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fuel leak

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Wayne G. O'Shea

fuel leak

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:08 pm

Brian, have you pulled the fairings to see where the leak is coming from
yet?? May seem like a dumb question BUT I just had a customer that I <COULD>
have taken for hundreds of dollars to fix his leaking fuel tank when all it
was, was a flare fitting that had cracked open on his outlet fitting and it
was leaching all around the fairing and rear spar area!! Have also seen the
same thing with sight gauge hoses that have dried out, cracked or got loose
and after flying for years on half tanks most of the time the leak amazingly
starts on first fill up in the spring! It's amazing where fuel will leach
too and it even seems to go uphill at times!!!

If you have to attack a leak, I would think that it has to be something
small if it wasn't leaking before (and of course you have filled the tanks
full before!). IF just leaching out slowly, the light bulb in the tank won't
find it for you. IF it is a pouring leak a chandelier bulb inside the tank,
in a dark hanger with the wing tip off, may give you a "projector beam" out
of the leak (DON"T Break the bulb!!).

I always fix the leaks from the outside, as it makes no sense at all to me
to cut a big hole in the tank and add a hundred more rivets that could leak.
The access hole should have a doubler on it after you done, BUT I have seen
many that do not without incident (but I don't condone the laziness from
proper construction methods!). The other option is to make a plate a
thickness or two heavier (ie .025 or .032) that picks up the entire area
between ribs, rear spar and stringer and then rivet it into the original
rivet holes. If your thoughts are going this way tape a piece of poster
board over the area BEFORE you cut anything and using a sharp point poke a
hole through the poster board into the mandrel hole on every rivet. This
will give you an exact pattern to make your new panel with, that will rivet
right into place. Then cut out your access hole and drill out the rivets to
put down the panel when your done. You will won't to be 100% sure that you
have the leak licked though before riveting the plates on if going with this
method though, or you will be drilling them back off!!

Cheers,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca


----- Original Message -----
From: "brian amendala" <n667ba@hotmail.com>
To: <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:31 PM
Subject: fuel leak


Hi Wayne, the right tank in my rebel just started leaking. we have no
access
holes in the tank and are wondering what exactly we should do. I've heard
guys cut access holes behind the tank and seal it from the outside, but I
don't know if this is a good idea. do you have any suggestions on the
placement of the holes and sizes? Also, when you reattach the covers do
you
need to use a doubler, or can you just screw a plate over the top of the
hole? Our fuel tanks have 52 thousands of aluminum around them. We left
the wing skin in place and riveted the tank skin over it. If you have any
suggestions I would appreciate them. Thanks, Brian

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brian amendala

fuel leak

Post by brian amendala » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:08 pm

Hey Wayne, thanks for your help. A few more questions, however. First if I
do cut an access hole can I use screws to put it back together? I would
like to keep it accessable if possible. And if I can use screws what type
should I use (self tapping, tapped, nut plates?) How about something like
the float access hole covers? Thanks, Brian

From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
Reply-To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
CC: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: fuel leak
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 17:58:38 -0400

Brian, have you pulled the fairings to see where the leak is coming from
yet?? May seem like a dumb question BUT I just had a customer that I
<COULD>
have taken for hundreds of dollars to fix his leaking fuel tank when all it
was, was a flare fitting that had cracked open on his outlet fitting and it
was leaching all around the fairing and rear spar area!! Have also seen the
same thing with sight gauge hoses that have dried out, cracked or got loose
and after flying for years on half tanks most of the time the leak
amazingly
starts on first fill up in the spring! It's amazing where fuel will leach
too and it even seems to go uphill at times!!!

If you have to attack a leak, I would think that it has to be something
small if it wasn't leaking before (and of course you have filled the tanks
full before!). IF just leaching out slowly, the light bulb in the tank
won't
find it for you. IF it is a pouring leak a chandelier bulb inside the tank,
in a dark hanger with the wing tip off, may give you a "projector beam" out
of the leak (DON"T Break the bulb!!).

I always fix the leaks from the outside, as it makes no sense at all to me
to cut a big hole in the tank and add a hundred more rivets that could
leak.
The access hole should have a doubler on it after you done, BUT I have seen
many that do not without incident (but I don't condone the laziness from
proper construction methods!). The other option is to make a plate a
thickness or two heavier (ie .025 or .032) that picks up the entire area
between ribs, rear spar and stringer and then rivet it into the original
rivet holes. If your thoughts are going this way tape a piece of poster
board over the area BEFORE you cut anything and using a sharp point poke a
hole through the poster board into the mandrel hole on every rivet. This
will give you an exact pattern to make your new panel with, that will rivet
right into place. Then cut out your access hole and drill out the rivets to
put down the panel when your done. You will won't to be 100% sure that you
have the leak licked though before riveting the plates on if going with
this
method though, or you will be drilling them back off!!

Cheers,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca


----- Original Message -----
From: "brian amendala" <n667ba@hotmail.com>
To: <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:31 PM
Subject: fuel leak


Hi Wayne, the right tank in my rebel just started leaking. we have no
access
holes in the tank and are wondering what exactly we should do. I've
heard
guys cut access holes behind the tank and seal it from the outside, but
I
don't know if this is a good idea. do you have any suggestions on the
placement of the holes and sizes? Also, when you reattach the covers do
you
need to use a doubler, or can you just screw a plate over the top of the
hole? Our fuel tanks have 52 thousands of aluminum around them. We
left
the wing skin in place and riveted the tank skin over it. If you have
any
suggestions I would appreciate them. Thanks, Brian

_________________________________________________________________
Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com


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brian amendala

fuel leak

Post by brian amendala » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:46 pm

Wayne, I have completely sealed the bottom of the tank and still have a
leak. Right now I am slowly filling the tank 1/2 gallon at a time and
wating for the leak to start. Have you ever seen a leak other than at the
top of the fuel. In other words has there ever been a leak, say at the
bottom of the tank, but you it was so small that it needed pressure (more
fuel) to push it out? Or will the fuel always drain until it reaches the
leak?

Oh, we've decided if you promise to fix our leak for free we'll buy you
the airline ticket out!! And maybe we'll even throw in a meal or two!!

Thank Brian




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Murray and Carol Cherkas

fuel leak

Post by Murray and Carol Cherkas » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:46 pm

Hi Brian

Very frustrating!

I had but one leak, it was a cracked rivet body and the crack was towards
the spar so I couldn't see it until of course I put gas in it and there was
the leak. Thankfully not hard to fix.

GOOD LUCK
Murray Cherkas



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Wayne G. O'Shea

fuel leak

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:46 pm

Brian, I'm told I can't go alone!!

We're a family of FIVE (Me, wife, 20yr old son, 18 & 15yr old daughters) and
we all downhill ski. I haven't skied the Whistler area since I was 15 (26
years ago!) and the kids have only been 20 feet into BC under the great
divide log "gate" that's down the road from the Lake Louise tourist trap.
Family says I can't go alone as they are concerned for my well being and
will settle for a nice hillside chalet to patiently wait for my return at
each days end, after I've worked on your wing! IF you can deal with that
expense, we will buy our own meals!! :>)))

Seriously, have you thought of hull insurance and a match yet?? I'm sure
after all this agravation that this approach has crossed your mind at least
once by now!!

Seriously, seriously, where is the leaking fuel coming out. Is that double
lower skin causing the problem with leakage out a rivet and between the wing
skin and tank skin in your set up? Have you installed the top skin already,
or are you lucky and are finding a leak prior to plunking the tip lid back
on?? YES, I can see a leaking (leaching) rivet, that possibly has a cracked
body, only leaking with enough pressure head above it to push the fuel out.

Wayne


----- Original Message -----
From: "brian amendala" <n667ba@hotmail.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 10:13 PM
Subject: fuel leak


Wayne, I have completely sealed the bottom of the tank and still have a
leak. Right now I am slowly filling the tank 1/2 gallon at a time and
wating for the leak to start. Have you ever seen a leak other than at the
top of the fuel. In other words has there ever been a leak, say at the
bottom of the tank, but you it was so small that it needed pressure (more
fuel) to push it out? Or will the fuel always drain until it reaches the
leak?

Oh, we've decided if you promise to fix our leak for free we'll buy you
the airline ticket out!! And maybe we'll even throw in a meal or two!!

Thank Brian




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LisaFly99

fuel leak

Post by LisaFly99 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:46 pm

In a message dated 2/12/03 9:14:41 PM Central Standard Time,
n667ba@hotmail.com writes:
I have completely sealed the bottom of the tank and still have a
leak. Right now I am slowly filling the tank 1/2 gallon at a time and
wating for the leak to start. Have you ever seen a leak other than at the
top of the fuel. In other words has there ever been a leak, say at the
bottom of the tank, but you it was so small that it needed pressure (more
fuel) to push it out? Or will the fuel always drain until it reaches the
leak?
Sounds like a cracked rivet. Had one that didn't show up with a 1/4 tank
full. Just started to see something at the 1/2 way full. Top it off and it
would drip so slowly it was almost evaporated on the bench before the next
drop fell. Just needed more head pressure to come alive.
Phil&Lisa Smith
#460R
N414D



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brian amendala

fuel leak

Post by brian amendala » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:56 pm

Wayne,

Well 3 months later and I believe I have found the leak! After re-pro
sealing the entire tank with no success, I decided to remove the water drain
and pro-seal completely over the hole. And.... no leak. So I'm wondering,
since we have both skins still on our wing, could this pose a problem. I
was looking back through the manual and it seems to show the water drain
riveted right to the bottom skin (outside). We rivited from the inside,
could this pose a problem? Does the water drain have a flange that sticks
through the tank? If so do you think the extra .020 of wing skin could stop
it short of where it is supposed to be?

Thanks Brian




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Wayne G. O'Shea

fuel leak

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:56 pm

Brian don't follow how removing the drain and covering stopped the leak,
unless you mean you drilled off the fitting (and not simply removed the
threaded drain) and prosealed over all the rivet holes and large drain hole.

The drain fitting should have gone on the outside of the tank. Not to make
it sit through the hole enough, but to make sure the water can get out.
Putting it on the inside could quite possibly let 1/8" + deep water sit in
your tank and it won't drain out as the rivet flange is above the tank
floor. Ideally you really should "dish" the tank skin down and install the
fitting to the outside, but this would case some problems with opening the
window so you can't.

IF I'm missing something and you have the fitting on the outside and only
riveted from the inside then it is VERY possible that the fuel is running
between the skins if there is no proseal in there. The fuel would go through
the tank hole to the drain fitting but of course it can now run between the
skins into the wing structure!

Wayne


----- Original Message -----
From: "brian amendala" <n667ba@hotmail.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 8:53 PM
Subject: fuel leak

Wayne,

Well 3 months later and I believe I have found the leak! After re-pro
sealing the entire tank with no success, I decided to remove the water
drain
and pro-seal completely over the hole. And.... no leak. So I'm
wondering,
since we have both skins still on our wing, could this pose a problem. I
was looking back through the manual and it seems to show the water drain
riveted right to the bottom skin (outside). We rivited from the inside,
could this pose a problem? Does the water drain have a flange that sticks
through the tank? If so do you think the extra .020 of wing skin could
stop
it short of where it is supposed to be?

Thanks Brian




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Alan Hepburn

Fuel Leak

Post by Alan Hepburn » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:23 pm

Well, I just got back from playing ring around the volcano on a
Transatlantic trip. Delivered four airplanes (not Murphies) safely to Paris
on schedule. So no I'm trying to figure whether to slosh my leaky tank with
Proseal diluted with 50:50 toluene/MEK, or de-rivet the rear lower skin at
the TE and try to localize the leak. What would you do?

Al

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
G. O'Shea
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 5:27 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rebel / Elite - Dipstick clearance on
Dynafocal mounts

Hey Al !!! Where the hell ya been??? ;O)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <g.alan.hepburn@gmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 4:46 PM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Rebel / Elite - Dipstick clearance on
Dynafocal mounts

My mount was wrong and Murphy replaced it - but that's about 5 years ago.

Al Hepburn

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Wayne
G. O'Shea
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 11:45 PM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: [rebel-builders] Rebel / Elite - Dipstick clearance on Dynafocal
mounts

Someone asked if it was a common issue that his dipstick tube was hitting
the mount a while back....

.. .. so while bolting up the latest (O-320-E2D) engine installation
today,
I took a picture after everything was tightened up.

This has been the typical clearance on every Dynafocal engine I've mounted
to a Murphy made mount. About 3/16 to 1/4"....so not sure why the fella
had/has issues.

http://www.irishfield.on.ca/gallery/dip ... omount.jpg





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