tool kit from mam

[Walter Klatt]

Well, if you want a real cheap, ie zero cost, tool to
knock out mandrels, here's what I do. I just take an
old mandrel stem from a pulled rivet, snip it to about
1/2 inch long, and hold it in a vise grip wrench with
about 1/8 inch sticking out one end. Then simply stick
that in your rivet mandrel hole and tap the other end
with a hammer, and it's done.

The one problem I haven't figured out, though, is how
do you prevent unwanted dimpling of skin on the head
side when the mandrel is in real tight with epoxy and
you can't get at the backside of the rivet to support
it.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 3:56 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: tool kit from mam


Guess we didn't offer enough detail... I
just supposed that everyone knew we
only intended our list of tools to be used
to knock out the mandrel, then
drill the head of and remove the rest of the
rivet as you described below.
But you've certainly covered it beyond question now.

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Chamberlin" <cham@quicklinks.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 2:46 PM
Subject: RE: tool kit from mam

Ok.....hate to say it but I haven't read

one good answer yet...but then

again I guess it all boils down to

whatever works for you.

First off...and words cannot impress upon

you, that whenever a rivet is to

be removed that the utmost diligence must

be taken so that the existing
hole

is not deteriorated or "oversized".

All of the above mentioned methods lead me

to believe that the hole will
be

deformed unless you get lucky. The

prescribed method ( and one that I
have

used for 25plus years) is to use the same

sized drill as was used to

originally install the rivet. In this case

...a #30.....and if you are

worried. then a spring drill stop set to

just below rivet head

depth.....will work. In the case of Avex

Rivets as well as Cherry- Max (

which are unbelievably hard on Cobalt

drills) it also help to use an

automatic centre punch on the stem just to

make sure it is "Knocked Out"
to

just below skin depth. the proceed to

drill in the centre until the
"Head"

of the rivet pops off. You should be left

with a rivet donut on your drill

bit.

As far as the remaining shank of the

rivet...it can be easily be removed

with either a pair of pliers or by using

the same automatic centre punch
as

you used to knock the stem down.

If the material ( I.e.: skin) is deformed

at all, ( as in sorta looks like

it has been dimpled) you can use a plastic

hammer on a good solid surface
to

hammer it flat and back into the round

hole shape....in the case of a

dimpled skin it is better to hammer the

round hole back first and then

re-dimple it...making sure that the hole

is not oversize first.

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com

[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of

Terry Dazey
Sent: September 25, 2003 3:08 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: tool kit from mam


Rebelers:

Wanna go one better? Take a concrete nail

(the shank is not quite 3/16
inch)

and grind 3/8 to 1/2 inch from the tip so

it looks like a small drift pin

punch (3/32?? constant diameter tip). Make

one for the 3/16 inch rivets
too.

Light, small and cheap. About .02 cents U.S.

Chuck Bailey gave me one FREE! Now, that's cheap.

Have fun building.

Terry Dazey
Rebel 662
Sumner, Washington U.S.A.

I followed Mike Kimball's example and

just got a small awl... put the

point

into the rivet and give it a tap with a

hammer, and out comes the
mandrel.

I think I paid about $3 for the one I got.

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[Paul Chamberlin]

Ok.....hate to say it but I haven't read one good answer yet...but then
again I guess it all boils down to whatever works for you.
First off...and words cannot impress upon you, that whenever a rivet is to
be removed that the utmost diligence must be taken so that the existing hole
is not deteriorated or "oversized".

All of the above mentioned methods lead me to believe that the hole will be
deformed unless you get lucky. The prescribed method ( and one that I have
used for 25plus years) is to use the same sized drill as was used to
originally install the rivet. In this case ...a #30.....and if you are
worried. then a spring drill stop set to just below rivet head
depth.....will work. In the case of Avex Rivets as well as Cherry- Max (
which are unbelievably hard on Cobalt drills) it also help to use an
automatic centre punch on the stem just to make sure it is "Knocked Out" to
just below skin depth. the proceed to drill in the centre until the "Head"
of the rivet pops off. You should be left with a rivet donut on your drill
bit.

As far as the remaining shank of the rivet...it can be easily be removed
with either a pair of pliers or by using the same automatic centre punch as
you used to knock the stem down.

If the material ( I.e.: skin) is deformed at all, ( as in sorta looks like
it has been dimpled) you can use a plastic hammer on a good solid surface to
hammer it flat and back into the round hole shape....in the case of a
dimpled skin it is better to hammer the round hole back first and then
re-dimple it...making sure that the hole is not oversize first.


Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Terry Dazey
Sent: September 25, 2003 3:08 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: tool kit from mam


Rebelers:

Wanna go one better? Take a concrete nail (the shank is not quite 3/16 inch)
and grind 3/8 to 1/2 inch from the tip so it looks like a small drift pin
punch (3/32?? constant diameter tip). Make one for the 3/16 inch rivets too.
Light, small and cheap. About .02 cents U.S.

Chuck Bailey gave me one FREE! Now, that's cheap.

Have fun building.

Terry Dazey
Rebel 662
Sumner, Washington U.S.A.

I followed Mike Kimball's example and just got a small awl... put the

point

into the rivet and give it a tap with a hammer, and out comes the mandrel.
I think I paid about $3 for the one I got.

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[Paul Chamberlin]

sorry to add this part but we always used to judge good "metal bashers" by
not so much how they could put something together but as to how they could
take something apart and then rework it back to origianl specs!



Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Terry Dazey
Sent: September 25, 2003 3:08 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: tool kit from mam


Rebelers:

Wanna go one better? Take a concrete nail (the shank is not quite 3/16 inch)
and grind 3/8 to 1/2 inch from the tip so it looks like a small drift pin
punch (3/32?? constant diameter tip). Make one for the 3/16 inch rivets too.
Light, small and cheap. About .02 cents U.S.

Chuck Bailey gave me one FREE! Now, that's cheap.

Have fun building.

Terry Dazey
Rebel 662
Sumner, Washington U.S.A.

I followed Mike Kimball's example and just got a small awl... put the

point

into the rivet and give it a tap with a hammer, and out comes the mandrel.
I think I paid about $3 for the one I got.

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[Drew Dalgleish]

The one problem I haven't figured out, though, is how
do you prevent unwanted dimpling of skin on the head
side when the mandrel is in real tight with epoxy and
you can't get at the backside of the rivet to support
it.

Walter

Hi Walter
The way I get those rivets out is to drill the head til I hit the top of
the mandrel then I use a wood chisel to cut the top of whats left of the
head off. Then I can pound out the shank as described by Paul.
Drew Dalgleish




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[Walter Klatt]

Yes, that's basically what I have been doing. If the
mandrel doesn't go easily, drill off the head. Usually,
it softens things up enough then, so that a little tap
after that causes the whole thing to go.

Certainly beats the old days before I learned to knock
out the mandrel first. There was many a hole I screwed
up, and had to go to the next rivet size up.

Thanks Drew. I'm always looking for a better way if
there is one.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Drew Dalgleish
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 7:31 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: tool kit from mam

The one problem I haven't figured out,

though, is how

do you prevent unwanted dimpling of skin on the head
side when the mandrel is in real tight with

epoxy and

you can't get at the backside of the rivet

to support

it.

Walter

Hi Walter
The way I get those rivets out is to drill
the head til I hit the top of
the mandrel then I use a wood chisel to cut
the top of whats left of the
head off. Then I can pound out the shank as
described by Paul.
Drew Dalgleish




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