3 or 4 seats

Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:51 pm

Received: from [137.186.225.197] (helo=ms01-451.tor.istar.ca)
by mail2.toronto.istar.net with smtp (Exim 1.92 #2)
for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
id 0zYfhJ-0000eX-00; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 19:12:18 -0500
X-Sender: crs1188@inforamp.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com> (Murphy Rebel)
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
Subject: 3 or 4 seats
Message-Id: <E0zYfhJ-0000eX-00@mail2.toronto.istar.net>
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 19:12:18 -0500

I've changed the subject line above, and deleted the earlier messages,
so we can start a new thread....

There are at least 5 Rebels nearby that have four seats, and several
(including both of ours) that have 3 seats.

The original factory idea was to have a third seat in the rear,
facing sideways. This works best if you put the seat back against the right
side of the fuselage, leaving the flap mechanism on the opposite side clear.
The factory actually made up a prototype seat, but I don't think it ever
went beyond that... They really don't like the idea of more seats - it IS
a compromise, but then, most 4 seaters fly around with ONE person aboard,
probably 90 % of the time !!

The third seat was VERY low, basically just a cushion on the floor,
with a lap belt. You could pick up one end of the belt on the same attach
point as the front lap belt, and possibly add something to the float attach
brackets for the other end. Or you could just design separate mounts....

Several Rebel builders put in the attach points, just in case, and
can now use them as hook points for cargo tie-downs (a REALLY good thing
to have !!)

As someone else pointed out, head & leg room are THE big concern,
after weight & CG. For smaller passengers and children, there is no
problem.

On to the FOUR seats ....

The very best implementation I've seen is Tobey Riley's !! He
made up two cross tubes (same material as the aileron torque tube), with
bolts on the ends. These bolts drop down into slots in special reinforcing
fittings in the wing roots, AND on the fuselage sides, at the bottom rear
of the baggage area. He sent drawings of these fittings to the factory,
and Darryl approved them, with a few improvements. Tobey had special
canvas sewn up to slide over these tubes, in 2 parts. This gave him
2 cloth sling seats, facing backwards. Since the cross tube is fairly
far forward, and the back fuse is open, there is enough head AND leg
room for most passengers, and his CG calcs allow 420 lb. in the back !
The beauty of this is: it weighs VERY little, AND he can roll
it up, lift out the tubes, and still sleep 2 in the back !!

Other 4 seat mods:

Several have just extended the seat rails back, with a notch
cut out, for easy seat removal, and just added 2 more regular Rebel
seats. Gives 4 fully adjustable seats.

Others have welded up a tubular frame and made one long bench
seat, with a folding back, to allow access to the rear.

Lots of different ways to go !!

The Elite is heavier than the Rebel, so you may not have
enough extra useful load for 4 seats, and your seats are further back
because
of the moved firewall, so there is less leg room in back, but 3 seats should
be OK, and the extra weight in the back sure won't hurt !!
(Check your CG calcs !)

.....bobp

----------------------------------orig.------------------------------
At 07:14 PM 10/27/98 -0400, you wrote:

Bob

This is the second mail from you today that mentions 4 seats in a Rebel,

how

about filling in some of the blanks?

I have only heard the factory position that the Rebel (or in our case, the
Elite) is a 3 person plane at most and with the rear seat turned around for

CG

reasons. Your comments seem to indicate otherwise, what is possible and

what

is practicle or what are the limitations? How about a discussion on this
topic?

Thanks

Dave Ricker
Elite #583

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:51 pm

Received: from ibm (3Cust40.tnt6.sea1.da.uu.net [208.253.75.40])
by smtp1.mailsrvcs.net with SMTP id UAA00201
for <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 20:09:56 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <001d01be03a9$df337380$03000004@ibm>
From: "Charles Skorupa" <chucks@gte.net>
To: "Murphy Rebel" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: 3 or 4 seats
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 18:05:11 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3

I am building the Elite with fabric flaperons and without the nose gear. I
will have the .032 leading edge skin and other upgrades which will add a
little weight but are more than compensated buy the 150 lb increased gross
weight to 1800 lb. My net useful load should increase considerably over the
stock Rebel, so a 4 seater is easily attainable. I like the tube idea but
have to think a bit about seat belts and how the aft passengers would
interact with the forward passengers in an accident scenario.

- Chuck Skorupa -
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: Murphy Rebel <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Wednesday, October 28, 1998 4:12 PM
Subject: 3 or 4 seats

I've changed the subject line above, and deleted the earlier messages,
so we can start a new thread....

There are at least 5 Rebels nearby that have four seats, and

several

(including both of ours) that have 3 seats.

The original factory idea was to have a third seat in the rear,
facing sideways. This works best if you put the seat back against the right
side of the fuselage, leaving the flap mechanism on the opposite side

clear.

The factory actually made up a prototype seat, but I don't think it ever
went beyond that... They really don't like the idea of more seats - it IS
a compromise, but then, most 4 seaters fly around with ONE person aboard,
probably 90 % of the time !!

The third seat was VERY low, basically just a cushion on the floor,
with a lap belt. You could pick up one end of the belt on the same attach
point as the front lap belt, and possibly add something to the float attach
brackets for the other end. Or you could just design separate mounts....

Several Rebel builders put in the attach points, just in case, and
can now use them as hook points for cargo tie-downs (a REALLY good thing
to have !!)

As someone else pointed out, head & leg room are THE big concern,
after weight & CG. For smaller passengers and children, there is no
problem.

On to the FOUR seats ....

The very best implementation I've seen is Tobey Riley's !! He
made up two cross tubes (same material as the aileron torque tube), with
bolts on the ends. These bolts drop down into slots in special reinforcing
fittings in the wing roots, AND on the fuselage sides, at the bottom rear
of the baggage area. He sent drawings of these fittings to the factory,
and Darryl approved them, with a few improvements. Tobey had special
canvas sewn up to slide over these tubes, in 2 parts. This gave him
2 cloth sling seats, facing backwards. Since the cross tube is fairly
far forward, and the back fuse is open, there is enough head AND leg
room for most passengers, and his CG calcs allow 420 lb. in the back !
The beauty of this is: it weighs VERY little, AND he can roll
it up, lift out the tubes, and still sleep 2 in the back !!

Other 4 seat mods:

Several have just extended the seat rails back, with a notch
cut out, for easy seat removal, and just added 2 more regular Rebel
seats. Gives 4 fully adjustable seats.

Others have welded up a tubular frame and made one long bench
seat, with a folding back, to allow access to the rear.

Lots of different ways to go !!

The Elite is heavier than the Rebel, so you may not have
enough extra useful load for 4 seats, and your seats are further back

because

of the moved firewall, so there is less leg room in back, but 3 seats

should

be OK, and the extra weight in the back sure won't hurt !!
(Check your CG calcs !)

.....bobp

----------------------------------orig.------------------------------
At 07:14 PM 10/27/98 -0400, you wrote:
Bob

This is the second mail from you today that mentions 4 seats in a Rebel,

how

about filling in some of the blanks?

I have only heard the factory position that the Rebel (or in our case, the
Elite) is a 3 person plane at most and with the rear seat turned around

for CG

reasons. Your comments seem to indicate otherwise, what is possible and

what

is practicle or what are the limitations? How about a discussion on this
topic?

Thanks

Dave Ricker
Elite #583

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:51 pm

Received: from [137.186.225.209] (helo=ms01-463.tor.istar.ca)
by mail2.toronto.istar.net with smtp (Exim 1.92 #2)
for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
id 0zZ5m8-0003MZ-00; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 23:03:01 -0500
X-Sender: crs1188@inforamp.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com> (Murphy Rebel)
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
Subject: Re: 3 or 4 seats
Message-Id: <E0zZ5m8-0003MZ-00@mail2.toronto.istar.net>
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 23:03:01 -0500

Fabric flapperons !! Great !! I'm glad SOMEBODY appreciates the
weight saving ! And, of course, you don't need the 'training wheel' !!!
Should be a GREAT performer !!!

The seat belts were just added on to the pickups for the front
belts. I guess the slings would stop the rear passengers from coming
forward ....

...bobp
--------------------------------orig.--------------------------------
At 06:05 PM 10/29/98 -0800, you wrote:

I am building the Elite with fabric flaperons and without the nose gear. I
will have the .032 leading edge skin and other upgrades which will add a
little weight but are more than compensated buy the 150 lb increased gross
weight to 1800 lb. My net useful load should increase considerably over

the

stock Rebel, so a 4 seater is easily attainable. I like the tube idea but
have to think a bit about seat belts and how the aft passengers would
interact with the forward passengers in an accident scenario.

- Chuck Skorupa -
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: Murphy Rebel <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Wednesday, October 28, 1998 4:12 PM
Subject: 3 or 4 seats

I've changed the subject line above, and deleted the earlier

messages,

so we can start a new thread....

There are at least 5 Rebels nearby that have four seats, and
several
(including both of ours) that have 3 seats.

The original factory idea was to have a third seat in the rear,
facing sideways. This works best if you put the seat back against the

right

side of the fuselage, leaving the flap mechanism on the opposite side
clear.
The factory actually made up a prototype seat, but I don't think it ever
went beyond that... They really don't like the idea of more seats - it

IS

a compromise, but then, most 4 seaters fly around with ONE person aboard,
probably 90 % of the time !!

The third seat was VERY low, basically just a cushion on the

floor,

with a lap belt. You could pick up one end of the belt on the same attach
point as the front lap belt, and possibly add something to the float

attach

brackets for the other end. Or you could just design separate mounts....

Several Rebel builders put in the attach points, just in case, and
can now use them as hook points for cargo tie-downs (a REALLY good thing
to have !!)

As someone else pointed out, head & leg room are THE big concern,
after weight & CG. For smaller passengers and children, there is no
problem.

On to the FOUR seats ....

The very best implementation I've seen is Tobey Riley's !! He
made up two cross tubes (same material as the aileron torque tube), with
bolts on the ends. These bolts drop down into slots in special reinforcing
fittings in the wing roots, AND on the fuselage sides, at the bottom rear
of the baggage area. He sent drawings of these fittings to the factory,
and Darryl approved them, with a few improvements. Tobey had special
canvas sewn up to slide over these tubes, in 2 parts. This gave him
2 cloth sling seats, facing backwards. Since the cross tube is fairly
far forward, and the back fuse is open, there is enough head AND leg
room for most passengers, and his CG calcs allow 420 lb. in the back !
The beauty of this is: it weighs VERY little, AND he can roll
it up, lift out the tubes, and still sleep 2 in the back !!

Other 4 seat mods:

Several have just extended the seat rails back, with a notch
cut out, for easy seat removal, and just added 2 more regular Rebel
seats. Gives 4 fully adjustable seats.

Others have welded up a tubular frame and made one long bench
seat, with a folding back, to allow access to the rear.

Lots of different ways to go !!

The Elite is heavier than the Rebel, so you may not have
enough extra useful load for 4 seats, and your seats are further back
because
of the moved firewall, so there is less leg room in back, but 3 seats
should
be OK, and the extra weight in the back sure won't hurt !!
(Check your CG calcs !)

.....bobp

----------------------------------orig.------------------------------
At 07:14 PM 10/27/98 -0400, you wrote:
Bob

This is the second mail from you today that mentions 4 seats in a Rebel,
how
about filling in some of the blanks?

I have only heard the factory position that the Rebel (or in our case,

the

Elite) is a 3 person plane at most and with the rear seat turned around
for CG
reasons. Your comments seem to indicate otherwise, what is possible and
what
is practicle or what are the limitations? How about a discussion on this
topic?

Thanks

Dave Ricker
Elite #583

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------