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[rebel-builders] RE: Roof plate (protection plastic issue).

Converted from Wildcat! database. (read only)
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Ken

[rebel-builders] RE: Roof plate (protection plastic issue).

Post by Ken » Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:51 pm

FWIW my thoughts are that the upper skin must resist yawing forces fed
up through the engine mounts. And the similar acting forces when one
wing tries to pass the other in yawing conditions or in turbulence. If
you think of the forward and aft wing attach bulkheads (the 4 wing
attach points) as a square parallel to the ground - these would be the
forces trying to push it out of square with one side forward or aft of
the other. Yes the attached wings stabilize the 'square' left to right
but not forward and aft. However the stock setup with doublers around
the eyebrow windows appears up to the task. Heavy engines and floats
probably aggravate the situation somewhat though.

A somewhat similar situation exists on the cage when the aircraft lands
on one wheel and tries to twist the airframe under the wings. The term
used for that is 'racking' or 'wracking'? where the forces try to push
one side of the cage higher. In that example, the corner gussets on the
cage largely resist those forces. But any excessive 'racking' forces
coming up through the rear landing gear and especially the rear float
attachment points would tend to distort the skin and fuselage corner rounds.

Ken

On 6/12/2011 6:09 AM, schaumr@dcsol.com wrote:
Marc,
From my study of the plans, the strength of the upper cabin really only
comes together after installation of the wings. Think about it: once the very
rigid wings (and their spars) are connected to the front and back carry-
throughs (in the cabin), and the wing struts are attached, the whole unit is
really 'locked' into place laterally and longitudinally. The rest of the aircraft
simply hangs off this structure.

This is why the already flimsy roof skin can accept so many large windows to
begin with. Thicker roof skins will only add unneccessary weight, not
strength. (That said, if you add the full complement of windows, a lot of that
extra weight will end up being cut out in the end!)

There's a bit of rigidity/strength that comes from the overhead channel, but
that is mostly there to keep the shape of the roof and to support the loads
from the flap mechanism (cable).

My 2 cents. Curious if others agree/disagree.

Rob

Rebel 786



On 6/11/2011 5:25 AM, Marc van Hulzen wrote to Marc van Hulzen:

-> Hello all,
->
-> I have to replace my rooftap plate after all.
-> The problem with the protection plastic can't be solved without serious
-> damage on the plate. It seems the plastic had to much UV-radiation in all
-> these years.
->
-> Does anybody know if it is usefull to make this topplate thicker then
original?
-> Original the topplate is 0.020". A 0.025"or even a 0.032" plate does make
the
-> top stiffer ecspecially when placing windows. (or do the windows make the
-> topplate stiffer?).
->
-> Any thoughts?
->
-> Kind regards,
->
-> Marc van Hulzen
-> PH-REB

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snowyrvr

[rebel-builders] RE: Roof plate (protection plastic issue).

Post by snowyrvr » Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:51 pm

One more point on the roof-the window material is generally thicker and has more authority than your 020 roof skin. I used the piece of rolled up lexan (had been rolled for 15 yrs!) and the window pieces had a slight bow...so does my roof where they went in. Might be better to use flat stock to start with! At least once I'm on the amphibs the roof won't be so prominent! Craig

--- bransom@dcsol.com wrote:

From: bransom@dcsol.com
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] RE: Roof plate (protection plastic issue).
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 09:17:37 -0800

Have you tried this for removal of the UV effected protection plastic:
For a big flat piece like the roof skin, lay it on the floor -- cold concrete is
best as it will reduce evaporation. Paint it with Goof-Off and then cover with
aluminum foil. Maybe throw a piece of old plywood on top to keep it all
sandwiched down. After soaking it that way for 3-4 hours the plastic should
either slide or scrape off easily. I use a piece of 032 aluminum sheet with
rounded corners to help scrape some areas.

Not much of a point but I thought I'd throw in that lexan window material is
quite a bit heavier than .020 or 032 aluminum. (Adding windows is worth it,
but it is a weight gain.)

-Ben

On 6/12/2011 2:09 AM, schaumr wrote to Marc van Hulzen:
Marc,

From my study of the plans, the strength of the upper cabin really only
comes together after installation of the wings. Think about it: once the
very
rigid wings (and their spars) are connected to the front and back carry-
throughs (in the cabin), and the wing struts are attached, the whole unit is
really 'locked' into place laterally and longitudinally. The rest of the
aircraft
simply hangs off this structure.

This is why the already flimsy roof skin can accept so many large windows
to
begin with. Thicker roof skins will only add unneccessary weight, not
strength. (That said, if you add the full complement of windows, a lot of
that
extra weight will end up being cut out in the end!)

There's a bit of rigidity/strength that comes from the overhead channel,
but
that is mostly there to keep the shape of the roof and to support the loads
from the flap mechanism (cable).

My 2 cents. Curious if others agree/disagree.

Rob

Rebel 786



On 6/11/2011 5:25 AM, Marc van Hulzen wrote to Marc van Hulzen:

-> Hello all,
->
-> I have to replace my rooftap plate after all.
-> The problem with the protection plastic can't be solved without serious
-> damage on the plate. It seems the plastic had to much UV-radiation in
all
-> these years.
->
-> Does anybody know if it is usefull to make this topplate thicker then
original?
-> Original the topplate is 0.020". A 0.025"or even a 0.032" plate does
make
the
-> top stiffer ecspecially when placing windows. (or do the windows make
the
-> topplate stiffer?).
->
-> Any thoughts?
->
-> Kind regards,
->
-> Marc van Hulzen
-> PH-REB


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-----------------------------------------------------------------








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Bob Andrews

[rebel-builders] RE: Roof plate (protection plastic issue).

Post by Bob Andrews » Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:51 pm

Sounds like a lot of work to me ... I would just buy another section of .020
or .025 6061-T6 flat stock (from Aircraft Spruce or where ever), transfer
the holes using cleco'ing as you go. When all the holes are in, scrap what
you had, and press on.

Cheers, Bob 612e

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
bransom@dcsol.com
Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2011 10:18 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] RE: Roof plate (protection plastic issue).

Have you tried this for removal of the UV effected protection plastic:
For a big flat piece like the roof skin, lay it on the floor -- cold
concrete is
best as it will reduce evaporation. Paint it with Goof-Off and then cover
with
aluminum foil. Maybe throw a piece of old plywood on top to keep it all
sandwiched down. After soaking it that way for 3-4 hours the plastic should
either slide or scrape off easily. I use a piece of 032 aluminum sheet with
rounded corners to help scrape some areas.

Not much of a point but I thought I'd throw in that lexan window material is

quite a bit heavier than .020 or 032 aluminum. (Adding windows is worth it,

but it is a weight gain.)

-Ben

On 6/12/2011 2:09 AM, schaumr wrote to Marc van Hulzen:
Marc,

From my study of the plans, the strength of the upper cabin really only
comes together after installation of the wings. Think about it: once the
very
rigid wings (and their spars) are connected to the front and back carry-
throughs (in the cabin), and the wing struts are attached, the whole unit
is
really 'locked' into place laterally and longitudinally. The rest of the
aircraft
simply hangs off this structure.

This is why the already flimsy roof skin can accept so many large windows
to
begin with. Thicker roof skins will only add unneccessary weight, not
strength. (That said, if you add the full complement of windows, a lot of
that
extra weight will end up being cut out in the end!)

There's a bit of rigidity/strength that comes from the overhead channel,
but
that is mostly there to keep the shape of the roof and to support the
loads
from the flap mechanism (cable).

My 2 cents. Curious if others agree/disagree.

Rob

Rebel 786



On 6/11/2011 5:25 AM, Marc van Hulzen wrote to Marc van Hulzen:

-> Hello all,
->
-> I have to replace my rooftap plate after all.
-> The problem with the protection plastic can't be solved without serious
-> damage on the plate. It seems the plastic had to much UV-radiation in
all
-> these years.
->
-> Does anybody know if it is usefull to make this topplate thicker then
original?
-> Original the topplate is 0.020". A 0.025"or even a 0.032" plate does
make
the
-> top stiffer ecspecially when placing windows. (or do the windows make
the
-> topplate stiffer?).
->
-> Any thoughts?
->
-> Kind regards,
->
-> Marc van Hulzen
-> PH-REB


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-----------------------------------------------------------------








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Marc & Janine

[rebel-builders] RE: Roof plate (protection plastic issue).

Post by Marc & Janine » Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:51 pm

Thank you all for your replies.
It's going to be a slightly thicker plate (0.025")

Regards,

Marc

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] Namens Bob Andrews
Verzonden: maandag 13 juni 2011 4:51
Aan: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Onderwerp: RE: [rebel-builders] RE: Roof plate (protection plastic issue).

Sounds like a lot of work to me ... I would just buy another section of .020
or .025 6061-T6 flat stock (from Aircraft Spruce or where ever), transfer
the holes using cleco'ing as you go. When all the holes are in, scrap what
you had, and press on.

Cheers, Bob 612e

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
bransom@dcsol.com
Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2011 10:18 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] RE: Roof plate (protection plastic issue).

Have you tried this for removal of the UV effected protection plastic:
For a big flat piece like the roof skin, lay it on the floor -- cold
concrete is
best as it will reduce evaporation. Paint it with Goof-Off and then cover
with
aluminum foil. Maybe throw a piece of old plywood on top to keep it all
sandwiched down. After soaking it that way for 3-4 hours the plastic should
either slide or scrape off easily. I use a piece of 032 aluminum sheet with
rounded corners to help scrape some areas.

Not much of a point but I thought I'd throw in that lexan window material is

quite a bit heavier than .020 or 032 aluminum. (Adding windows is worth it,

but it is a weight gain.)

-Ben

On 6/12/2011 2:09 AM, schaumr wrote to Marc van Hulzen:
Marc,

From my study of the plans, the strength of the upper cabin really only
comes together after installation of the wings. Think about it: once the
very
rigid wings (and their spars) are connected to the front and back carry-
throughs (in the cabin), and the wing struts are attached, the whole unit
is
really 'locked' into place laterally and longitudinally. The rest of the
aircraft
simply hangs off this structure.

This is why the already flimsy roof skin can accept so many large windows
to
begin with. Thicker roof skins will only add unneccessary weight, not
strength. (That said, if you add the full complement of windows, a lot of
that
extra weight will end up being cut out in the end!)

There's a bit of rigidity/strength that comes from the overhead channel,
but
that is mostly there to keep the shape of the roof and to support the
loads
from the flap mechanism (cable).

My 2 cents. Curious if others agree/disagree.

Rob

Rebel 786



On 6/11/2011 5:25 AM, Marc van Hulzen wrote to Marc van Hulzen:

-> Hello all,
->
-> I have to replace my rooftap plate after all.
-> The problem with the protection plastic can't be solved without serious
-> damage on the plate. It seems the plastic had to much UV-radiation in
all
-> these years.
->
-> Does anybody know if it is usefull to make this topplate thicker then
original?
-> Original the topplate is 0.020". A 0.025"or even a 0.032" plate does
make
the
-> top stiffer ecspecially when placing windows. (or do the windows make
the
-> topplate stiffer?).
->
-> Any thoughts?
->
-> Kind regards,
->
-> Marc van Hulzen
-> PH-REB


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