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1800 Amphibs

Converted from Wildcat! database. (read only)
klehman

1800 Amphibs

Post by klehman » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:16 pm

Hi Walter
Congratulations on the floats and the rating. I appreciate hearing about your
adventures. If convenient, please e-mail a copy of that document to me as well.
thanks
Ken


Walter Klatt wrote:
Ron, I have a Word document from MAM that shows all the dimensions and
clearances for the floats on a Rebel. I will send it to you by private
email, to keep attachments out of the list and the archives. It shows the
tail as being 10 feet high. I haven't actually measured mine yet, but that
sounds about right. My hangar clearance is 11 feet at the door and I have
lots of room left. If someone else wants a copy, let me know.


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Rebflyer

1800 Amphibs

Post by Rebflyer » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:16 pm

Hi Walt,
I'm using the 3 blade sq tip 72" set at 10.5 deg.
Fyi, it seems that 1deg change is 100 rpm. As I fly more, and if I havn't said, I'm wet now, I think I'll back off a deg or so. It's got lots on the water. 2 on board, 3-5kts wind, 75 deg temp 35gal of fuel and a 12 sec run from power up to airborne, and my
technique still leaves alot to be desired. Stick in lap for to long still. What great fun!! Keep at it everyone it's worth it! Curt N97MR



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rebel

1800 Amphibs

Post by rebel » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:59 pm

I am looking at installing an electric hydraulic pump to work in conjunction
with the manual pump If any of you who have done this would care to comment, I
would appreciate your input.
Bernie DeSantis Rebel 554
desan@vianet.on.ca


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Al & Deb Paxhia

1800 Amphibs

Post by Al & Deb Paxhia » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:59 pm

I have an electric pump in parallel with the manual pump. My manual pump has
three positions, gear up, gear down and off. For the electric pump to
operate, the manual pump is always left in the off position. There is lots
more to the system. The system has limit switches at each ram and pressure
cutoff switches at the pump.
Montana Float has a package, pump, electronics, audio response unit that
goes with their floats. I would give Keith at Montana Float a call and see
if he will sell the parts and pieces.
Al, Moose N526AP
----- Original Message -----
From: <rebel@dcsol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 10:51 AM
Subject: 1800 Amphibs

I am looking at installing an electric hydraulic pump to work in
conjunction
with the manual pump If any of you who have done this would care to
comment, I
would appreciate your input.
Bernie DeSantis Rebel 554
desan@vianet.on.ca


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Wayne G. O'Shea

1800 Amphibs

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:59 pm

Got'ta ask why take the simplicity out of it Bernie?? If you go to Electric
pump you'd better get rid of those plastic lines as well. (unless of course
you already plumbed with alum/steel lines)

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <rebel@dcsol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 1:51 PM
Subject: 1800 Amphibs

I am looking at installing an electric hydraulic pump to work in
conjunction
with the manual pump If any of you who have done this would care to
comment, I
would appreciate your input.
Bernie DeSantis Rebel 554
desan@vianet.on.ca


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Rebflyer

1800 Amphibs

Post by Rebflyer » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:59 pm

OK Bernie, here goes. My one and only question. WHY? To add to that, weight
doesn't fly. It only takes 15 nice slow strokes to raise or lower the gear,
and It gives you a little more time to make sure it's going in the right
direction. I usually agree with some form of redunduncy, but if you have a
line blow out, it doesn't really matter what your moving the fluid with.
By the way, mulled that over for a while too, but decided to get things
flying first, and now I won't bother. BUT, it';s your airplane! Isn't that
great? Curt N97MR



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Walter Klatt

1800 Amphibs

Post by Walter Klatt » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:01 pm

I've been flying mine for almost 2 years now with just
the pump, and it works great. At this point, I wouldn't
even think of putting in an electric pump. I really
like the simplicity and light weight of the Murphy set
up.

Walter
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
rebflyer@aol.com
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 6:36 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: 1800 Amphibs


OK Bernie, here goes. My one and only
question. WHY? To add to that, weight
doesn't fly. It only takes 15 nice slow
strokes to raise or lower the gear,
and It gives you a little more time to make
sure it's going in the right
direction. I usually agree with some form of
redunduncy, but if you have a
line blow out, it doesn't really matter what
your moving the fluid with.
By the way, mulled that over for a while
too, but decided to get things
flying first, and now I won't bother. BUT,
it';s your airplane! Isn't that
great? Curt N97MR



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Legeorgen

1800 Amphibs

Post by Legeorgen » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:15 pm

I had an opportunity to see Steve Sloan's Amphip Rebel at Arlington and would
like to relay to he rest of the list what a fabulous job he has done. It is
one of the nicest Rebel I have seen. His attention to detail is very evident.

Steve has shortened his spreader bars 8" and this has lowered the profile of
the whole aircraft about 12" on floats and making his Amphibs slightly less
weight. Steve said he measured a Cessna 180 and the stock Rebel amphibs where
wider than the 180.

I am considering doing the same or something maybe in the order of 5 or 6"
shorter on the spreaders and would like to hear comments pro/con from any of you
float pilots. Thanks.

Bruce N96HG



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Wayne G. O'Shea

1800 Amphibs

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:15 pm

Bruce, to keep the same strut angles (when looking straight on at the
aircraft) so as to transfer loading in the same load path as DM planned for
in the original set up I measured the following numbers (as I anticipate
lowering mine by this amount when I do my installation so I can use some
flying wires I have in stock instead of x cables).

To shorten the mounting struts by 4" (linear along the length of the rear
strut and remember the front one being on an angle would actually be
shortened more than 4" linear when you shorten it 4" parallel to the angle
cut on the top) you need to narrow the spreader bars by 5" to keep the strut
angle and get the bolt fittings back to the attachment width at the
fuselage. Shortening the mount struts by 4" will move the bolt holes out
2.5" on each side so this x 2 = 5" that the spreaders need narrowing to keep
the angles on the struts the same and get them back to the fuselage
fittings. If you make the strut angles any shallower than the original set
up then you also chance collapsing the struts in a landing. Right now MAM
has them pretty much 45* to give max compression strength and max load
distribution into the airframe and I suggest you don't mess with that and
become a "test pilot".

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <Legeorgen@aol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 6:38 PM
Subject: Re: 1800 Amphibs

I had an opportunity to see Steve Sloan's Amphip Rebel at Arlington and
would
like to relay to he rest of the list what a fabulous job he has done. It
is
one of the nicest Rebel I have seen. His attention to detail is very
evident.
Steve has shortened his spreader bars 8" and this has lowered the profile
of
the whole aircraft about 12" on floats and making his Amphibs slightly
less
weight. Steve said he measured a Cessna 180 and the stock Rebel amphibs
where
wider than the 180.

I am considering doing the same or something maybe in the order of 5 or 6"
shorter on the spreaders and would like to hear comments pro/con from any
of you
float pilots. Thanks.

Bruce N96HG



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Andy Bowman

1800 Amphibs

Post by Andy Bowman » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:15 pm

hi wayne,

clint would like to know why we have 16 pumpout fittings when he counts
18 places in the floats that need to be pumped?

do you have pumpouts on both the inside and the outside of the main
gear bay?


thanks andy

__________________________________
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SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
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Legeorgen

1800 Amphibs

Post by Legeorgen » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:15 pm

Wayne,

I understand keeping the 45*angle on the struts is important. I believe I
understand the geometry and I won't make any cuts until I'm sure. But are there
any benefits or disadvantages to handling or flight in altering the original
MAM design.

I'm really not one to mess with the original MAM stock floats and I surly
don't want to be a real test pilot. Not having more than a few hours as passenger
in a float plane and having to still get my rating I would have to see some
real advantage to take the extra time and risk to change it.

Bruce



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Wayne G. O'Shea

1800 Amphibs

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:15 pm

NO, you only need 16. The instructions tell you to drill a 3/16 hole, though
the step bulkhead, in the lower corner of the wheel wells side compartments.
This allows any leakage into this area to drain to the step compartment.

Wayne


----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Bowman" <bowmanout@yahoo.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: 1800 Amphibs

hi wayne,

clint would like to know why we have 16 pumpout fittings when he counts
18 places in the floats that need to be pumped?

do you have pumpouts on both the inside and the outside of the main
gear bay?


thanks andy

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com


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Drew Dalgleish

1800 Amphibs

Post by Drew Dalgleish » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:15 pm

At 06:38 PM 7/16/2003 EDT, you wrote:
I had an opportunity to see Steve Sloan's Amphip Rebel at Arlington and
would
like to relay to he rest of the list what a fabulous job he has done. It is
one of the nicest Rebel I have seen. His attention to detail is very evident.

Steve has shortened his spreader bars 8" and this has lowered the profile of
the whole aircraft about 12" on floats and making his Amphibs slightly less
weight. Steve said he measured a Cessna 180 and the stock Rebel amphibs
where
wider than the 180.

I am considering doing the same or something maybe in the order of 5 or 6"
shorter on the spreaders and would like to hear comments pro/con from any
of you
float pilots. Thanks.

Bruce N96HG

Hi Bruce
I've only 20 hrs. float time so my thoughts don't come from tons of
experience. As I see the pros shortening and lowering the plane will save a
little weight and decrease drag slightly. The cons are with a narrowed
stance the plane will not be as stable on the water and the prop will be a
lot closer to the water exposing it to more spray causing faster erosion.
Making changes to the plans will increase your instalation time. The
current geometry has proven to work well in lots of instalations.
Drew Dalgleish




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Wayne G. O'Shea

1800 Amphibs

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:15 pm

The high mounting height has lots of advantages...prop up out of water,
missing dock posts, wider float stance for more stability and looking bigger
on the ramp!!

Cons are further to fall when you miss the first step, longer mounting
struts (thus more chance of compression collapse from bowing out during
compression load), higher thrust line that in a flat landing can help you
dig in (due to the rotational moment from the water that has grabbed your
floats, to prop height that is trying to pull you forward) and throw you
forward into your harness (not a great feeling and requires pant clean out
afterwards if you are lucky enough to stay upright and not get them washed
for you!).

Lower mounting has the advantages of the lower thrust line (thus less moment
arm from water level to the thrust line), shorter thus slightly stronger
struts, and of course a shorter ladder is required to fuel.

Cons are of course prop closer to water (erosion), narrower float stance
(but still probably wider than a C185!!), less wing clearance for dock
posts, etc

Every aircraft mechanic I have come across that works on floats states that
"the Rebel is mounted a WAY too high on floats and looks dangerous"! Haven't
heard any complaints from all the guys that are flying them mounted per
MAM's original height though, although I must admit that they do look less
awkward when lowered down about a foot to a similar height of a C172 on
floats.

Flip a coin and go for it! Remember also that the front strut is on a pretty
good angle to begin with (when viewed from the side) and the shorter you
make the strut the steeper this angle gets causing less chance that the
supplied end fittings will fit and more chance of collapse in a hard
landing.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <Legeorgen@aol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 8:37 AM
Subject: Re: 1800 Amphibs

Wayne,

I understand keeping the 45*angle on the struts is important. I believe I
understand the geometry and I won't make any cuts until I'm sure. But are
there
any benefits or disadvantages to handling or flight in altering the
original
MAM design.

I'm really not one to mess with the original MAM stock floats and I surly
don't want to be a real test pilot. Not having more than a few hours as
passenger
in a float plane and having to still get my rating I would have to see
some
real advantage to take the extra time and risk to change it.

Bruce



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Legeorgen

1800 Amphibs

Post by Legeorgen » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:15 pm

Thanks everyone for the input on shortening the amphibs. I'll keep you all
informed on what I decide. I'm leaning on maybe shortening the spreaders 4
inches. That will make nice compromise and lower the stance by 1/2 a foot.

Bruce



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