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REBEL PROPS?

Converted from Wildcat! database. (read only)
Bob Patterson

REBEL PROPS?

Post by Bob Patterson » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:37 pm

Hi Ben !

You're on the right track ! I believe that Warp Drive
concluded that the culprit was 'higher compression' - since they
saw most failures on engines with compession ratios over 8 to 1.
The 160 hp Lycs have many more problems, at much lower hours -
and so did the high-compression Continentals.

I think they felt that the higher compression caused more
of a braking effect coming up on compression, and faster acceleration
after firing, both causing the blades to move slightly (or try to !).
This was mostly because of the light weight (and low intertia) of
the lighter W-D blades - so one solution was to add the extra
flywheel weight of the 'vibration dampers' to the flywheel.

Since the LOM has a very low compression ratio, it shouldn't
have a problem, so Scott doesn't likely have much to worry about.

I hope that new composite v-p prop from Australia (or NZ)
works out - it's a bit pricey, but might just be the answer.

.....bobp

-------------------------------orig.-----------------------------------
At 05:11 PM 12/10/02 -0900, you wrote:
-> "Knock on wood", my 70" three blade Warp Drive has survived for 7 years. =
-> 4 on a 100HP Lyco and 3 more in front of a 150 Hp Lyco. Still looks like =
-> brand new (or it would have been made into a wall ornament by now)!
-> Wayne

Do all Lyc 0-320s use the same amount of flywheel? And/or, might there be enf
pulse difference between the higher compression 160 HP 0-320s and the 150 HP 0-
320s to cause trouble or concern on the Warp hub?
-Ben Ransom





-> ----- Original Message -----=20
-> From: Walter Klatt=20
-> To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com=20
-> Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 8:32 PM
-> Subject: RE: REBEL PROPS?
->
->
-> Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but it is my understanding =
-> that there has never been an in-flight prop failure (as in throwing a =
-> blade) of a Warp Drive prop that is in stock configuration. I believe =
-> there have been some failures of Warp blades in other in-flight =
-> adjustable systems, but again not the stock Warp Drive propeller.
-> =20
-> I know a fellow locally who has the cracked collars on his Warp and he =
-> has put on over 300 hours since they first appeared and still believes =
-> it is safe. I check mine carefully with every pre-flight and since I =
-> don't have the cracks, I don't expect any sudden failure without ample =
-> warning.
-> =20
-> I am not defending or recommending the Warp Drive here, but just want =
-> to be sure my information is not outdated and I understand my own risks, =
-> since I still fly behind the prop.
-> =20
-> Walter
-> =20
-> =20
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of =
-> Legeorgen@aol.com
-> Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 12:27 PM
-> To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
-> Subject: Re: REBEL PROPS?
->
->
-> Scott,
->
-> You should know if you don't already, Warp Drive will not even sell =
-> you a prop
-> (anymore) if they know you're putting it on a Lycoming. I had a =
-> conversation with the owner of Warp Drive two summers ago at AirVenture, =
-> when I was researching buying one for my Rebel because I liked the =
-> performance of the Warp Drive I had on my 912 Kitfox, and he told me =
-> this personally.=20
->
-> Even the possibility of a remote in-flight blade failure is not an =
-> experience you want to have. So, you have to ask yourself the question. =
-> Regardless of the performance figures, Is it worth putting a Warp Drive =
-> on your Lycoming? My answer is, of course not!
->
-> Bruce 357R=20
->



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Legeorgen

REBEL PROPS?

Post by Legeorgen » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:37 pm

Bobp,

Two summers ago Warp Drive's position was no blades on a Lycoming with or without a vibration dampener. I have not talked to them since AirVenture 2001 and don't know if they have changed their position on this but I have heard nothing to the contrary.

Bruce 357R

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klehman

REBEL PROPS?

Post by klehman » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:37 pm

It may not be wise to tempt this too much after cracks in the aluminum
appear. While I've only heard of cracks in the aluminum sleeve discussed
here, I was surprised to see and feel evidence of a crack in the black
carbon fibre (underneath the peeled off aluminum sleeve) in a prop
removed from an 0-320. This was from a Rebel so the owner might choose
to add more details. That is about all I know about.
Ken

Walter Klatt wrote:
Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but it is my understanding that
there has never been an in-flight prop failure (as in throwing a blade)
of a Warp Drive prop that is in stock configuration. I believe there
have been some failures of Warp blades in other in-flight adjustable
systems, but again not the stock Warp Drive propeller.

I know a fellow locally who has the cracked collars on his Warp and he
has put on over 300 hours since they first appeared and still believes
it is safe. I check mine carefully with every pre-flight and since I
don't have the cracks, I don't expect any sudden failure without ample
warning.

I am not defending or recommending the Warp Drive here, but just want to
be sure my information is not outdated and I understand my own risks,
since I still fly behind the prop.

Walter



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Walter Klatt

REBEL PROPS?

Post by Walter Klatt » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:37 pm

Well, I did get my new prop mounted this weekend, but
was not able to test fly it due to the weather. Winds
were a little on the high side, so I passed on that.
Maybe next weekend.

I did some ground testing, though, and it turned 2530
static. This is a little higher than I expected, so
should have great climb and take off, but will probably
be a little slower in cruise. My Warp with it's current
pitch setting turned 2450 static, and would still red
line at straight and level.

It also vibrated and shook pretty good on the ground,
but will have to wait until I'm in the air to properly
evaluate that. My Warp was exceptionally smooth in the
air, but can't remember if it shook like that on the
ground, too. If it still vibrates in the air, I will
try that 180 degree switch that has been mentioned
before. Right now it is positioned so that on shut down
it stops with the #1 blade at 10 o'clock when looking
from the front.

My empty C of G is now at 9.7 and was 10.7 with the
Warp, so will see if that does anything noticeable.

Again, my new prop is a 74 X 54 Sensenich on a Rebel
amphib with an 0320 150 HP Lycoming.

Walter
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
klehman
Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 7:23 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: REBEL PROPS?


It may not be wise to tempt this too much
after cracks in the aluminum
appear. While I've only heard of cracks in
the aluminum sleeve discussed
here, I was surprised to see and feel
evidence of a crack in the black
carbon fibre (underneath the peeled off
aluminum sleeve) in a prop
removed from an 0-320. This was from a Rebel
so the owner might choose
to add more details. That is about all I know about.
Ken

Walter Klatt wrote:
Someone please correct me if I am wrong,
but it is my understanding that
there has never been an in-flight prop
failure (as in throwing a blade)
of a Warp Drive prop that is in stock
configuration. I believe there
have been some failures of Warp blades in
other in-flight adjustable
systems, but again not the stock Warp
Drive propeller.
I know a fellow locally who has the
cracked collars on his Warp and he
has put on over 300 hours since they first
appeared and still believes
it is safe. I check mine carefully with
every pre-flight and since I
don't have the cracks, I don't expect any
sudden failure without ample
warning.

I am not defending or recommending the
Warp Drive here, but just want to
be sure my information is not outdated and
I understand my own risks,
since I still fly behind the prop.

Walter

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Wayne G. O'Shea

REBEL PROPS?

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:37 pm

Walter, your empty C of G is now right there with Howard's at 9.7" His
flies like a dream with no elevator trim required, although I mounted his
stab at 0.6 or 0.7* (memories getting bad!!) and not the recommended 1.0*,
as I found I was always holding a bit of up elevator with mine even with the
O-235 in it.

Did you put that used prop through a shop for balance and pitch check?? That
could be your vibration and the static sounds a little high for a 54
(Howard's is a 52 and I don't <think> it spins that high).

If not, at least check your prop tracking before you fly it. Howard's first
prop was a "great deal" used McCauley that he picked up off a Cardinal and
with much arguement I made him take it to Hope Aero before I would mount it
to his zero'd engine. Even though it wasn't noticable sitting on the work
table it was almost a 3/8" out of true from blade to blade.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <walter.klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 8:47 PM
Subject: RE: REBEL PROPS?

Well, I did get my new prop mounted this weekend, but
was not able to test fly it due to the weather. Winds
were a little on the high side, so I passed on that.
Maybe next weekend.

I did some ground testing, though, and it turned 2530
static. This is a little higher than I expected, so
should have great climb and take off, but will probably
be a little slower in cruise. My Warp with it's current
pitch setting turned 2450 static, and would still red
line at straight and level.

It also vibrated and shook pretty good on the ground,
but will have to wait until I'm in the air to properly
evaluate that. My Warp was exceptionally smooth in the
air, but can't remember if it shook like that on the
ground, too. If it still vibrates in the air, I will
try that 180 degree switch that has been mentioned
before. Right now it is positioned so that on shut down
it stops with the #1 blade at 10 o'clock when looking
from the front.

My empty C of G is now at 9.7 and was 10.7 with the
Warp, so will see if that does anything noticeable.

Again, my new prop is a 74 X 54 Sensenich on a Rebel
amphib with an 0320 150 HP Lycoming.

Walter




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Walter Klatt

REBEL PROPS?

Post by Walter Klatt » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:37 pm

I was flying with my trim set to slightly up elevator
before, so probably will have to give it a bit more. I
still have my battery up front, but have a survival kit
buried in the back of the tail.

I bought my prop from a local prop shop, and it was
just freshly overhauled. He said it was perfectly
balanced 3 ways, not sure exactly what he meant by
that, though.

My tracking was out by 1/16, but thought that was close
enough.

Unlike my Warp, I am not able to balance it myself with
the spinner and bolt assembly all together. So it is
possible my spinner may be slightly off. When I cut the
holes for the propeller blades, I can't be sure that
one isn't slightly bigger than the other. However, I
did run it with and without the spinner, and didn't
notice a difference.

I'm hoping that in the air it will be smoother, as
there is a lot of wind buffeting on the ground runs.

Walter
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 7:06 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: REBEL PROPS?


Walter, your empty C of G is now right there
with Howard's at 9.7" His
flies like a dream with no elevator trim
required, although I mounted his
stab at 0.6 or 0.7* (memories getting bad!!)
and not the recommended 1.0*,
as I found I was always holding a bit of up
elevator with mine even with the
O-235 in it.

Did you put that used prop through a shop
for balance and pitch check?? That
could be your vibration and the static
sounds a little high for a 54
(Howard's is a 52 and I don't <think> it
spins that high).

If not, at least check your prop tracking
before you fly it. Howard's first
prop was a "great deal" used McCauley that
he picked up off a Cardinal and
with much arguement I made him take it to
Hope Aero before I would mount it
to his zero'd engine. Even though it wasn't
noticable sitting on the work
table it was almost a 3/8" out of true from
blade to blade.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <walter.klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 8:47 PM
Subject: RE: REBEL PROPS?

Well, I did get my new prop mounted this
weekend, but
was not able to test fly it due to the
weather. Winds
were a little on the high side, so I
passed on that.
Maybe next weekend.

I did some ground testing, though, and it
turned 2530
static. This is a little higher than I expected, so
should have great climb and take off, but
will probably
be a little slower in cruise. My Warp with
it's current
pitch setting turned 2450 static, and
would still red
line at straight and level.

It also vibrated and shook pretty good on
the ground,
but will have to wait until I'm in the air
to properly
evaluate that. My Warp was exceptionally
smooth in the
air, but can't remember if it shook like
that on the
ground, too. If it still vibrates in the
air, I will
try that 180 degree switch that has been mentioned
before. Right now it is positioned so that
on shut down
it stops with the #1 blade at 10 o'clock
when looking
from the front.

My empty C of G is now at 9.7 and was 10.7 with the
Warp, so will see if that does anything noticeable.

Again, my new prop is a 74 X 54 Sensenich
on a Rebel
amphib with an 0320 150 HP Lycoming.

Walter


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Wayne G. O'Shea

REBEL PROPS?

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:37 pm

I thought you were smart enough to not buy someones hanger junk! Your right
if you were running up to full bore holding the brakes I'm sure she bucked
like a wild horse and should be a lot smoother on climb out with some real
air load on it.

I'm like you and still have my battery on the firewall (Gill 25) and will
get around to moving it to the back someday.

Good luck,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <walter.klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 9:34 PM
Subject: RE: REBEL PROPS?

I was flying with my trim set to slightly up elevator
before, so probably will have to give it a bit more. I
still have my battery up front, but have a survival kit
buried in the back of the tail.

I bought my prop from a local prop shop, and it was
just freshly overhauled. He said it was perfectly
balanced 3 ways, not sure exactly what he meant by
that, though.

My tracking was out by 1/16, but thought that was close
enough.

Unlike my Warp, I am not able to balance it myself with
the spinner and bolt assembly all together. So it is
possible my spinner may be slightly off. When I cut the
holes for the propeller blades, I can't be sure that
one isn't slightly bigger than the other. However, I
did run it with and without the spinner, and didn't
notice a difference.

I'm hoping that in the air it will be smoother, as
there is a lot of wind buffeting on the ground runs.

Walter
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 7:06 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: REBEL PROPS?


Walter, your empty C of G is now right there
with Howard's at 9.7" His
flies like a dream with no elevator trim
required, although I mounted his
stab at 0.6 or 0.7* (memories getting bad!!)
and not the recommended 1.0*,
as I found I was always holding a bit of up
elevator with mine even with the
O-235 in it.

Did you put that used prop through a shop
for balance and pitch check?? That
could be your vibration and the static
sounds a little high for a 54
(Howard's is a 52 and I don't <think> it
spins that high).

If not, at least check your prop tracking
before you fly it. Howard's first
prop was a "great deal" used McCauley that
he picked up off a Cardinal and
with much arguement I made him take it to
Hope Aero before I would mount it
to his zero'd engine. Even though it wasn't
noticable sitting on the work
table it was almost a 3/8" out of true from
blade to blade.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <walter.klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 8:47 PM
Subject: RE: REBEL PROPS?

Well, I did get my new prop mounted this
weekend, but
was not able to test fly it due to the
weather. Winds
were a little on the high side, so I
passed on that.
Maybe next weekend.

I did some ground testing, though, and it
turned 2530
static. This is a little higher than I expected, so
should have great climb and take off, but
will probably
be a little slower in cruise. My Warp with
it's current
pitch setting turned 2450 static, and
would still red
line at straight and level.

It also vibrated and shook pretty good on
the ground,
but will have to wait until I'm in the air
to properly
evaluate that. My Warp was exceptionally
smooth in the
air, but can't remember if it shook like
that on the
ground, too. If it still vibrates in the
air, I will
try that 180 degree switch that has been mentioned
before. Right now it is positioned so that
on shut down
it stops with the #1 blade at 10 o'clock
when looking
from the front.

My empty C of G is now at 9.7 and was 10.7 with the
Warp, so will see if that does anything noticeable.

Again, my new prop is a 74 X 54 Sensenich
on a Rebel
amphib with an 0320 150 HP Lycoming.

Walter


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R. A. Hamson

REBEL PROPS?

Post by R. A. Hamson » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:37 pm

Walter, I just got my Sensenich (74x56) and plan to replace my Warp Drive with
it in the future. After some problems with the Warp early on, after I added a
harmonic dampener over a year ago, I have not had any cracks in the carbon
fiber. Will probably wait for spring to make the change as once I get my
tailcone repair completed, hopefully this weekend, I want to put Wayne's full
penetration wheel skis to the test. The tailcone repair using the FUS-84/FUS-88
combination and skin doublers wasn't as easy as I thought it would be as the
FUS-88 didn't have sufficient length for the tailskid bolt hole so I'm having
to have a new one machined.
My amphibs are complete and I've had the plane on them. Just the hydraulics to
hookup when the skis come off in the spring.
When I was out there in the fall I stopped in to see Gary Wiles and he was
getting ready to start his re-build job. His Christmas note said the job was
now underway.
Question for you, what was the net weight change going from the Warp to the
Sensenich?

Walter Klatt wrote:
Well, I did get my new prop mounted this weekend, but
was not able to test fly it due to the weather. Winds
were a little on the high side, so I passed on that.
Maybe next weekend.

I did some ground testing, though, and it turned 2530
static. This is a little higher than I expected, so
should have great climb and take off, but will probably
be a little slower in cruise. My Warp with it's current
pitch setting turned 2450 static, and would still red
line at straight and level.

It also vibrated and shook pretty good on the ground,
but will have to wait until I'm in the air to properly
evaluate that. My Warp was exceptionally smooth in the
air, but can't remember if it shook like that on the
ground, too. If it still vibrates in the air, I will
try that 180 degree switch that has been mentioned
before. Right now it is positioned so that on shut down
it stops with the #1 blade at 10 o'clock when looking
from the front.

My empty C of G is now at 9.7 and was 10.7 with the
Warp, so will see if that does anything noticeable.

Again, my new prop is a 74 X 54 Sensenich on a Rebel
amphib with an 0320 150 HP Lycoming.

Walter
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
klehman
Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 7:23 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: REBEL PROPS?


It may not be wise to tempt this too much
after cracks in the aluminum
appear. While I've only heard of cracks in
the aluminum sleeve discussed
here, I was surprised to see and feel
evidence of a crack in the black
carbon fibre (underneath the peeled off
aluminum sleeve) in a prop
removed from an 0-320. This was from a Rebel
so the owner might choose
to add more details. That is about all I know about.
Ken

Walter Klatt wrote:
Someone please correct me if I am wrong,
but it is my understanding that
there has never been an in-flight prop
failure (as in throwing a blade)
of a Warp Drive prop that is in stock
configuration. I believe there
have been some failures of Warp blades in
other in-flight adjustable
systems, but again not the stock Warp
Drive propeller.
I know a fellow locally who has the
cracked collars on his Warp and he
has put on over 300 hours since they first
appeared and still believes
it is safe. I check mine carefully with
every pre-flight and since I
don't have the cracks, I don't expect any
sudden failure without ample
warning.

I am not defending or recommending the
Warp Drive here, but just want to
be sure my information is not outdated and
I understand my own risks,
since I still fly behind the prop.

Walter

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Walter Klatt

REBEL PROPS?

Post by Walter Klatt » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:37 pm

Hey, Ron, good to hear from you. I still remember your
plane when you first got it flying out here in Langley.
Hope that Aeronca tail spring worked out for you. I put
in that bulkhead and engine mount piece on top of the
tailcone straps before I closed up the back a few years
ago, so don't expect that problem on mine.

As it happens, I saw your prop over at Julius' place
last month. He gave me a spinner construction lesson as
I watched him do yours. My spinner and prop combo is
identical to yours, except that mine is 74 X 54.

The net weight difference was 25 pounds for me. My
prop, though, might be slightly lighter than yours, as
it was just the under certified spec after its last
overhaul. However, I don't have the harmonic dampener.
I was using the fibreglass UHS spinner with my Warp.

If the weather cooperates, I plan to test fly mine on
Saturday.

Walter
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of R.
A. Hamson
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 4:40 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: REBEL PROPS?


Walter, I just got my Sensenich (74x56) and
plan to replace my Warp Drive with
it in the future. After some problems with
the Warp early on, after I added a
harmonic dampener over a year ago, I have
not had any cracks in the carbon
fiber. Will probably wait for spring to make
the change as once I get my
tailcone repair completed, hopefully this
weekend, I want to put Wayne's full
penetration wheel skis to the test. The
tailcone repair using the FUS-84/FUS-88
combination and skin doublers wasn't as easy
as I thought it would be as the
FUS-88 didn't have sufficient length for the
tailskid bolt hole so I'm having
to have a new one machined.
My amphibs are complete and I've had the
plane on them. Just the hydraulics to
hookup when the skis come off in the spring.
When I was out there in the fall I stopped
in to see Gary Wiles and he was
getting ready to start his re-build job. His
Christmas note said the job was
now underway.
Question for you, what was the net weight
change going from the Warp to the
Sensenich?

Walter Klatt wrote:
Well, I did get my new prop mounted this
weekend, but
was not able to test fly it due to the
weather. Winds
were a little on the high side, so I
passed on that.
Maybe next weekend.

I did some ground testing, though, and it
turned 2530
static. This is a little higher than I expected, so
should have great climb and take off, but
will probably
be a little slower in cruise. My Warp with
it's current
pitch setting turned 2450 static, and
would still red
line at straight and level.

It also vibrated and shook pretty good on
the ground,
but will have to wait until I'm in the air
to properly
evaluate that. My Warp was exceptionally
smooth in the
air, but can't remember if it shook like
that on the
ground, too. If it still vibrates in the
air, I will
try that 180 degree switch that has been mentioned
before. Right now it is positioned so that
on shut down
it stops with the #1 blade at 10 o'clock
when looking
from the front.

My empty C of G is now at 9.7 and was 10.7 with the
Warp, so will see if that does anything noticeable.

Again, my new prop is a 74 X 54 Sensenich
on a Rebel
amphib with an 0320 150 HP Lycoming.

Walter
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
klehman
Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 7:23 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: REBEL PROPS?


It may not be wise to tempt this too much
after cracks in the aluminum
appear. While I've only heard of cracks in
the aluminum sleeve discussed
here, I was surprised to see and feel
evidence of a crack in the black
carbon fibre (underneath the peeled off
aluminum sleeve) in a prop
removed from an 0-320. This was from a Rebel
so the owner might choose
to add more details. That is about all I
know about.
Ken

Walter Klatt wrote: but it is my understanding that failure (as in throwing a blade) configuration. I believe there other in-flight adjustable Drive propeller. cracked collars on his Warp and he appeared and still believes every pre-flight and since I sudden failure without ample Warp Drive here, but just want to I understand my own risks,
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Walter Klatt

REBEL PROPS?

Post by Walter Klatt » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:37 pm

I did my first test flight with the new prop today,
which is a 74 X 54 Sensenich on a 150 HP 0320 Rebel
amphib. I was solo, so don't have all the direct
comparisons yet to my previous Warp Drive installation.

Temperature today was +5 C.

Static today was 2500 RPM. Last weekend when I just did
the ground tests, it was 2530, but I can't explain the
difference. Maybe the atmospheric conditions were
different, but that is a bigger variance than I
expected. My Warp Drive static was 2450.

Climb was 1100 fpm at this weight at 80 mph and 2540
RPM. My Warp at this weight would climb at 1200 fpm at
2600 RPM. This was a surprise. I was expecting faster
climb because of the higher static RPM, but that wasn't
the case. Seems the Warp is able to spin higher at
climb for some reason despite the lower static.

Cruise is a little faster, though. Today I did 105 mph
at 2350 RPM with the Sensenich, while I had to spin
2450 on the Warp to get the same speed.

Top speed is also slightly faster with the Sensenich. I
did 125 mph today flat out straight and level, and the
RPM just reached 2700 red line, so at least the prop
seems to be well matched to my airplane. The Warp would
do about 122 mph at 2700, but had to back off the
throttle to keep from red lining.

Earlier in the year, I was running my Warp Drive with a
coarser pitch where static was 2350, cruise was 105 mph
at 2350 and top speed was 125 mph at 2650 RPM full
throttle.

I didn't notice any difference on take off, including
one on water as well.

Also, didn't notice any difference with the c of g
change. I did not have to adjust my elevator trim to
compensate for the extra 25 pounds on the nose.

There didn't seem to be any bad vibrations in flight.
It definitely felt different, including the sound, but
I think it is basically the same as with the Warp
Drive, ie. pretty smooth.

All in all, I'm satisfied with the new prop. I was
worried it might be too fine a pitch, but that is
definitely not the case, and my cruise was better than
expected.

I will be doing more testing with a passenger, so will
see how it does at higher gross weights.

Walter
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Walter Klatt
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 5:51 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: REBEL PROPS?


Hey, Ron, good to hear from you. I still
remember your
plane when you first got it flying out here
in Langley.
Hope that Aeronca tail spring worked out for
you. I put
in that bulkhead and engine mount piece on top of the
tailcone straps before I closed up the back
a few years
ago, so don't expect that problem on mine.

As it happens, I saw your prop over at Julius' place
last month. He gave me a spinner
construction lesson as
I watched him do yours. My spinner and prop combo is
identical to yours, except that mine is 74 X 54.

The net weight difference was 25 pounds for me. My
prop, though, might be slightly lighter than
yours, as
it was just the under certified spec after its last
overhaul. However, I don't have the harmonic
dampener.
I was using the fibreglass UHS spinner with my Warp.

If the weather cooperates, I plan to test fly mine on
Saturday.

Walter
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of R.
A. Hamson
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 4:40 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: REBEL PROPS?


Walter, I just got my Sensenich (74x56) and
plan to replace my Warp Drive with
it in the future. After some problems with
the Warp early on, after I added a
harmonic dampener over a year ago, I have
not had any cracks in the carbon
fiber. Will probably wait for spring to make
the change as once I get my
tailcone repair completed, hopefully this
weekend, I want to put Wayne's full
penetration wheel skis to the test. The
tailcone repair using the FUS-84/FUS-88
combination and skin doublers wasn't as easy
as I thought it would be as the
FUS-88 didn't have sufficient length for the
tailskid bolt hole so I'm having
to have a new one machined.
My amphibs are complete and I've had the
plane on them. Just the hydraulics to
hookup when the skis come off in the spring.
When I was out there in the fall I stopped
in to see Gary Wiles and he was
getting ready to start his re-build job. His
Christmas note said the job was
now underway.
Question for you, what was the net weight
change going from the Warp to the
Sensenich?

Walter Klatt wrote:
Well, I did get my new prop mounted this
weekend, but
was not able to test fly it due to the
weather. Winds
were a little on the high side, so I
passed on that.
Maybe next weekend.

I did some ground testing, though, and it
turned 2530
static. This is a little higher than I
expected, so
should have great climb and take off, but
will probably
be a little slower in cruise. My Warp with
it's current
pitch setting turned 2450 static, and
would still red
line at straight and level.

It also vibrated and shook pretty good on
the ground,
but will have to wait until I'm in the air
to properly
evaluate that. My Warp was exceptionally
smooth in the
air, but can't remember if it shook like
that on the
ground, too. If it still vibrates in the
air, I will
try that 180 degree switch that has been
mentioned
before. Right now it is positioned so that
on shut down
it stops with the #1 blade at 10 o'clock
when looking
from the front.

My empty C of G is now at 9.7 and was
10.7 with the
Warp, so will see if that does anything
noticeable.
Again, my new prop is a 74 X 54 Sensenich
on a Rebel
amphib with an 0320 150 HP Lycoming.

Walter
know about.
mike.davis@dcsol.com
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Legeorgen

REBEL PROPS?

Post by Legeorgen » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:37 pm

Hi Walter,

It sounds like, for all practical purposes, your Warp and Sensenich (76x54) are very close to the same performance. I believe it was Brian Cross that was disappointed with his Sensenich (76x56) numbers after flying behind a Warp. The 25 extra lb. is the price you pay for peace of mind. Keep us informed with more test as you go. I'm very interested in your findings.

I have a Sensenich 76x56 with a Lycoming 0320 150 HP too, and am happy with its performance but have not flown it with anything else to compare it to.

Bruce 357R

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Rick Harper

REBEL PROPS?

Post by Rick Harper » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:37 pm

G'day from "Down Under" Walter ! :-)

When you say "105 mph" .... do you mean ACTUALLY mph or Knots ?!?

1 knot = 1.15 mph ... therefore 100 knots = 115 mph)


Our Rebel (541R) with a tarted up 0-235 will do 120 knots FLAT OUT and cruise at 95 to 105 knots at around 2500 -2600 rpm (with a 74 X 52 repitched Sensenitch from an old 0-290 powered Cub)

Just curious !

Rick & Wendy Harper
From: Walter Klatt (walter.klatt@shaw.ca)
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 12:09 PM
Subject: RE: REBEL PROPS?


I did my first test flight with the new prop today,
which is a 74 X 54 Sensenich on a 150 HP 0320 Rebel
amphib. I was solo, so don't have all the direct
comparisons yet to my previous Warp Drive installation.

Temperature today was +5 C.

Static today was 2500 RPM. Last weekend when I just did
the ground tests, it was 2530, but I can't explain the
difference. Maybe the atmospheric conditions were
different, but that is a bigger variance than I
expected. My Warp Drive static was 2450.

Climb was 1100 fpm at this weight at 80 mph and 2540
RPM. My Warp at this weight would climb at 1200 fpm at
2600 RPM. This was a surprise. I was expecting faster
climb because of the higher static RPM, but that wasn't
the case. Seems the Warp is able to spin higher at
climb for some reason despite the lower static.

Cruise is a little faster, though. Today I did 105 mph
at 2350 RPM with the Sensenich, while I had to spin
2450 on the Warp to get the same speed.

Top speed is also slightly faster with the Sensenich. I
did 125 mph today flat out straight and level, and the
RPM just reached 2700 red line, so at least the prop
seems to be well matched to my airplane. The Warp would
do about 122 mph at 2700, but had to back off the
throttle to keep from red lining.

Earlier in the year, I was running my Warp Drive with a
coarser pitch where static was 2350, cruise was 105 mph
at 2350 and top speed was 125 mph at 2650 RPM full
throttle.

I didn't notice any difference on take off, including
one on water as well.

Also, didn't notice any difference with the c of g
change. I did not have to adjust my elevator trim to
compensate for the extra 25 pounds on the nose.

There didn't seem to be any bad vibrations in flight.
It definitely felt different, including the sound, but
I think it is basically the same as with the Warp
Drive, ie. pretty smooth.

All in all, I'm satisfied with the new prop. I was
worried it might be too fine a pitch, but that is
definitely not the case, and my cruise was better than
expected.

I will be doing more testing with a passenger, so will
see how it does at higher gross weights.

Walter
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com (mike.davis@dcsol.com)
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Walter Klatt
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 5:51 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Subject: RE: REBEL PROPS?


Hey, Ron, good to hear from you. I still
remember your
plane when you first got it flying out here
in Langley.
Hope that Aeronca tail spring worked out for
you. I put
in that bulkhead and engine mount piece on top of the
tailcone straps before I closed up the back
a few years
ago, so don't expect that problem on mine.

As it happens, I saw your prop over at Julius' place
last month. He gave me a spinner
construction lesson as
I watched him do yours. My spinner and prop combo is
identical to yours, except that mine is 74 X 54.

The net weight difference was 25 pounds for me. My
prop, though, might be slightly lighter than
yours, as
it was just the under certified spec after its last
overhaul. However, I don't have the harmonic
dampener.
I was using the fibreglass UHS spinner with my Warp.

If the weather cooperates, I plan to test fly mine on
Saturday.

Walter
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com (mike.davis@dcsol.com)
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of R.
A. Hamson
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 4:40 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Subject: Re: REBEL PROPS?


Walter, I just got my Sensenich (74x56) and
plan to replace my Warp Drive with
it in the future. After some problems with
the Warp early on, after I added a
harmonic dampener over a year ago, I have
not had any cracks in the carbon
fiber. Will probably wait for spring to make
the change as once I get my
tailcone repair completed, hopefully this
weekend, I want to put Wayne's full
penetration wheel skis to the test. The
tailcone repair using the FUS-84/FUS-88
combination and skin doublers wasn't as easy
as I thought it would be as the
FUS-88 didn't have sufficient length for the
tailskid bolt hole so I'm having
to have a new one machined.
My amphibs are complete and I've had the
plane on them. Just the hydraulics to
hookup when the skis come off in the spring.
When I was out there in the fall I stopped
in to see Gary Wiles and he was
getting ready to start his re-build job. His
Christmas note said the job was
now underway.
Question for you, what was the net weight
change going from the Warp to the
Sensenich?

Walter Klatt wrote:
weekend, but weather. Winds passed on that. turned 2530
expected, so
will probably it's current would still red the ground, to properly smooth in the that on the air, I will
mentioned
on shut down when looking
10.7 with the
noticeable.
on a Rebel know about. mike.davis@dcsol.com (mike.davis@dcsol.com)
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Drew Dalgleish

REBEL PROPS?

Post by Drew Dalgleish » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:37 pm

G'day Rick
I believe Walters talking mph. Floats tend to slow a plane down a bit.

Drew

t 06:33 PM 12/22/2002 +1100, you wrote:
G'day from "Down Under" Walter ! :-) When you say "105 mph" ....
do you mean ACTUALLY mph or Knots ?!? 1 knot = 1.15 mph ... therefore
100 knots = 115 mph) Our Rebel (541R) with a tarted up 0-235 will do
120 knots FLAT OUT and cruise at 95 to 105 knots at around 2500 -2600 rpm
(with a 74 X 52 repitched Sensenitch from an old 0-290 powered Cub) Just
curious ! & Wendy Harper From: Walter Klatt To:
murphy-rebel@dcsol.com Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 12:09 PM
Subject: RE: REBEL PROPS?
I did my first test flight with the new prop today,
which is a 74 X 54 Sensenich on a 150 HP 0320 Rebel
amphib. I was solo, so don't have all the direct
comparisons yet to my previous Warp Drive installation.

Temperature today was +5 C.

Static today was 2500 RPM. Last weekend when I just did
the ground tests, it was 2530, but I can't explain the
difference. Maybe the atmospheric conditions were
different, but that is a bigger variance than I
expected. My Warp Drive static was 2450.

Climb was 1100 fpm at this weight at 80 mph and 2540
RPM. My Warp at this weight would climb at 1200 fpm at
2600 RPM. This was a surprise. I was expecting faster
climb because of the higher static RPM, but that wasn't
the case. Seems the Warp is able to spin higher at
climb for some reason despite the lower static.

Cruise is a little faster, though. Today I did 105 mph
at 2350 RPM with the Sensenich, while I had to spin
2450 on the Warp to get the same speed.

Top speed is also slightly faster with the Sensenich. I
did 125 mph today flat out straight and level, and the
RPM just reached 2700 red line, so at least the prop
seems to be well matched to my airplane. The Warp would
do about 122 mph at 2700, but had to back off the
throttle to keep from red lining.

Earlier in the year, I was running my Warp Drive with a
coarser pitch where static was 2350, cruise was 105 mph
at 2350 and top speed was 125 mph at 2650 RPM full
throttle.

I didn't notice any difference on take off, including
one on water as well.

Also, didn't notice any difference with the c of g
change. I did not have to adjust my elevator trim to
compensate for the extra 25 pounds on the nose.

There didn't seem to be any bad vibrations in flight.
It definitely felt different, including the sound, but
I think it is basically the same as with the Warp
Drive, ie. pretty smooth.

All in all, I'm satisfied with the new prop. I was
worried it might be too fine a pitch, but that is
definitely not the case, and my cruise was better than
expected.

I will be doing more testing with a passenger, so will
see how it does at higher gross weights.

Walter
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Walter Klatt
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 5:51 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: REBEL PROPS?


Hey, Ron, good to hear from you. I still
remember your
plane when you first got it flying out here
in Langley.
Hope that Aeronca tail spring worked out for
you. I put
in that bulkhead and engine mount piece on top of the
tailcone straps before I closed up the back
a few years
ago, so don't expect that problem on mine.

As it happens, I saw your prop over at Julius' place
last month. He gave me a spinner
construction lesson as
I watched him do yours. My spinner and prop combo is
identical to yours, except that mine is 74 X 54.

The net weight difference was 25 pounds for me. My
prop, though, might be slightly lighter than
yours, as
it was just the under certified spec after its last
overhaul. However, I don't have the harmonic
dampener.
I was using the fibreglass UHS spinner with my Warp.

If the weather cooperates, I plan to test fly mine on
Saturday.

Walter
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of R.
A. Hamson
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 4:40 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: REBEL PROPS?


Walter, I just got my Sensenich (74x56) and
plan to replace my Warp Drive with
it in the future. After some problems with
the Warp early on, after I added a
harmonic dampener over a year ago, I have
not had any cracks in the carbon
fiber. Will probably wait for spring to make
the change as once I get my
tailcone repair completed, hopefully this
weekend, I want to put Wayne's full
penetration wheel skis to the test. The
tailcone repair using the FUS-84/FUS-88
combination and skin doublers wasn't as easy
as I thought it would be as the
FUS-88 didn't have sufficient length for the
tailskid bolt hole so I'm having
to have a new one machined.
My amphibs are complete and I've had the
plane on them. Just the hydraulics to
hookup when the skis come off in the spring.
When I was out there in the fall I stopped
in to see Gary Wiles and he was
getting ready to start his re-build job. His
Christmas note said the job was
now underway.
Question for you, what was the net weight
change going from the Warp to the
Sensenich?

Walter Klatt wrote:
weekend, but weather. Winds passed on that. turned 2530
expected, so
will probably it's current would still red the ground, to properly smooth in the that on the air, I will
mentioned
on shut down when looking
10.7 with the
noticeable.
on a Rebel know about. mike.davis@dcsol.com
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Walter Klatt

REBEL PROPS?

Post by Walter Klatt » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:37 pm

G'day Rick. Yes, I do mean MPH not Knots. It's the harsh Canadian climate, Rick, makes our planes go slower...; >)

These tests are done on MAM's 1800 amphibs. At 105 mph and 2350, that represents about 65 % power on my plane with the current prop. Back when I was on wheels I used to cruise at 120 mph at 2350 and 65 % power with the Warp. That was with the bungee gear.

Walter
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Rick Harper
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 11:34 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: REBEL PROPS?



G'day from "Down Under" Walter ! :-)

When you say "105 mph" .... do you mean ACTUALLY mph or Knots ?!?

1 knot = 1.15 mph ... therefore 100 knots = 115 mph)


Our Rebel (541R) with a tarted up 0-235 will do 120 knots FLAT OUT and cruise at 95 to 105 knots at around 2500 -2600 rpm (with a 74 X 52 repitched Sensenitch from an old 0-290 powered Cub)

Just curious !

Rick & Wendy Harper
From: Walter Klatt (walter.klatt@shaw.ca)
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 12:09 PM
Subject: RE: REBEL PROPS?


I did my first test flight with the new prop today,
which is a 74 X 54 Sensenich on a 150 HP 0320 Rebel
amphib. I was solo, so don't have all the direct
comparisons yet to my previous Warp Drive installation.

Temperature today was +5 C.

Static today was 2500 RPM. Last weekend when I just did
the ground tests, it was 2530, but I can't explain the
difference. Maybe the atmospheric conditions were
different, but that is a bigger variance than I
expected. My Warp Drive static was 2450.

Climb was 1100 fpm at this weight at 80 mph and 2540
RPM. My Warp at this weight would climb at 1200 fpm at
2600 RPM. This was a surprise. I was expecting faster
climb because of the higher static RPM, but that wasn't
the case. Seems the Warp is able to spin higher at
climb for some reason despite the lower static.

Cruise is a little faster, though. Today I did 105 mph
at 2350 RPM with the Sensenich, while I had to spin
2450 on the Warp to get the same speed.

Top speed is also slightly faster with the Sensenich. I
did 125 mph today flat out straight and level, and the
RPM just reached 2700 red line, so at least the prop
seems to be well matched to my airplane. The Warp would
do about 122 mph at 2700, but had to back off the
throttle to keep from red lining.

Earlier in the year, I was running my Warp Drive with a
coarser pitch where static was 2350, cruise was 105 mph
at 2350 and top speed was 125 mph at 2650 RPM full
throttle.

I didn't notice any difference on take off, including
one on water as well.

Also, didn't notice any difference with the c of g
change. I did not have to adjust my elevator trim to
compensate for the extra 25 pounds on the nose.

There didn't seem to be any bad vibrations in flight.
It definitely felt different, including the sound, but
I think it is basically the same as with the Warp
Drive, ie. pretty smooth.

All in all, I'm satisfied with the new prop. I was
worried it might be too fine a pitch, but that is
definitely not the case, and my cruise was better than
expected.

I will be doing more testing with a passenger, so will
see how it does at higher gross weights.

Walter
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com (mike.davis@dcsol.com)
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Walter Klatt
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 5:51 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Subject: RE: REBEL PROPS?


Hey, Ron, good to hear from you. I still
remember your
plane when you first got it flying out here
in Langley.
Hope that Aeronca tail spring worked out for
you. I put
in that bulkhead and engine mount piece on top of the
tailcone straps before I closed up the back
a few years
ago, so don't expect that problem on mine.

As it happens, I saw your prop over at Julius' place
last month. He gave me a spinner
construction lesson as
I watched him do yours. My spinner and prop combo is
identical to yours, except that mine is 74 X 54.

The net weight difference was 25 pounds for me. My
prop, though, might be slightly lighter than
yours, as
it was just the under certified spec after its last
overhaul. However, I don't have the harmonic
dampener.
I was using the fibreglass UHS spinner with my Warp.

If the weather cooperates, I plan to test fly mine on
Saturday.

Walter
expected, so mentioned 10.7 with the noticeable. http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/listserv.htm http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm mike.davis@dcsol.com (mike.davis@dcsol.com)
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Walter Klatt

REBEL PROPS?

Post by Walter Klatt » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:37 pm

Yeah, from what I've seen so far, I would give a slight edge to the Warp on efficiency and performance. The biggest advantage is that it is ground adjustable so you can change it for different situations. I did notice that fuel burn at 105 mph was the same at 7.5 gph with the new Sensenich, and the Warp at both 2350 and 2450 pitch settings. I have a fuel flow monitor.

I think the 74 X 54 is just about right for the 150 hp 0320 on amphibs if you want good top end, too. However, it looks like the 74 X 52 would work better for climb and and water take-offs. I would be interested to know the numbers at the top end on that one.

Sounds like your 74 X 56 is just about perfect on wheels for the 150 hp.

It's too bad that Warp has the cracking problem on the roots. It's obviously a great prop otherwise. Not sure why some crack, and others don't. I can understand Wayne's explanation with the shorter 70 " blades, but mine is a 72, and it didn't crack either.

Walter
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of legeorgen@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 8:10 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: REBEL PROPS?


Hi Walter,

It sounds like, for all practical purposes, your Warp and Sensenich (76x54) are very close to the same performance. I believe it was Brian Cross that was disappointed with his Sensenich (76x56) numbers after flying behind a Warp. The 25 extra lb. is the price you pay for peace of mind. Keep us informed with more test as you go. I'm very interested in your findings.

I have a Sensenich 76x56 with a Lycoming 0320 150 HP too, and am happy with its performance but have not flown it with anything else to compare it to.

Bruce 357R


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