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To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
From: Dave Klimas <drk@cts.com>
Subject: Upholstering
Hiya folks.
Dave has informed me that I am in charge of upholstering the seats...and no
sub-contracting allowed! OK, I have some basic sewing skills and can follow
a pattern and instructions, but the thought of padding and covering a metal
frame with virtually no experience makes me nervous. I am afraid that he is
putting together a plane that will look totally cool when complete (with no
small credit to his high standards) and then the seats will have that "made
with loving hands at home" look.
Naturally I want to choose a fabric that will wear well and a design that
allows peeling the covers off for a trip through the washer & dryer.
What have you done for your seats? What fabric did you choose? What type of
foam? What references did you use? What do you wish you had done
differently? Did you use a sewing machine or a serger?
Any and all suggestions/guidance appreciated.
Bert
#472R
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Upholstering
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Mike Davis
Upholstering
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Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 20:47:00 -0500
From: klehman@albedo.net
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To: " (Murphy Rebel)" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Upholstering
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Hi Bert
Have been giving this some thought as well. One of the local guys, Phil S.,
showed us a seat that that incorporated an Obus Forme back rest. Those
things
are the most comfortable back rests I've ever seen and I find them a big
improvement over a car seat back. About $60. cdn each.
There was a company at Oshkosh that sold Confor Foams ("Temperfoam"
equivalent)
for about half the Temperfoam price. They claimed to be the inventor of the
stuff. Believe I paid US$30. for 1x18"x40" sheets. Sat on a 1" thickness for
13
hours on the way home and was impressed. They recommended 2" of blue
(medium-firm) with 1" of pink (medium-soft) on top for the Toronto
temperatures.
Company is Skandia Inc. 5181 Falcon Rd., Rockford IL 61109 815-227-1611
Dennis
Haack was the sles manager. I believe they mostly do professional aircraft
soundproofing but they also sell the materials.
I am thinking of enclosing the above in upholstery material using lots of
Velcro....
Ken
Dave Klimas wrote:
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To: " (Murphy Rebel)" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Upholstering
References: <v04003a01b25ce6f3c9f5@[205.163.8.199]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Hi Bert
Have been giving this some thought as well. One of the local guys, Phil S.,
showed us a seat that that incorporated an Obus Forme back rest. Those
things
are the most comfortable back rests I've ever seen and I find them a big
improvement over a car seat back. About $60. cdn each.
There was a company at Oshkosh that sold Confor Foams ("Temperfoam"
equivalent)
for about half the Temperfoam price. They claimed to be the inventor of the
stuff. Believe I paid US$30. for 1x18"x40" sheets. Sat on a 1" thickness for
13
hours on the way home and was impressed. They recommended 2" of blue
(medium-firm) with 1" of pink (medium-soft) on top for the Toronto
temperatures.
Company is Skandia Inc. 5181 Falcon Rd., Rockford IL 61109 815-227-1611
Dennis
Haack was the sles manager. I believe they mostly do professional aircraft
soundproofing but they also sell the materials.
I am thinking of enclosing the above in upholstery material using lots of
Velcro....
Ken
Dave Klimas wrote:
no sub-contracting allowed!Hiya folks.
Dave has informed me that I am in charge of upholstering the seats...and
Bert
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Mike Davis
Upholstering
Received: from [137.186.225.209] (helo=ms01-463.tor.istar.ca)
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id 0zZ5eO-00032X-00; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 22:55:01 -0500
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To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com> (Murphy Rebel)
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
Subject: Re: Upholstering
Message-Id: <E0zZ5eO-00032X-00@mail2.toronto.istar.net>
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 22:55:01 -0500
Oh, no !!! We all feel sorry for you !!! Please add our voices
to encourage 'the boss' to relent & let you get some professional help !!
(We've seen a few 'homemade' interiors !! ) No insult intended, it's
just a LOT of work - and often just not worth it. (a bit like insisting
on mining & smelting your own aluminum to build the Rebel !!! :-) )
Some things are just better left to a professional - most folks don't
build their own radios, or instruments ...
Well, if you're really determined, here's a few suggestions:
If possible, use 'aircraft quality' material - some of the automotive
and home material is NOT fire-resistant, AND gives off toxic smoke when
ignited !!
Several builders have used polyurethane foam (don't ask me about the
fire qualities ???). Good practice is to use 2 different densities of
foam (I think its measured in 'durometer hardness' ??) - in any case,
more & bigger bubbles = softer. (some high-tech description, eh ?? ;-) )
The idea is to use about 4" of the harder stuff on the bottom,
then 2" of the softer stuff. If you can possibly afford it, add another
inch of TEMPERFOAM on top. (comes under several names - this is the
stuff they use on the space shuttle - it adjusts to a custom fit when
softened by body heat - it is AMAZING !!). A square of temperfoam -
(pink, blue, & yellow laminated together) will run about $50 - $80/seat -
worth every penny !!
Now you're saying "that sounds like an AWFULLY HIGH seat !" -
try this measurement in your Rebel - you'll be surprised how much more
you can see outside, and how much easier it is to get in & out. Remember
that foam will flatten out a bit over time ...
If you make the cushions much thinner than this in the standard
Rebel, the seat belt attach brackets will raise your husband's voice
several octaves every time he gets in or out quickly !!!! :-)
We have used 'Naugahyde' (any synthetic leather - or the real thing !)
for the seat sides & bottoms - it is very durable, and washes up easily
in place. ALWAYS use cloth (synthetic ??) for the center part of the
seats, back & bottom. Naugahyde is durable, & attractive, but it is
'WAY TOO HOT in the summertime !!
If you do want 'removable', consider using Velcro on the bottom,
under the seat (most use contact cement - it's on to stay !), and possibly
on a back or side seam. Pockets (big) on the seat backs are VERY useful !
A serger will almost certainly be needed - the fabric is fairly
heavy, and piping adds to the thickness - many use piping all around
to dress up a bit, and help with wear.
If you want some help on fabric selection, and maybe some
insider tips, it will be worth a call to Paul Workman at Ohio Aircraft
Interiors ! Paul & his wife Pam have done some SUPERB restorations -
and won awards at Oshkosh - for their workmanship. Paul is a really nice
person, who will give you suggestions, and can order the fabric & foam
for you. (Of course, you COULD just send him the seat frames, and let
him do the whole job :-) - it might save $$$ in the long run) !
Paul Workman: 740-452-1636 (Zanesville, Ohio)
Many builders do the door panels in matching material, again
with pockets. The trick here is to cut a sheet of .016 aluminum (doesn't
have to be 'aircraft' aluminum - non-structural !) to fit over your door
frames. The fabric is then made oversize, wrapped around the aluminum &
glued on with spray contact cement (available a professional upholstry
shops). If you want to be light & strong, use 1/32" Lexan sheet instead
of aluminum - it's a lot easier to work, cheaper, and VERY strong (it
also makes GREAT strut fairings, etc.).
Also, don't forget the "curtain" - most builders put this over
the bulkheads at the back of the baggage area. Typically, they are
naugahyde with 1/4 to 1/2" of foam on the back, cut to fit the opening.
You can put 1" strips of aluminum on the back of the bulkhead to hold
the Velcro to hold the cutain in place, or, as Rick Ford did, use
lightweight automotive carpet on the roof, as well as the floor,
covering the front of the bulkead, and just Velcro to the carpet !!
The curtain cuts down on noise, keeps in the heat, and stops small cargo
from rolling down into the tail !!
Up here in 'the great white north, several of us have bought
complete interior kits from Peter Muehlegg at Trim-Air. He supplies
the seat covers all sewn up, ready to slide over the seats, the foam,
and also door panels, curtain, and even the carpeting !! The basic
kits are about $1,500 complete, and he will add about $200 if you send
him the frames & door panels and he finishes them for you. Of course,
shipping costs could mount if you're a long way away ...
Trim-Air (705) 437-1811 Beaverton, Ontario
Peter did the beige leatherette & fabric interior in our third
Rebel & we're very pleased with it !! He also made up a few extra things
for us, like small pockets in the wing roots, and fairings on the front
of the 'cage' tubes at the front of the cockpit. All of these were covered
in the same leatherette - finish it off nicely !! (we didn't use the
factory headliner).
Please let me know if these 'phone numbers are NOT current - I
WILL get you in touch somehow !!
Long winded, aren't I ??? !!!
Hope all this helps a bit ....
Best of luck to both of you - keep on plugging !!!
- it's WORTH IT !!!
(maybe we should make that the official Rebel slogan !)
.....bobp & Anna
-----------------------------------orig.---------------------------
At 02:35 PM 10/28/98 -0800, you wrote:
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id 0zZ5eO-00032X-00; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 22:55:01 -0500
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To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com> (Murphy Rebel)
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
Subject: Re: Upholstering
Message-Id: <E0zZ5eO-00032X-00@mail2.toronto.istar.net>
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 22:55:01 -0500
Oh, no !!! We all feel sorry for you !!! Please add our voices
to encourage 'the boss' to relent & let you get some professional help !!
(We've seen a few 'homemade' interiors !! ) No insult intended, it's
just a LOT of work - and often just not worth it. (a bit like insisting
on mining & smelting your own aluminum to build the Rebel !!! :-) )
Some things are just better left to a professional - most folks don't
build their own radios, or instruments ...
Well, if you're really determined, here's a few suggestions:
If possible, use 'aircraft quality' material - some of the automotive
and home material is NOT fire-resistant, AND gives off toxic smoke when
ignited !!
Several builders have used polyurethane foam (don't ask me about the
fire qualities ???). Good practice is to use 2 different densities of
foam (I think its measured in 'durometer hardness' ??) - in any case,
more & bigger bubbles = softer. (some high-tech description, eh ?? ;-) )
The idea is to use about 4" of the harder stuff on the bottom,
then 2" of the softer stuff. If you can possibly afford it, add another
inch of TEMPERFOAM on top. (comes under several names - this is the
stuff they use on the space shuttle - it adjusts to a custom fit when
softened by body heat - it is AMAZING !!). A square of temperfoam -
(pink, blue, & yellow laminated together) will run about $50 - $80/seat -
worth every penny !!
Now you're saying "that sounds like an AWFULLY HIGH seat !" -
try this measurement in your Rebel - you'll be surprised how much more
you can see outside, and how much easier it is to get in & out. Remember
that foam will flatten out a bit over time ...
If you make the cushions much thinner than this in the standard
Rebel, the seat belt attach brackets will raise your husband's voice
several octaves every time he gets in or out quickly !!!! :-)
We have used 'Naugahyde' (any synthetic leather - or the real thing !)
for the seat sides & bottoms - it is very durable, and washes up easily
in place. ALWAYS use cloth (synthetic ??) for the center part of the
seats, back & bottom. Naugahyde is durable, & attractive, but it is
'WAY TOO HOT in the summertime !!
If you do want 'removable', consider using Velcro on the bottom,
under the seat (most use contact cement - it's on to stay !), and possibly
on a back or side seam. Pockets (big) on the seat backs are VERY useful !
A serger will almost certainly be needed - the fabric is fairly
heavy, and piping adds to the thickness - many use piping all around
to dress up a bit, and help with wear.
If you want some help on fabric selection, and maybe some
insider tips, it will be worth a call to Paul Workman at Ohio Aircraft
Interiors ! Paul & his wife Pam have done some SUPERB restorations -
and won awards at Oshkosh - for their workmanship. Paul is a really nice
person, who will give you suggestions, and can order the fabric & foam
for you. (Of course, you COULD just send him the seat frames, and let
him do the whole job :-) - it might save $$$ in the long run) !
Paul Workman: 740-452-1636 (Zanesville, Ohio)
Many builders do the door panels in matching material, again
with pockets. The trick here is to cut a sheet of .016 aluminum (doesn't
have to be 'aircraft' aluminum - non-structural !) to fit over your door
frames. The fabric is then made oversize, wrapped around the aluminum &
glued on with spray contact cement (available a professional upholstry
shops). If you want to be light & strong, use 1/32" Lexan sheet instead
of aluminum - it's a lot easier to work, cheaper, and VERY strong (it
also makes GREAT strut fairings, etc.).
Also, don't forget the "curtain" - most builders put this over
the bulkheads at the back of the baggage area. Typically, they are
naugahyde with 1/4 to 1/2" of foam on the back, cut to fit the opening.
You can put 1" strips of aluminum on the back of the bulkhead to hold
the Velcro to hold the cutain in place, or, as Rick Ford did, use
lightweight automotive carpet on the roof, as well as the floor,
covering the front of the bulkead, and just Velcro to the carpet !!
The curtain cuts down on noise, keeps in the heat, and stops small cargo
from rolling down into the tail !!
Up here in 'the great white north, several of us have bought
complete interior kits from Peter Muehlegg at Trim-Air. He supplies
the seat covers all sewn up, ready to slide over the seats, the foam,
and also door panels, curtain, and even the carpeting !! The basic
kits are about $1,500 complete, and he will add about $200 if you send
him the frames & door panels and he finishes them for you. Of course,
shipping costs could mount if you're a long way away ...
Trim-Air (705) 437-1811 Beaverton, Ontario
Peter did the beige leatherette & fabric interior in our third
Rebel & we're very pleased with it !! He also made up a few extra things
for us, like small pockets in the wing roots, and fairings on the front
of the 'cage' tubes at the front of the cockpit. All of these were covered
in the same leatherette - finish it off nicely !! (we didn't use the
factory headliner).
Please let me know if these 'phone numbers are NOT current - I
WILL get you in touch somehow !!
Long winded, aren't I ??? !!!
Hope all this helps a bit ....
Best of luck to both of you - keep on plugging !!!
- it's WORTH IT !!!
(maybe we should make that the official Rebel slogan !)
.....bobp & Anna
-----------------------------------orig.---------------------------
At 02:35 PM 10/28/98 -0800, you wrote:
Hiya folks.
Dave has informed me that I am in charge of upholstering the seats...and no
sub-contracting allowed! OK, I have some basic sewing skills and can follow
a pattern and instructions, but the thought of padding and covering a metal
frame with virtually no experience makes me nervous. I am afraid that he is
putting together a plane that will look totally cool when complete (with no
small credit to his high standards) and then the seats will have that "made
with loving hands at home" look.
Naturally I want to choose a fabric that will wear well and a design that
allows peeling the covers off for a trip through the washer & dryer.
What have you done for your seats? What fabric did you choose? What type of
foam? What references did you use? What do you wish you had done
differently? Did you use a sewing machine or a serger?
Any and all suggestions/guidance appreciated.
Bert
#472R
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