm should increase,
maybe past 2,500 ---- and the shake might be gone ! If it is,
then you know for sure it's best to cruise at 2,500++.
Unloading the prop should lower manifold pressure
a bit ....


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michael betti

[rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Post by michael betti » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:12 pm

I bought a 1998 engine core, 120snew, bent crank. Replaced crank and 0
timed the rest.
Mike

----Original Message----
From: srwhitenect@hotmail.com
Date: 06/21/2007 10:46
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subj: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Mike
Is your engine New or "experimental" overhaul?

Steve

From: michael betti <mbetti@hughes.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 14:03:11 +0000 (UTC)

First of all this miss I talk about is not a vibration. When you
loose
a plug the engine misses and vibrates, nothing like that. My prop is
76X58. From a pilots standpoint, the engine is smooth as glass up to
2400! It has noticeable vibration at any rpm above that, although the
amount of vibration seems acceptable, it is noticable. This is the
opposite of your experence for some reason. I tried cruising at 2550
the other night and the engine still has that so called miss, and
there
is more vibration in the cabin, and I am running about 135 mph. My
take
off rpm is 2500. I can easily red line my engine in straight and
level
flight at full throttle too.
Mike

----Original Message----
From: beep@sympatico.ca
Date: 06/20/2007 22:05
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subj: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Hi Mike !

Steve's on the right track ! The Elite we flew back from
BC to Ottawa had an O-360 and a 76 x 58" prop - just like
yours .... It definitely was not smooth below 2,500 rpm.
ALL O-360's I have flown like to run fast - they are happiest
at 2,550 - 2,650 rpm for cruise. It's the design of the engine.

I would NOT run at 2,400 with an O-360 - especially
if there is a noticeable vibration. Just a matter of time
until something breaks !

Steve is on the right track - manifold pressure increases
with pitch --- it's like driving your car up a steep hill in
high gear ! The engine is working hard, and the load
most likely is causing the shake .... and it's in the known
harmonic rpm range for O-360's ...

Try climbing to a decent altitude, set up for cruise
at 2,400+, then push to get a steady 200 - 300+ fpm descent.
this will unload the prop, and the rpm should increase,
maybe past 2,500 ---- and the shake might be gone ! If it is,
then you know for sure it's best to cruise at 2,500++.
Unloading the prop should lower manifold pressure
a bit ....

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Wednesday 20 June 2007 19:56, Mike Betti wrote:
58" fixed pitch prop and I don't monitor manifold pressure. Isn't
it
just
vacuum on a natural aspirated engine?
Mike


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Richard Wampach

[rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Post by Richard Wampach » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:12 pm

Problems Running over square is a myth! Use any power setting that the
engine maker or airframe maker, (that the engine came from), allowed and
no harm should come providing your baffles are tight and proper cooling
is being achieved.

Dick


-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
steve whitenect
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 7:25 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

I don't know what the engine would behave like running continuously over

"square" if there was too much pitch. What is your static rpm and rpm
when
on the roll. I'm running a 45" pitch with a 150 hp and need a bit more
pitch- mabe 47". I know that 56-58 inch would give me way too high
numbers
on the manifold pressure which will eventually lead to overheating etc.

Steve

From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@hughes.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 18:56:51 -0500

58" fixed pitch prop and I don't monitor manifold pressure. Isn't it
just
vacuum on a natural aspirated engine?
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "steve whitenect" <srwhitenect@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Mike
What is your manifold pressure with that 56" prop?

Steve

From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@hughes.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 18:11:08 -0500

2 Slick mags

----- Original Message -----
From: "steve whitenect" <srwhitenect@hotmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

this
and
being
cruise
the
Mine
bit
get
problem
sense
what
and
the
beginning I
doing
more
for
0-235
certain
carby
if
it
a
try)
.....
we
certain
regularly
every
is my
area. I
while.
through
my
both
lines
line
off
other
a
200
running
it
and I
am
when
found
coils
[/quote]I'm
[/quote]somewhere
altitude
every
[/quote]goes
[/quote]notice it
[/quote]plugs
and
position.
[/quote]filter is
[/quote]find
it
_________________________________________________________________
Fight Allergies With Live Search
[/quote]t=en-ca&FORM=SERNEP


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ERNEP



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Bob Patterson

[rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Post by Bob Patterson » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:12 pm

Sorry - I don't know ! Our local maintenance shop only
has the one machine --- no lights, that I recall ...

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Thursday 21 June 2007 12:33, michael betti wrote:
Is there much difference in the dynamic balance method used? I heard of
one with some lights and another way with ?? I forgot.
Mike

----Original Message----
From: beep@sympatico.ca
Date: 06/21/2007 11:08
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subj: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

We were getting exactly the same speeds with John's Elite,
or maybe a bit faster - same prop & engine. Smooth running
all the way across the country, mostly at 2,550. If you get
vibration
at higher RPM, it might be worth finding a shop that can do
a dynamic prop balance - usually about $100 .... Done on
the airplane, running, so it takes care of all weight issues.

Vibration could cause frothing in the carb that would
give a little miss.....

Still might be worth a run without the air filter, to
see if that has any effect. Apparently several Elites have
used the O-320 metal air box, and it's just too small !
This causes the engine to shake enough to wear out the
bushings on the carb air shafts in 100 hours or so ....
I know you have the larger Van's fiberglass airbox,
but maybe there's a flow problem. At least one of
these had the emergency air flapper - held by magnet
& spring - being sucked open at higher power settings,
causing a lack of carb heat effectiveness, and possibly
other running issues ....

Another thought might be to check the gap on the
mag points - maybe a bit wider would help .... Might
mean adjusting the timing a bit, for a bit more advance ...


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Walter Klatt

[rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Post by Walter Klatt » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:12 pm

Mike, not suggesting this is your problem, but I have copied and pasted a
msg from the Lycoming yahoo group. There is a fellow there from Mattituck,
that is really good at solving weird Lycoming problems. I guess he has seen
it all, sort of like Wayne with the Rebel. His name is Russel Mahlon, and I
have met him at Arlington before, and he definitely impressed me. You might
wish to join the Lycoming list, and ask him. Have included the link to that
as well.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lycoming

Walter

****************************************************************************

Re: Another fuel question


Do you have a /N 10-3878 carburetor? Don't know what is approved for
your STC but sounds like you might need a 10-4164-1 or a 10-3878M or
a 10-5193 instead.
Good Luck,
Mahlon
"The opinions and information provided in this and all of my posts
are hopefully helpful to you. Please use the information provided
responsibly and at your own risk."


--- In lycoming@yahoogroups.com, ginny wilken <gwilken@...> wrote:
My new O-360 has that big shoebox of a carb, an MA5. I am breaking
in
the engine, and so obliged to run rich to keep things cool.
However,
I'm wondering if there's such a thing as too much fuel: I
experience
an occasional stumbling at certain, but different, RPMs, usually
when
I am pulling RPMs back without changing the mixture, which is
already
a lot richer than I would normally be running. The stumbling is
persistent, doesn't show up on the engine monitor, and can be
fixed
by leaning - except that I can't lean much because the CHTs are
still
high. Another clue is that it exhibits a sort of "hot start"
phenomenon, not what you'd expect from a carbureted engine: any
engine warm start will not catch right away, but will immediately
fire when the mixture is pulled out.

I have ten hours on the engine presently. This is a Skyhawk, so no
fuel pumps. I'm wondering if there is a float bowl issue, or some
other adjustment I can try making. It runs fine at full throttle,
and
there is no sign of overflow or fuel leakage around the carb.
There
is a three-cylinder priming system which works fine on cold
starts,
with mixture full rich. I expect to refine the leaning procedure
greatly as the cylinders break in, as I used to run my O-320
extremely lean, with good numbers all around.


Thanks for your thoughts,

ginny
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
michael betti
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 7:03 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?


First of all this miss I talk about is not a vibration. When you loose
a plug the engine misses and vibrates, nothing like that. My prop is
76X58. From a pilots standpoint, the engine is smooth as glass up to
2400! It has noticeable vibration at any rpm above that, although the
amount of vibration seems acceptable, it is noticable. This is the
opposite of your experence for some reason. I tried cruising at 2550
the other night and the engine still has that so called miss, and there
is more vibration in the cabin, and I am running about 135 mph. My take
off rpm is 2500. I can easily red line my engine in straight and level
flight at full throttle too.
Mike

----Original Message----
From: beep@sympatico.ca
Date: 06/20/2007 22:05
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subj: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Hi Mike !

Steve's on the right track ! The Elite we flew back from
BC to Ottawa had an O-360 and a 76 x 58" prop - just like
yours .... It definitely was not smooth below 2,500 rpm.
ALL O-360's I have flown like to run fast - they are happiest
at 2,550 - 2,650 rpm for cruise. It's the design of the engine.

I would NOT run at 2,400 with an O-360 - especially
if there is a noticeable vibration. Just a matter of time
until something breaks !

Steve is on the right track - manifold pressure increases
with pitch --- it's like driving your car up a steep hill in
high gear ! The engine is working hard, and the load
most likely is causing the shake .... and it's in the known
harmonic rpm range for O-360's ...

Try climbing to a decent altitude, set up for cruise
at 2,400+, then push to get a steady 200 - 300+ fpm descent.
this will unload the prop, and the rpm should increase,
maybe past 2,500 ---- and the shake might be gone ! If it is,
then you know for sure it's best to cruise at 2,500++.
Unloading the prop should lower manifold pressure
a bit ....

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Wednesday 20 June 2007 19:56, Mike Betti wrote:
58" fixed pitch prop and I don't monitor manifold pressure. Isn't it
just
vacuum on a natural aspirated engine?
Mike


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Mike Betti

[rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Post by Mike Betti » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:12 pm

Thanks, I'm on my way over there.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 10:59 AM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Mike, not suggesting this is your problem, but I have copied and pasted a
msg from the Lycoming yahoo group. There is a fellow there from Mattituck,
that is really good at solving weird Lycoming problems. I guess he has
seen
it all, sort of like Wayne with the Rebel. His name is Russel Mahlon, and
I
have met him at Arlington before, and he definitely impressed me. You
might
wish to join the Lycoming list, and ask him. Have included the link to
that
as well.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lycoming

Walter

****************************************************************************

Re: Another fuel question


Do you have a /N 10-3878 carburetor? Don't know what is approved for
your STC but sounds like you might need a 10-4164-1 or a 10-3878M or
a 10-5193 instead.
Good Luck,
Mahlon
"The opinions and information provided in this and all of my posts
are hopefully helpful to you. Please use the information provided
responsibly and at your own risk."


--- In lycoming@yahoogroups.com, ginny wilken <gwilken@...> wrote:
My new O-360 has that big shoebox of a carb, an MA5. I am breaking
in
the engine, and so obliged to run rich to keep things cool.
However,
I'm wondering if there's such a thing as too much fuel: I
experience
an occasional stumbling at certain, but different, RPMs, usually
when
I am pulling RPMs back without changing the mixture, which is
already
a lot richer than I would normally be running. The stumbling is
persistent, doesn't show up on the engine monitor, and can be
fixed
by leaning - except that I can't lean much because the CHTs are
still
high. Another clue is that it exhibits a sort of "hot start"
phenomenon, not what you'd expect from a carbureted engine: any
engine warm start will not catch right away, but will immediately
fire when the mixture is pulled out.

I have ten hours on the engine presently. This is a Skyhawk, so no
fuel pumps. I'm wondering if there is a float bowl issue, or some
other adjustment I can try making. It runs fine at full throttle,
and
there is no sign of overflow or fuel leakage around the carb.
There
is a three-cylinder priming system which works fine on cold
starts,
with mixture full rich. I expect to refine the leaning procedure
greatly as the cylinders break in, as I used to run my O-320
extremely lean, with good numbers all around.


Thanks for your thoughts,

ginny
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
michael betti
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 7:03 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?


First of all this miss I talk about is not a vibration. When you loose
a plug the engine misses and vibrates, nothing like that. My prop is
76X58. From a pilots standpoint, the engine is smooth as glass up to
2400! It has noticeable vibration at any rpm above that, although the
amount of vibration seems acceptable, it is noticable. This is the
opposite of your experence for some reason. I tried cruising at 2550
the other night and the engine still has that so called miss, and there
is more vibration in the cabin, and I am running about 135 mph. My take
off rpm is 2500. I can easily red line my engine in straight and level
flight at full throttle too.
Mike

----Original Message----
From: beep@sympatico.ca
Date: 06/20/2007 22:05
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subj: Re: [rebel-builders] Engine miss?

Hi Mike !

Steve's on the right track ! The Elite we flew back from
BC to Ottawa had an O-360 and a 76 x 58" prop - just like
yours .... It definitely was not smooth below 2,500 rpm.
ALL O-360's I have flown like to run fast - they are happiest
at 2,550 - 2,650 rpm for cruise. It's the design of the engine.

I would NOT run at 2,400 with an O-360 - especially
if there is a noticeable vibration. Just a matter of time
until something breaks !

Steve is on the right track - manifold pressure increases
with pitch --- it's like driving your car up a steep hill in
high gear ! The engine is working hard, and the load
most likely is causing the shake .... and it's in the known
harmonic rpm range for O-360's ...

Try climbing to a decent altitude, set up for cruise
at 2,400+, then push to get a steady 200 - 300+ fpm descent.
this will unload the prop, and the rpm should increase,
maybe past 2,500 ---- and the shake might be gone ! If it is,
then you know for sure it's best to cruise at 2,500++.
Unloading the prop should lower manifold pressure
a bit ....

--
......bobp
http://www.prosumers.ca
http://bpatterson.qhealthbeauty.com
http://apatterson2.qhealthzone.com

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Wednesday 20 June 2007 19:56, Mike Betti wrote:
58" fixed pitch prop and I don't monitor manifold pressure. Isn't it
just
vacuum on a natural aspirated engine?
Mike


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