Weight and Balance

Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:40 am

Interesting...attachments on the list.... handy for this... but thought that
feature was turned off Mike.
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rickhm at home" <rickhm@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 9:27 AM
Subject: RE: Weight and Balance

All,

Attached is the spreadsheet that I evolved from what Scott gave me. I
don't have the engine hung or wings on, so there is some work to be done
yet! NOTE: This is slightly different than what Murphy sends out. The CG
range is measured from a different reference point. See below for

details.

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Boardman [SMTP:dboardm3@twcny.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 9:27 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Weight and Balance

Hi Scott,

I wouldn't mind having a copy.

Thanks, Don B.
DBoardm3@twcny.rr.com

From: Rickhm at home <rickhm@comcast.net>
Reply-To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 21:03:08 -0700
To: "'rebel-builders@dcsol.com'" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: RE: Weight and Balance

Many thanks..... I was about to generate it from scratch! THX

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Aldrich [SMTP:sa@mwutah.com]
Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 2:41 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Weight and Balance

Rick, not sure which sheet was out there but I just sent you a copy of
the
one the Shotwell's made. It is custom for their empty wt and baggage
space
arms but easily changed.

Also note they used the main wheel as the zero datum instead of the wing
leading edge like Murphy. Hence their zero datum is 1.5 inches farther
forward and makes the CG range 1.5 inches farther back (10.5 to 21.9
compared to MAM's 9.0 to 20.4), which I am sure you know is the same
physical location. I only mention it as I remember someone saying there
was
two different min and max cg ranges published when they are really the
same
(15 to 34% MAC)just different datums.

Scott
Moose 174

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
rickhm@comcast.net
Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 1:50 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Weight and Balance

There was a spreadsheet for calculating weight and balance on a
SR2500/3500
before the archive was lost. ANyone out there have a copy?

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Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:40 am

Yeah, I'm looking into it right now... it was turned off in the list
configuration, but turned on in the storage conference configuration... this
is because originally I allowed attachments and I wanted to keep those in
the conference. As all the original attachments got stripped when we
rebuilt the databases, I've turned this off again. Still seems like having
the list configured not to allow should have stopped it.

For those who haven't been around long enough to remember, we had problems
in the past with folks just not knowing any better and posting very large
attachments to the list. Those members still using dial-up really didn't
appreciate it, so I decided to turn this feature off. If you have files to
share, please post them to the file libraries on the archive site.

Thanks, Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 5:37 AM
Subject: Re: Weight and Balance

Interesting...attachments on the list.... handy for this... but thought
that
feature was turned off Mike.
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rickhm at home" <rickhm@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 9:27 AM
Subject: RE: Weight and Balance

All,

Attached is the spreadsheet that I evolved from what Scott gave me. I
don't have the engine hung or wings on, so there is some work to be done
yet! NOTE: This is slightly different than what Murphy sends out. The
CG
range is measured from a different reference point. See below for
details.

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Boardman [SMTP:dboardm3@twcny.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 9:27 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Weight and Balance

Hi Scott,

I wouldn't mind having a copy.

Thanks, Don B.
DBoardm3@twcny.rr.com

From: Rickhm at home <rickhm@comcast.net>
Reply-To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 21:03:08 -0700
To: "'rebel-builders@dcsol.com'" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: RE: Weight and Balance

Many thanks..... I was about to generate it from scratch! THX

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Aldrich [SMTP:sa@mwutah.com]
Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 2:41 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Weight and Balance

Rick, not sure which sheet was out there but I just sent you a copy of
the
one the Shotwell's made. It is custom for their empty wt and baggage
space
arms but easily changed.

Also note they used the main wheel as the zero datum instead of the
wing
leading edge like Murphy. Hence their zero datum is 1.5 inches farther
forward and makes the CG range 1.5 inches farther back (10.5 to 21.9
compared to MAM's 9.0 to 20.4), which I am sure you know is the same
physical location. I only mention it as I remember someone saying
there
was
two different min and max cg ranges published when they are really the
same
(15 to 34% MAC)just different datums.

Scott
Moose 174

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
rickhm@comcast.net
Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 1:50 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Weight and Balance

There was a spreadsheet for calculating weight and balance on a
SR2500/3500
before the archive was lost. ANyone out there have a copy?

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Scott Aldrich · Post by **Scott Aldrich** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:40 am

Rick, I couldn't open the .dat file that was attached to the list to see
what changes you made.

I also made a few changes to the one I sent you. I added a graph and the
automatic in and out of limit boxes. I will upload this sample to the
archives. Obviously (I hope) it needs to be changed to reflect each
airplanes actual empty weight, arm and moment and datum. If anyone needs
help making changes to fit their aircraft let me know as it would only take
a few minutes.

This one has custom arms for the optional rear jump seats and custom baggage
arms. You can leave those blank or remove the line altogether. Also, guys
with extended baggage compartments will need to add that.

Of course 90% will never use it after their initial certification and test
flights..

If you don't have a spread sheet program, I believe free spread sheet
readers are available and I know there are a couple of free office programs
that are compatible with MS Excel, Word, etc. Just do a Google search or
try openoffice.org

Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Rickhm
at home
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 7:27 AM
To: 'rebel-builders@dcsol.com'
Subject: RE: Weight and Balance

All,

Attached is the spreadsheet that I evolved from what Scott gave me. I
don't have the engine hung or wings on, so there is some work to be done
yet! NOTE: This is slightly different than what Murphy sends out. The CG
range is measured from a different reference point. See below for details.

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Boardman [SMTP:dboardm3@twcny.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 9:27 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Weight and Balance

Hi Scott,

I wouldn't mind having a copy.

Thanks, Don B.
DBoardm3@twcny.rr.com

From: Rickhm at home <rickhm@comcast.net>
Reply-To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 21:03:08 -0700
To: "'rebel-builders@dcsol.com'" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: RE: Weight and Balance

Many thanks..... I was about to generate it from scratch! THX

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Aldrich [SMTP:sa@mwutah.com]
Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 2:41 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Weight and Balance

Rick, not sure which sheet was out there but I just sent you a copy of

the

one the Shotwell's made. It is custom for their empty wt and baggage

space

arms but easily changed.

Also note they used the main wheel as the zero datum instead of the wing
leading edge like Murphy. Hence their zero datum is 1.5 inches farther
forward and makes the CG range 1.5 inches farther back (10.5 to 21.9
compared to MAM's 9.0 to 20.4), which I am sure you know is the same
physical location. I only mention it as I remember someone saying there

was

two different min and max cg ranges published when they are really the

same

(15 to 34% MAC)just different datums.

Scott
Moose 174

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
rickhm@comcast.net
Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 1:50 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Weight and Balance

There was a spreadsheet for calculating weight and balance on a

SR2500/3500

before the archive was lost. ANyone out there have a copy?

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Dick Shotwell · Post by **Dick Shotwell** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:20 am

I have a good Weight and Balance Worksheet for my Moose 096 POH. But it
lacks a couple of features. The certified drivers have, in their POH's,
two graphics that are handy. One is the "Weight and Balance Envelope"
and the other is the "Loading Graph". Nowhere can I find information on
how these graphics are developed. Cane anyone help?
Dick Shotwell
Moose 096
N235DS
Twin Falls, ID

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Legeorgen · Post by **Legeorgen** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:20 am

I built a Kitfox and MAM and neither had these graphics you see on certified
POH. I didn't like it at first because that is how I was taught to do W&B
from my instructors.

Having to work out my own W&B on my experimental gave me a better
understanding of the mechanics and now I picture the graph's as positions on the plane.
Much better I think. Now I don't like the graphs because I think it is to
easy to just plot a point on a piece of paper and it keep pilots form grasping
a better understanding of the balance thing.

When I started building I even had an instrument rating but didn't know to
much about the airplane, just how to fly it. That all changed a lot when I
started to build. For me it was like going back to college. I had a great
experience and it made me a much better pilot.

Bruce

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Scott Aldrich · Post by **Scott Aldrich** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:20 am

Dick I just sent you a modified version of the excel that you sent me, it
has an "envelope" graph below the worksheet (it still has your empty wt
numbers). I could probably make the loading graph also, but will be awhile.

There is someone on here that could probably make on in minutes but I think
he is tied up with other things right now.

Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Dick
Shotwell
Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 7:30 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Weight and Balance

I have a good Weight and Balance Worksheet for my Moose 096 POH. But it
lacks a couple of features. The certified drivers have, in their POH's,
two graphics that are handy. One is the "Weight and Balance Envelope"
and the other is the "Loading Graph". Nowhere can I find information on
how these graphics are developed. Cane anyone help?
Dick Shotwell
Moose 096
N235DS
Twin Falls, ID

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Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:20 am

I uploaded the Excel spreadsheet W&B that I did for my Quicksilver MX that
has a CG envelope graph into the "Software" file area. This could easily be
modified if anybody is interested. The graph points are set with the light
grey numbers just to the right of the graph itself.

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick Shotwell" <dicks@filertel.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 5:30 AM
Subject: Weight and Balance

I have a good Weight and Balance Worksheet for my Moose 096 POH. But it
lacks a couple of features. The certified drivers have, in their POH's,
two graphics that are handy. One is the "Weight and Balance Envelope"
and the other is the "Loading Graph". Nowhere can I find information on
how these graphics are developed. Cane anyone help?
Dick Shotwell
Moose 096
N235DS
Twin Falls, ID

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Garry Wright · Post by **Garry Wright** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:08 pm

If a person updates their weight and balance in Canada, is he obliged to
forward the information to TC or simply include it in the docs he
carries? If obliged to forward, how does one avoid a bureaucratic
boondoggle? Update is necessary because of minor changes only.

Garry
068R

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