REBEL spring gear fix

[lawsonb]

The following is what has transpired so far between Alister and
myself. Please chime in everybody.

Brian Lawson Rebel 528

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
To: "yeom" <yeom@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Rebel gear

Hey Alister,

Thanks for the reply.

I've never had a lot of skill or success wandering around the Maddog
Murphy site, but I "looked" at the files, and the only thing I see are
two photos (Rebel2.jpg and Rebel3.jpg) of what appears to be a
substantial tapered spar running aft from the two outboard gear clamp
bolts towards the rear, maybe to the conventional gear attach points.
These spars appear to have a lot of lightening holes. If this is
correct, are these cast, billet machined, or formed pieces. Have
others done the same that you know of?

TIA

Brian Lawson.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
At 09:13 AM 19/07/2002 +1200, you wrote:

Hi Brian,
I had a lot to say about this about two (?) years ago on
this list, there should be any amount of information in the archives,
including photos of my final fix. ( maybe under Rebel spring gear)

The good thing is the Rebel has turned out to be the aircraft I was
hoping it would be and I am having a ball with it !

Cheers

Alister



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[yeom]

Hi Brian
My interest was mainly in regard to the Super Rebel/Moose issues,
I guess the Rebel gear problems are a bit 'old hat' to me now!

There is no guarantee that you will have problems with your spring gear, all
of my flying is off grass and unimproved strips.

Apart from all the top engine mount/firewall/tail issues, which it looks
like you're on top of, I had two main problems.

One was the attachment of the spring gear leg at the straddle brackets with
those stupid spacers through the end of the carrythroughs,that all fell to
bits and broke. There appears to be a Murphy fix for that so I guess you
will be right there.
(I put solid inserts in the end of the carrythough to act as a spacer.)

The other I found to be a bit more troublesome, this was persistent buckling
of the skins around the gear attach point and working of the rivets up the
doorpost. These loads came from the twisting braking type loads I have
described.
I tried beefing up the skins in the near locality and even replacing the
bottom skin under the aircraft that the fingers attach to with 63 thou.( all
extra weight!!) All to no avail.

In desperation I built a hard point at the rear attach point station for the
bungee gear and built up a small beam which I attached from there, forward
to the straddle bolts (longer bolts, not cheap either!) ---- end of problem!

My opinion is, If you intend to mainly three point your Rebel ( wheel
landings aggravate the situation) onto mostly sealed airfields you will not
have a problem, if you intend to use it off airfield consistently, you
probably will.

What to do? Maybe, to cover your bet when you construct your Rebel, you
build in a hard point ( with 1/4 floating nut plate) under the area
described, this allows you the option of, if doing out field work, of
bolting on something similar to what I have. When you eventually sell your
aircraft (or you tone down your flying!) this can simply be removed and the
gear fairings put back on.

You would never know the hard point was there, if not needed, it is not
obtrusive, but if needed, no skin/paint work is required to remedy the
situation.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Alister





----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Lawson <lawsonb@mnsi.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: REBEL spring gear fix


The following is what has transpired so far between Alister and
myself. Please chime in everybody.

Brian Lawson Rebel 528

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
To: "yeom" <yeom@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Rebel gear

Hey Alister,

Thanks for the reply.

I've never had a lot of skill or success wandering around the Maddog
Murphy site, but I "looked" at the files, and the only thing I see are
two photos (Rebel2.jpg and Rebel3.jpg) of what appears to be a
substantial tapered spar running aft from the two outboard gear clamp
bolts towards the rear, maybe to the conventional gear attach points.
These spars appear to have a lot of lightening holes. If this is
correct, are these cast, billet machined, or formed pieces. Have
others done the same that you know of?

TIA

Brian Lawson.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
At 09:13 AM 19/07/2002 +1200, you wrote:

Hi Brian,
I had a lot to say about this about two (?) years ago on
this list, there should be any amount of information in the archives,
including photos of my final fix. ( maybe under Rebel spring gear)

The good thing is the Rebel has turned out to be the aircraft I was
hoping it would be and I am having a ball with it !

Cheers

Alister

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[lawsonb]

Hey again Alister,

OK. Thanks for the info. I'll print this up and along with the two
"photos", I'll put my views to the "committee" we have building this
one!.

TA

Brian Lawson,
Windsor, Ontario.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
On Fri, 19 Jul 2002 18:40:16 +1200, you wrote:

Hi Brian
My interest was mainly in regard to the Super Rebel/Moose issues,
I guess the Rebel gear problems are a bit 'old hat' to me now!

There is no guarantee that you will have problems with your spring gear, all
of my flying is off grass and unimproved strips.

Apart from all the top engine mount/firewall/tail issues, which it looks
like you're on top of, I had two main problems.

One was the attachment of the spring gear leg at the straddle brackets with
those stupid spacers through the end of the carrythroughs,that all fell to
bits and broke. There appears to be a Murphy fix for that so I guess you
will be right there.
(I put solid inserts in the end of the carrythough to act as a spacer.)

The other I found to be a bit more troublesome, this was persistent buckling
of the skins around the gear attach point and working of the rivets up the
doorpost. These loads came from the twisting braking type loads I have
described.
I tried beefing up the skins in the near locality and even replacing the
bottom skin under the aircraft that the fingers attach to with 63 thou.( all
extra weight!!) All to no avail.

In desperation I built a hard point at the rear attach point station for the
bungee gear and built up a small beam which I attached from there, forward
to the straddle bolts (longer bolts, not cheap either!) ---- end of problem!

My opinion is, If you intend to mainly three point your Rebel ( wheel
landings aggravate the situation) onto mostly sealed airfields you will not
have a problem, if you intend to use it off airfield consistently, you
probably will.

What to do? Maybe, to cover your bet when you construct your Rebel, you
build in a hard point ( with 1/4 floating nut plate) under the area
described, this allows you the option of, if doing out field work, of
bolting on something similar to what I have. When you eventually sell your
aircraft (or you tone down your flying!) this can simply be removed and the
gear fairings put back on.

You would never know the hard point was there, if not needed, it is not
obtrusive, but if needed, no skin/paint work is required to remedy the
situation.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Alister





----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Lawson <lawsonb@mnsi.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: REBEL spring gear fix


The following is what has transpired so far between Alister and
myself. Please chime in everybody.

Brian Lawson Rebel 528

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
To: "yeom" <yeom@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Rebel gear

Hey Alister,

Thanks for the reply.

I've never had a lot of skill or success wandering around the Maddog
Murphy site, but I "looked" at the files, and the only thing I see are
two photos (Rebel2.jpg and Rebel3.jpg) of what appears to be a
substantial tapered spar running aft from the two outboard gear clamp
bolts towards the rear, maybe to the conventional gear attach points.
These spars appear to have a lot of lightening holes. If this is
correct, are these cast, billet machined, or formed pieces. Have
others done the same that you know of?

TIA

Brian Lawson.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
At 09:13 AM 19/07/2002 +1200, you wrote:

Hi Brian,
I had a lot to say about this about two (?) years ago on
this list, there should be any amount of information in the archives,
including photos of my final fix. ( maybe under Rebel spring gear)

The good thing is the Rebel has turned out to be the aircraft I was
hoping it would be and I am having a ball with it !

Cheers

Alister

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[Rick DeCiero]

Brian,
I was installing my Rebel gear back when Alister developed the torque arm
from the saddles to the rear bungee gear mounting point. I built my rear bungee
mounts into the A/C even though I knew I was going to install the spring gear.
Therefore, I added a similar arm to my Rebel. My arm is a 2 x 2" x 1/8" steel
angle iron that bolts to the underside of the spring gear saddles and runs back
to the rear bungee gear mounting point. This addition also appears to distribute
the side loads so that some of the side or twisting load is carried by the rear
bungee gear mount. I believe that there have been some instances of the outboard
bolts shearing under a hard side loaded landing. You can barely see the angles if
you look at the front cowling picture that I posted last week under "Rebel cowl"
category. When my friend with his digital camera comes over again I'll take some
pics and post.
Good luck, you'll need it
Rick D.
Rebel N754SM

Brian Lawson wrote:

Hey again Alister,

OK. Thanks for the info. I'll print this up and along with the two
"photos", I'll put my views to the "committee" we have building this
one!.

TA

Brian Lawson,
Windsor, Ontario.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
On Fri, 19 Jul 2002 18:40:16 +1200, you wrote:

Hi Brian
My interest was mainly in regard to the Super Rebel/Moose issues,
I guess the Rebel gear problems are a bit 'old hat' to me now!

There is no guarantee that you will have problems with your spring gear, all
of my flying is off grass and unimproved strips.

Apart from all the top engine mount/firewall/tail issues, which it looks
like you're on top of, I had two main problems.

One was the attachment of the spring gear leg at the straddle brackets with
those stupid spacers through the end of the carrythroughs,that all fell to
bits and broke. There appears to be a Murphy fix for that so I guess you
will be right there.
(I put solid inserts in the end of the carrythough to act as a spacer.)

The other I found to be a bit more troublesome, this was persistent buckling
of the skins around the gear attach point and working of the rivets up the
doorpost. These loads came from the twisting braking type loads I have
described.
I tried beefing up the skins in the near locality and even replacing the
bottom skin under the aircraft that the fingers attach to with 63 thou.( all
extra weight!!) All to no avail.

In desperation I built a hard point at the rear attach point station for the
bungee gear and built up a small beam which I attached from there, forward
to the straddle bolts (longer bolts, not cheap either!) ---- end of problem!

My opinion is, If you intend to mainly three point your Rebel ( wheel
landings aggravate the situation) onto mostly sealed airfields you will not
have a problem, if you intend to use it off airfield consistently, you
probably will.

What to do? Maybe, to cover your bet when you construct your Rebel, you
build in a hard point ( with 1/4 floating nut plate) under the area
described, this allows you the option of, if doing out field work, of
bolting on something similar to what I have. When you eventually sell your
aircraft (or you tone down your flying!) this can simply be removed and the
gear fairings put back on.

You would never know the hard point was there, if not needed, it is not
obtrusive, but if needed, no skin/paint work is required to remedy the
situation.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Alister





----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Lawson <lawsonb@mnsi.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: REBEL spring gear fix


The following is what has transpired so far between Alister and
myself. Please chime in everybody.

Brian Lawson Rebel 528

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
To: "yeom" <yeom@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Rebel gear

Hey Alister,

Thanks for the reply.

I've never had a lot of skill or success wandering around the Maddog
Murphy site, but I "looked" at the files, and the only thing I see are
two photos (Rebel2.jpg and Rebel3.jpg) of what appears to be a
substantial tapered spar running aft from the two outboard gear clamp
bolts towards the rear, maybe to the conventional gear attach points.
These spars appear to have a lot of lightening holes. If this is
correct, are these cast, billet machined, or formed pieces. Have
others done the same that you know of?

TIA

Brian Lawson.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
At 09:13 AM 19/07/2002 +1200, you wrote:

Hi Brian,
I had a lot to say about this about two (?) years ago on
this list, there should be any amount of information in the archives,
including photos of my final fix. ( maybe under Rebel spring gear)

The good thing is the Rebel has turned out to be the aircraft I was
hoping it would be and I am having a ball with it !

Cheers

Alister

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