[rebel-builders] trim control vs airspeed.

Walter Klatt · Post by **Walter Klatt** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:55 pm

What I am saying is the stick pressures with different throttle settings are
not sufficient to require changes in trim setting. In some airplanes that I
have flown, I have to trim differently for climb (full throttle) and
landing, as the stick (yoke) pressures are excessive if I do not.

I am not saying that there is no pressure, and I do know some that will trim
even a Rebel. But it is very slight in comparison to some other planes, and
not worth fiddling with for me. In fact, I never even notice it.

If I pull power back, I think I do push the nose down slightly to descend.
But since I actually have to think about it to tell you, just goes to show
how insignificant that pressure is. I can honestly tell you that I have not
adjusted my trim in flight for many months. That includes different
loadings, sometimes with a big baggage load.

And I have very little friction in my elevator control system. On the
ground, the elevator will fall to the stick forward position if unattended.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
tjhickey@iowatelecom.net
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 2:28 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] trim control vs airspeed.

Walter:
This confuses me.
You say that you do not have to change trim settings when you change
throttle settings.
Can you tell me what happens when you pull the power back from cruse? Does
the aircraft begin a descent and hold to the prior level cruse airspeed?
Or does it require you to push the nose over after you close the throttle?

Tim Hickey

-----Original Message-----
From: WALTER KLATT
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 11:26 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Re: [rebel-builders] And the saga
continues...Rebel #56 Build

If yours is not stable in pitch, you may need to adjust your elevator trim
slightly. With mine it is completely hands free, unless fuel/pax really
unbalanced, or non cruise flap setting. Can even fly feet off the rudder,
with the right power setting. My flap setting though, does change the roll
stability, I assume because of the prop wash, with full flaperons instead of

separate ailerons on the Rebel.

I actually like the near neutral stability in roll and pitch. I can take my
hands off the stick, to get a map, or sunglasses, and it will stay in
whatever attitude I had it. Also nice in steeper turns with little stick
pressure.

The only time I really have to pay attention to stability and rudder use, is

when I haul the canoe with Wayne's canoe loader. I am getting used to that
now, but it can be a little unnerving in turbulence.

I also really like not having to adjust my elevator trim every time I change

flap or throttle setting like in some airplanes.

I guess all airplanes are a little different, and there are compromises, but

sometimes it is just preference or what you are used to.

Walter

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tjhickey · Post by **tjhickey** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:55 pm

Thanks, Walter.

I have been thinking about this for several days, now. Perhaps the next time
you go flying you could do a little experiment for me. While in cruse, and
properly trimmed to maintain altitude, note the airspeed, and then pull the
power back to a high idle. If you have a lycoming, say maybe 1100 rpm. Don't
touch the stick. Note what happens, and then perhaps you can tell me what
the aircraft did.
I have a Zenith CH300, and if I did as above, the aircraft would drop the
nose slightly, pick up a little speed, then the nose would rise slightly,
and bleed off a little speed, and this would continue for two more
iterations, with the final result being a steady descent at the original
cruse speed.
I have a (used) century auto pilot (wing leveler with Nav-Tracker) that
works quite well. When established at 90 knots on a localizer, I can fly at
2100 rpm until I intercept the glide slope. Then all I have to do is to pull
the power back to about 1700 +or- and the aircraft noses over and maintains
90 knots while tracking the localizer. I manage the glide slope by adding or
removing a little power. All the while maintaining the 90 knots.
If you would prefer to respond off line, you may email me at
tjhickey@iowatelecom.net, or just give me a call at 319 463-7047, home, or
319 795-2684 cell.
Thanks.

Tim Hickey.

-----Original Message-----
From: Walter Klatt
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 4:49 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] trim control vs airspeed.

What I am saying is the stick pressures with different throttle settings are
not sufficient to require changes in trim setting. In some airplanes that I
have flown, I have to trim differently for climb (full throttle) and
landing, as the stick (yoke) pressures are excessive if I do not.

I am not saying that there is no pressure, and I do know some that will trim
even a Rebel. But it is very slight in comparison to some other planes, and
not worth fiddling with for me. In fact, I never even notice it.

If I pull power back, I think I do push the nose down slightly to descend.
But since I actually have to think about it to tell you, just goes to show
how insignificant that pressure is. I can honestly tell you that I have not
adjusted my trim in flight for many months. That includes different
loadings, sometimes with a big baggage load.

And I have very little friction in my elevator control system. On the
ground, the elevator will fall to the stick forward position if unattended.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
tjhickey@iowatelecom.net
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 2:28 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] trim control vs airspeed.

Walter:
This confuses me.
You say that you do not have to change trim settings when you change
throttle settings.
Can you tell me what happens when you pull the power back from cruse? Does
the aircraft begin a descent and hold to the prior level cruse airspeed?
Or does it require you to push the nose over after you close the throttle?

Tim Hickey

-----Original Message-----
From: WALTER KLATT
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 11:26 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Re: [rebel-builders] And the saga
continues...Rebel #56 Build

If yours is not stable in pitch, you may need to adjust your elevator trim
slightly. With mine it is completely hands free, unless fuel/pax really
unbalanced, or non cruise flap setting. Can even fly feet off the rudder,
with the right power setting. My flap setting though, does change the roll
stability, I assume because of the prop wash, with full flaperons instead of

separate ailerons on the Rebel.

I actually like the near neutral stability in roll and pitch. I can take my
hands off the stick, to get a map, or sunglasses, and it will stay in
whatever attitude I had it. Also nice in steeper turns with little stick
pressure.

The only time I really have to pay attention to stability and rudder use, is

when I haul the canoe with Wayne's canoe loader. I am getting used to that
now, but it can be a little unnerving in turbulence.

I also really like not having to adjust my elevator trim every time I change

flap or throttle setting like in some airplanes.

I guess all airplanes are a little different, and there are compromises, but

sometimes it is just preference or what you are used to.

Walter

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Walter Klatt · Post by **Walter Klatt** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:55 pm

I was at the lake when I saw your email on my BB. So on my way home, I tried
what you suggested. I pulled the power down to idle, and let go of the
stick. It immediately dived down until it exceeded my original cruise speed,
and then slowed down a bit as the nose started to lift a little. However, I
started that descent at only 2500 ASL, and it didn't take long to get down
to 1000 feet (saw 2000 fpm down at one point), so that was the end of that
test.

But it did seem like it had a little positive stability, and it may very
well have maintained the original cruise speed on descent, if I had a little
more altitude to work with. And remember, I am on amphibs, with a lot of
drag, so not a great glide ratio. I also have the larger float angle now, so
that probably doesn't help either.

Someone on wheels should do this test. It would likely be more meaningful
than an amphib.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
tjhickey@iowatelecom.net
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 1:46 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] trim control vs airspeed.

Thanks, Walter.

I have been thinking about this for several days, now. Perhaps the next time

you go flying you could do a little experiment for me. While in cruse, and
properly trimmed to maintain altitude, note the airspeed, and then pull the

power back to a high idle. If you have a lycoming, say maybe 1100 rpm. Don't

touch the stick. Note what happens, and then perhaps you can tell me what
the aircraft did.
I have a Zenith CH300, and if I did as above, the aircraft would drop the
nose slightly, pick up a little speed, then the nose would rise slightly,
and bleed off a little speed, and this would continue for two more
iterations, with the final result being a steady descent at the original
cruse speed.
I have a (used) century auto pilot (wing leveler with Nav-Tracker) that
works quite well. When established at 90 knots on a localizer, I can fly at
2100 rpm until I intercept the glide slope. Then all I have to do is to pull

the power back to about 1700 +or- and the aircraft noses over and maintains
90 knots while tracking the localizer. I manage the glide slope by adding or

removing a little power. All the while maintaining the 90 knots.
If you would prefer to respond off line, you may email me at
tjhickey@iowatelecom.net, or just give me a call at 319 463-7047, home, or
319 795-2684 cell.
Thanks.

Tim Hickey.

-----Original Message-----
From: Walter Klatt
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 4:49 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] trim control vs airspeed.

What I am saying is the stick pressures with different throttle settings are
not sufficient to require changes in trim setting. In some airplanes that I
have flown, I have to trim differently for climb (full throttle) and
landing, as the stick (yoke) pressures are excessive if I do not.

I am not saying that there is no pressure, and I do know some that will trim
even a Rebel. But it is very slight in comparison to some other planes, and
not worth fiddling with for me. In fact, I never even notice it.

If I pull power back, I think I do push the nose down slightly to descend.
But since I actually have to think about it to tell you, just goes to show
how insignificant that pressure is. I can honestly tell you that I have not
adjusted my trim in flight for many months. That includes different
loadings, sometimes with a big baggage load.

And I have very little friction in my elevator control system. On the
ground, the elevator will fall to the stick forward position if unattended.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
tjhickey@iowatelecom.net
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 2:28 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] trim control vs airspeed.

Walter:
This confuses me.
You say that you do not have to change trim settings when you change
throttle settings.
Can you tell me what happens when you pull the power back from cruse? Does
the aircraft begin a descent and hold to the prior level cruse airspeed?
Or does it require you to push the nose over after you close the throttle?

Tim Hickey

-----Original Message-----
From: WALTER KLATT
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 11:26 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Re: [rebel-builders] And the saga
continues...Rebel #56 Build

If yours is not stable in pitch, you may need to adjust your elevator trim
slightly. With mine it is completely hands free, unless fuel/pax really
unbalanced, or non cruise flap setting. Can even fly feet off the rudder,
with the right power setting. My flap setting though, does change the roll
stability, I assume because of the prop wash, with full flaperons instead of

separate ailerons on the Rebel.

I actually like the near neutral stability in roll and pitch. I can take my
hands off the stick, to get a map, or sunglasses, and it will stay in
whatever attitude I had it. Also nice in steeper turns with little stick
pressure.

The only time I really have to pay attention to stability and rudder use, is

when I haul the canoe with Wayne's canoe loader. I am getting used to that
now, but it can be a little unnerving in turbulence.

I also really like not having to adjust my elevator trim every time I change

flap or throttle setting like in some airplanes.

I guess all airplanes are a little different, and there are compromises, but

sometimes it is just preference or what you are used to.

Walter

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Craig Walls · Post by **Craig Walls** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:55 pm

I'm going up tomorrow. I will try this test. It'll fit in with my other "experimenting" nicely. Craig #207 10.4 hrs!

----- Original Message -----
From: Walter Klatt <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
Date: Sunday, September 11, 2011 5:21 pm
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] trim control vs airspeed.
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com

I was at the lake when I saw your email on my BB. So on my way
home, I tried
what you suggested. I pulled the power down to idle, and let go of the
stick. It immediately dived down until it exceeded my original
cruise speed,
and then slowed down a bit as the nose started to lift a little.
However, I
started that descent at only 2500 ASL, and it didn't take long to
get down
to 1000 feet (saw 2000 fpm down at one point), so that was the end
of that
test.

But it did seem like it had a little positive stability, and it
may very
well have maintained the original cruise speed on descent, if I
had a little
more altitude to work with. And remember, I am on amphibs, with a
lot of
drag, so not a great glide ratio. I also have the larger float
angle now, so
that probably doesn't help either.

Someone on wheels should do this test. It would likely be more
meaningfulthan an amphib.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
tjhickey@iowatelecom.net
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 1:46 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] trim control vs airspeed.

Thanks, Walter.

I have been thinking about this for several days, now. Perhaps the
next time

you go flying you could do a little experiment for me. While in
cruse, and
properly trimmed to maintain altitude, note the airspeed, and
then pull the

power back to a high idle. If you have a lycoming, say maybe 1100
rpm. Don't

touch the stick. Note what happens, and then perhaps you can tell
me what
the aircraft did.
I have a Zenith CH300, and if I did as above, the aircraft would
drop the
nose slightly, pick up a little speed, then the nose would rise
slightly,
and bleed off a little speed, and this would continue for two more
iterations, with the final result being a steady descent at the
original
cruse speed.
I have a (used) century auto pilot (wing leveler with Nav-Tracker)
that
works quite well. When established at 90 knots on a localizer, I
can fly at
2100 rpm until I intercept the glide slope. Then all I have to do
is to pull

the power back to about 1700 +or- and the aircraft noses over and
maintains
90 knots while tracking the localizer. I manage the glide slope by
adding or

removing a little power. All the while maintaining the 90 knots.
If you would prefer to respond off line, you may email me at
tjhickey@iowatelecom.net, or just give me a call at 319 463-7047,
home, or
319 795-2684 cell.
Thanks.

Tim Hickey.

-----Original Message-----
From: Walter Klatt
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 4:49 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] trim control vs airspeed.

What I am saying is the stick pressures with different throttle
settings are
not sufficient to require changes in trim setting. In some
airplanes that I
have flown, I have to trim differently for climb (full throttle) and
landing, as the stick (yoke) pressures are excessive if I do not.

I am not saying that there is no pressure, and I do know some that
will trim
even a Rebel. But it is very slight in comparison to some other
planes, and
not worth fiddling with for me. In fact, I never even notice it.

If I pull power back, I think I do push the nose down slightly to
descend.But since I actually have to think about it to tell you,
just goes to show
how insignificant that pressure is. I can honestly tell you that I
have not
adjusted my trim in flight for many months. That includes different
loadings, sometimes with a big baggage load.

And I have very little friction in my elevator control system. On the
ground, the elevator will fall to the stick forward position if
unattended.
Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
tjhickey@iowatelecom.net
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 2:28 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] trim control vs airspeed.

Walter:
This confuses me.
You say that you do not have to change trim settings when you change
throttle settings.
Can you tell me what happens when you pull the power back from
cruse? Does
the aircraft begin a descent and hold to the prior level cruse
airspeed?Or does it require you to push the nose over after you
close the throttle?

Tim Hickey

-----Original Message-----
From: WALTER KLATT
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 11:26 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Re: [rebel-builders] And the saga
continues...Rebel #56 Build

If yours is not stable in pitch, you may need to adjust your
elevator trim
slightly. With mine it is completely hands free, unless fuel/pax
reallyunbalanced, or non cruise flap setting. Can even fly feet
off the rudder,
with the right power setting. My flap setting though, does change
the roll
stability, I assume because of the prop wash, with full flaperons
instead of

separate ailerons on the Rebel.

I actually like the near neutral stability in roll and pitch. I
can take my
hands off the stick, to get a map, or sunglasses, and it will stay in
whatever attitude I had it. Also nice in steeper turns with little
stickpressure.

The only time I really have to pay attention to stability and
rudder use, is

when I haul the canoe with Wayne's canoe loader. I am getting used
to that
now, but it can be a little unnerving in turbulence.

I also really like not having to adjust my elevator trim every
time I change

flap or throttle setting like in some airplanes.

I guess all airplanes are a little different, and there are
compromises, but

sometimes it is just preference or what you are used to.

Walter

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Walter Klatt · Post by **Walter Klatt** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:55 pm

So Craig, how is the flight testing going? Have you done your climb test
yet? My guess would be 2200 fpm solo?

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Craig
Walls
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 6:53 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: RE: [rebel-builders] trim control vs airspeed.

I'm going up tomorrow. I will try this test. It'll fit in with my other
"experimenting" nicely. Craig #207 10.4 hrs!

----- Original Message -----
From: Walter Klatt <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
Date: Sunday, September 11, 2011 5:21 pm
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] trim control vs airspeed.
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com

I was at the lake when I saw your email on my BB. So on my way
home, I tried
what you suggested. I pulled the power down to idle, and let go of the
stick. It immediately dived down until it exceeded my original
cruise speed,
and then slowed down a bit as the nose started to lift a little.
However, I
started that descent at only 2500 ASL, and it didn't take long to
get down
to 1000 feet (saw 2000 fpm down at one point), so that was the end
of that
test.

But it did seem like it had a little positive stability, and it
may very
well have maintained the original cruise speed on descent, if I
had a little
more altitude to work with. And remember, I am on amphibs, with a
lot of
drag, so not a great glide ratio. I also have the larger float
angle now, so
that probably doesn't help either.

Someone on wheels should do this test. It would likely be more
meaningfulthan an amphib.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
tjhickey@iowatelecom.net
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 1:46 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] trim control vs airspeed.

Thanks, Walter.

I have been thinking about this for several days, now. Perhaps the
next time

you go flying you could do a little experiment for me. While in
cruse, and
properly trimmed to maintain altitude, note the airspeed, and
then pull the

power back to a high idle. If you have a lycoming, say maybe 1100
rpm. Don't

touch the stick. Note what happens, and then perhaps you can tell
me what
the aircraft did.
I have a Zenith CH300, and if I did as above, the aircraft would
drop the
nose slightly, pick up a little speed, then the nose would rise
slightly,
and bleed off a little speed, and this would continue for two more
iterations, with the final result being a steady descent at the
original
cruse speed.
I have a (used) century auto pilot (wing leveler with Nav-Tracker)
that
works quite well. When established at 90 knots on a localizer, I
can fly at
2100 rpm until I intercept the glide slope. Then all I have to do
is to pull

the power back to about 1700 +or- and the aircraft noses over and
maintains
90 knots while tracking the localizer. I manage the glide slope by
adding or

removing a little power. All the while maintaining the 90 knots.
If you would prefer to respond off line, you may email me at
tjhickey@iowatelecom.net, or just give me a call at 319 463-7047,
home, or
319 795-2684 cell.
Thanks.

Tim Hickey.

-----Original Message-----
From: Walter Klatt
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 4:49 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] trim control vs airspeed.

What I am saying is the stick pressures with different throttle
settings are
not sufficient to require changes in trim setting. In some
airplanes that I
have flown, I have to trim differently for climb (full throttle) and
landing, as the stick (yoke) pressures are excessive if I do not.

I am not saying that there is no pressure, and I do know some that
will trim
even a Rebel. But it is very slight in comparison to some other
planes, and
not worth fiddling with for me. In fact, I never even notice it.

If I pull power back, I think I do push the nose down slightly to
descend.But since I actually have to think about it to tell you,
just goes to show
how insignificant that pressure is. I can honestly tell you that I
have not
adjusted my trim in flight for many months. That includes different
loadings, sometimes with a big baggage load.

And I have very little friction in my elevator control system. On the
ground, the elevator will fall to the stick forward position if
unattended.
Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
tjhickey@iowatelecom.net
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 2:28 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] trim control vs airspeed.

Walter:
This confuses me.
You say that you do not have to change trim settings when you change
throttle settings.
Can you tell me what happens when you pull the power back from
cruse? Does
the aircraft begin a descent and hold to the prior level cruse
airspeed?Or does it require you to push the nose over after you
close the throttle?

Tim Hickey

-----Original Message-----
From: WALTER KLATT
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 11:26 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Re: [rebel-builders] And the saga
continues...Rebel #56 Build

If yours is not stable in pitch, you may need to adjust your
elevator trim
slightly. With mine it is completely hands free, unless fuel/pax
reallyunbalanced, or non cruise flap setting. Can even fly feet
off the rudder,
with the right power setting. My flap setting though, does change
the roll
stability, I assume because of the prop wash, with full flaperons
instead of

separate ailerons on the Rebel.

I actually like the near neutral stability in roll and pitch. I
can take my
hands off the stick, to get a map, or sunglasses, and it will stay in
whatever attitude I had it. Also nice in steeper turns with little
stickpressure.

The only time I really have to pay attention to stability and
rudder use, is

when I haul the canoe with Wayne's canoe loader. I am getting used
to that
now, but it can be a little unnerving in turbulence.

I also really like not having to adjust my elevator trim every
time I change

flap or throttle setting like in some airplanes.

I guess all airplanes are a little different, and there are
compromises, but

sometimes it is just preference or what you are used to.

Walter

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Craig Walls · Post by **Craig Walls** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:55 pm

Walter,
I haven't pushed the limits at all, steep turns, full power climbs and descents, etc. I have been following the FAA test flight program pretty much. I have seen 1400 fpm with full tanks, me, and 60 lbs in the tail. That was at 75 mph. I'll get some numbers within a few weeks. We are going to Reno this coming week for the air races so no flying :( CW

----- Original Message -----
From: Walter Klatt <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
Date: Sunday, September 11, 2011 8:35 pm
Subject: RE: RE: [rebel-builders] trim control vs airspeed.
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com

So Craig, how is the flight testing going? Have you done your
climb test
yet? My guess would be 2200 fpm solo?

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf
Of Craig
Walls
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 6:53 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: RE: [rebel-builders] trim control vs airspeed.

I'm going up tomorrow. I will try this test. It'll fit in with
my other
"experimenting" nicely. Craig #207 10.4 hrs!

----- Original Message -----
From: Walter Klatt <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
Date: Sunday, September 11, 2011 5:21 pm
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] trim control vs airspeed.
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com

I was at the lake when I saw your email on my BB. So on my way
home, I tried
what you suggested. I pulled the power down to idle, and let go
of the
stick. It immediately dived down until it exceeded my original
cruise speed,
and then slowed down a bit as the nose started to lift a little.
However, I
started that descent at only 2500 ASL, and it didn't take long
to
get down
to 1000 feet (saw 2000 fpm down at one point), so that was the
end
of that
test.

But it did seem like it had a little positive stability, and it
may very
well have maintained the original cruise speed on descent, if I
had a little
more altitude to work with. And remember, I am on amphibs, with
a
lot of
drag, so not a great glide ratio. I also have the larger float
angle now, so
that probably doesn't help either.

Someone on wheels should do this test. It would likely be more
meaningfulthan an amphib.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On
Behalf Of
tjhickey@iowatelecom.net
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 1:46 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] trim control vs airspeed.

Thanks, Walter.

I have been thinking about this for several days, now. Perhaps
the
next time

you go flying you could do a little experiment for me. While in
cruse, and
properly trimmed to maintain altitude, note the airspeed, and
then pull the

power back to a high idle. If you have a lycoming, say maybe
1100
rpm. Don't

touch the stick. Note what happens, and then perhaps you can
tell
me what
the aircraft did.
I have a Zenith CH300, and if I did as above, the aircraft would
drop the
nose slightly, pick up a little speed, then the nose would rise
slightly,
and bleed off a little speed, and this would continue for two
more
iterations, with the final result being a steady descent at the
original
cruse speed.
I have a (used) century auto pilot (wing leveler with Nav-
Tracker)
that
works quite well. When established at 90 knots on a localizer, I
can fly at
2100 rpm until I intercept the glide slope. Then all I have to
do
is to pull

the power back to about 1700 +or- and the aircraft noses over
and
maintains
90 knots while tracking the localizer. I manage the glide slope
by
adding or

removing a little power. All the while maintaining the 90 knots.
If you would prefer to respond off line, you may email me at
tjhickey@iowatelecom.net, or just give me a call at 319 463-
7047,
home, or
319 795-2684 cell.
Thanks.

Tim Hickey.

-----Original Message-----
From: Walter Klatt
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 4:49 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] trim control vs airspeed.

What I am saying is the stick pressures with different throttle
settings are
not sufficient to require changes in trim setting. In some
airplanes that I
have flown, I have to trim differently for climb (full throttle) and
landing, as the stick (yoke) pressures are excessive if I do not.

I am not saying that there is no pressure, and I do know some
that
will trim
even a Rebel. But it is very slight in comparison to some other
planes, and
not worth fiddling with for me. In fact, I never even notice it.

If I pull power back, I think I do push the nose down slightly
to
descend.But since I actually have to think about it to tell you,
just goes to show
how insignificant that pressure is. I can honestly tell you that
I
have not
adjusted my trim in flight for many months. That includes different
loadings, sometimes with a big baggage load.

And I have very little friction in my elevator control system.
On the
ground, the elevator will fall to the stick forward position if
unattended.
Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On
Behalf Of
tjhickey@iowatelecom.net
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 2:28 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] trim control vs airspeed.

Walter:
This confuses me.
You say that you do not have to change trim settings when you change
throttle settings.
Can you tell me what happens when you pull the power back from
cruse? Does
the aircraft begin a descent and hold to the prior level cruse
airspeed?Or does it require you to push the nose over after you
close the throttle?

Tim Hickey

-----Original Message-----
From: WALTER KLATT
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 11:26 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Re: [rebel-builders] And the saga
continues...Rebel #56 Build

If yours is not stable in pitch, you may need to adjust your
elevator trim
slightly. With mine it is completely hands free, unless fuel/pax
reallyunbalanced, or non cruise flap setting. Can even fly feet
off the rudder,
with the right power setting. My flap setting though, does
change
the roll
stability, I assume because of the prop wash, with full
flaperons
instead of

separate ailerons on the Rebel.

I actually like the near neutral stability in roll and pitch. I
can take my
hands off the stick, to get a map, or sunglasses, and it will
stay in
whatever attitude I had it. Also nice in steeper turns with
little
stickpressure.

The only time I really have to pay attention to stability and
rudder use, is

when I haul the canoe with Wayne's canoe loader. I am getting
used
to that
now, but it can be a little unnerving in turbulence.

I also really like not having to adjust my elevator trim every
time I change

flap or throttle setting like in some airplanes.

I guess all airplanes are a little different, and there are
compromises, but

sometimes it is just preference or what you are used to.

Walter

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