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[rebel-builders] Corrosion pitting on floats

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wright.garry30

[rebel-builders] Corrosion pitting on floats

Post by wright.garry30 » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:36 pm

Wayne - there is no circuit present for conduction from the line. Induction could like in a transformer but very unlikely. I would expect something in the water itself - acid???

Garry
Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 15:00:07
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List<rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: [rebel-builders] Corrosion pitting on floats


This is my fifth season with the floats on.... and the first time I've seen
this. This year I left my airplane in the water for about 5 weeks tied to
one of my dock ends. I got the same little beige growths on the side skins
below the water line, that you usually see on the sacrifical anodes on your
outboards....and I scrubbed them off and then kept my airplane on the
airlift for the remainder of the summer. With the airplane clean and dry in
the hanger I can put my knife point in these dozens of little pit holes and
I bet they're half the skin thickness deep. Has anybody else had this happen
to you???

My first thought is where I had my airplane tied to the dock end in about 3
feet of water there is a rusty casing'd, 2400 volt, submersible cable
running under the airplane and wonder if the leakage off this hydro line
caused the plating effect.

Wayne





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Wayne G. O'Shea

[rebel-builders] Corrosion pitting on floats

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:36 pm

Line leakage to ground ? I know this same cable where it goes up the pole to
go overhead... I can make it (the common ground casing) arc to the upper
guide wire from the pole. I showed the hydro guys and they shrudged their
shoulders. I found it because in the wind my portable airplane radio in the
cottage kept buzzing. So all I can figure is there is enough leakage from
the line.. thru the insulators/wood pole to the guide wire to arc to the
casing of the submersible.

Water PH at the lake is about 6.2 as I have to add very little PH UP to make
the hot tub acceptable.

Wayne


----- Original Message -----
From: <wright.garry30@gmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 3:06 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Corrosion pitting on floats

Wayne - there is no circuit present for conduction from the line.
Induction could like in a transformer but very unlikely. I would expect
something in the water itself - acid???

Garry
Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 15:00:07
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List<rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: [rebel-builders] Corrosion pitting on floats


This is my fifth season with the floats on.... and the first time I've
seen
this. This year I left my airplane in the water for about 5 weeks tied to
one of my dock ends. I got the same little beige growths on the side skins
below the water line, that you usually see on the sacrifical anodes on
your
outboards....and I scrubbed them off and then kept my airplane on the
airlift for the remainder of the summer. With the airplane clean and dry
in
the hanger I can put my knife point in these dozens of little pit holes
and
I bet they're half the skin thickness deep. Has anybody else had this
happen
to you???

My first thought is where I had my airplane tied to the dock end in about
3
feet of water there is a rusty casing'd, 2400 volt, submersible cable
running under the airplane and wonder if the leakage off this hydro line
caused the plating effect.

Wayne





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WALTER KLATT

[rebel-builders] Corrosion pitting on floats

Post by WALTER KLATT » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:36 pm

Not sure what you mean by beige growths. I have some discolouring below the water line, more of a purple and blue hue, but not concentrated in any one spot. I think this came mostly from when I was in salt water.

But my plane is never in the water for more than a few days at a time, the odd time about a week. It is also hangared most of the time, so doesn't sit out much in the rain either.

I haven't noticed anything, but will check again more closely if I know what to look for.

I just took my boat out of the water (was moored for the summer), so will check the zincs and the leg to see what you are talking about.

Walter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
Date: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 12:01 pm
Subject: [rebel-builders] Corrosion pitting on floats
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
This is my fifth season with the floats on.... and the first
time I've seen
this. This year I left my airplane in the water for about 5
weeks tied to
one of my dock ends. I got the same little beige growths on the
side skins
below the water line, that you usually see on the sacrifical
anodes on your
outboards....and I scrubbed them off and then kept my airplane
on the
airlift for the remainder of the summer. With the airplane clean
and dry in
the hanger I can put my knife point in these dozens of little
pit holes and
I bet they're half the skin thickness deep. Has anybody else had
this happen
to you???

My first thought is where I had my airplane tied to the dock end
in about 3
feet of water there is a rusty casing'd, 2400 volt, submersible
cable
running under the airplane and wonder if the leakage off this
hydro line
caused the plating effect.

Wayne





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wright.garry30

[rebel-builders] Corrosion pitting on floats

Post by wright.garry30 » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:36 pm

That line leakage is dangerous and the hydro guys are being quite irresponsible. I've come closer to getting dead checking grounds on stuff like that than any of the other ways I've flirted with. In any event I can't think of a way that could contribite. While the ph is close to neutral on the whole scale, I suggest you put a small piece of 6061 in the water in a tub isolated from that possibility. You will likely find the same effect.

Garry
Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 15:17:26
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Corrosion pitting on floats


Line leakage to ground ? I know this same cable where it goes up the pole to
go overhead... I can make it (the common ground casing) arc to the upper
guide wire from the pole. I showed the hydro guys and they shrudged their
shoulders. I found it because in the wind my portable airplane radio in the
cottage kept buzzing. So all I can figure is there is enough leakage from
the line.. thru the insulators/wood pole to the guide wire to arc to the
casing of the submersible.

Water PH at the lake is about 6.2 as I have to add very little PH UP to make
the hot tub acceptable.

Wayne


----- Original Message -----
From: <wright.garry30@gmail.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 3:06 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Corrosion pitting on floats

Wayne - there is no circuit present for conduction from the line.
Induction could like in a transformer but very unlikely. I would expect
something in the water itself - acid???

Garry
Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>

Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 15:00:07
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List<rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: [rebel-builders] Corrosion pitting on floats


This is my fifth season with the floats on.... and the first time I've
seen
this. This year I left my airplane in the water for about 5 weeks tied to
one of my dock ends. I got the same little beige growths on the side skins
below the water line, that you usually see on the sacrifical anodes on
your
outboards....and I scrubbed them off and then kept my airplane on the
airlift for the remainder of the summer. With the airplane clean and dry
in
the hanger I can put my knife point in these dozens of little pit holes
and
I bet they're half the skin thickness deep. Has anybody else had this
happen
to you???

My first thought is where I had my airplane tied to the dock end in about
3
feet of water there is a rusty casing'd, 2400 volt, submersible cable
running under the airplane and wonder if the leakage off this hydro line
caused the plating effect.

Wayne





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Drew Dalgleish

[rebel-builders] Corrosion pitting on floats

Post by Drew Dalgleish » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:36 pm

Hi Wayne Stray current is a huge problem at some marinas. The boat hooked
up to shore power with an electrical fault acts as a cathode and all the
boats around it with good grounds get turned into sacraficial anodes. I
never bothered installing zincs on my floats figuring I'll never be near
salt water but maybe it's something to consider. My floats were in the
water for about 4 weeks this year and no signs of corrossion.

At 03:00 PM 30/09/2009 -0400, you wrote:
This is my fifth season with the floats on.... and the first time I've seen
this. This year I left my airplane in the water for about 5 weeks tied to
one of my dock ends. I got the same little beige growths on the side skins
below the water line, that you usually see on the sacrifical anodes on your
outboards....and I scrubbed them off and then kept my airplane on the
airlift for the remainder of the summer. With the airplane clean and dry in
the hanger I can put my knife point in these dozens of little pit holes and
I bet they're half the skin thickness deep. Has anybody else had this happen
to you???

My first thought is where I had my airplane tied to the dock end in about 3
feet of water there is a rusty casing'd, 2400 volt, submersible cable
running under the airplane and wonder if the leakage off this hydro line
caused the plating effect.

Wayne
Drew



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Wayne G. O'Shea

[rebel-builders] Corrosion pitting on floats

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:36 pm

I have anodes.. but the floats took the hit. Guess I won't leave it there
anymore except for quick turn arounds.

Like Garry suggested I think I'll take 2 strips of 6061 up and leave one at
that dock with the hyrdro line running beside it and put the other one way
around the other side of the island where I keep the plane on the lift and
see if there's a difference.

Wonder if I can hit Hydro with the damage bill..... yah right..


----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Corrosion pitting on floats

Hi Wayne Stray current is a huge problem at some marinas. The boat hooked
up to shore power with an electrical fault acts as a cathode and all the
boats around it with good grounds get turned into sacraficial anodes. I
never bothered installing zincs on my floats figuring I'll never be near
salt water but maybe it's something to consider. My floats were in the
water for about 4 weeks this year and no signs of corrossion.

At 03:00 PM 30/09/2009 -0400, you wrote:
This is my fifth season with the floats on.... and the first time I've
seen
this. This year I left my airplane in the water for about 5 weeks tied to
one of my dock ends. I got the same little beige growths on the side skins
below the water line, that you usually see on the sacrifical anodes on
your
outboards....and I scrubbed them off and then kept my airplane on the
airlift for the remainder of the summer. With the airplane clean and dry
in
the hanger I can put my knife point in these dozens of little pit holes
and
I bet they're half the skin thickness deep. Has anybody else had this
happen
to you???

My first thought is where I had my airplane tied to the dock end in about
3
feet of water there is a rusty casing'd, 2400 volt, submersible cable
running under the airplane and wonder if the leakage off this hydro line
caused the plating effect.

Wayne
Drew



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Dennis Finley

[rebel-builders] Corrosion pitting on floats

Post by Dennis Finley » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:36 pm

I have herd of this and it is usually current related,you can buy a
part seen advertised (cant think of the name) that will put a reverse
type current out to stop corrosion on cars so i would think that this
could be the same,


Dennis Finley






On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 12:00 PM, Wayne G. O'Shea <oifa@irishfield.on.ca> wrote:
[quote]This is my fifth season with the floats on.... and the first time I've seen
this. This year I left my airplane in the water for about 5 weeks tied to
one of my dock ends. I got the same little beige growths on the side skins
below the water line, that you usually see on the sacrifical anodes on your
outboards....and I scrubbed them off and then kept my airplane on the
airlift for the remainder of the summer. With the airplane clean and dry in
the hanger I can put my knife point in these dozens of little pit holes and
I bet they're half the skin thickness deep. Has anybody else had this happen
to you???

My first thought is where I had my airplane tied to the dock end in about 3
feet of water there is a rusty casing'd, 2400 volt, submersible cable
running under the airplane and wonder if the leakage off this hydro line
caused the plating effect.

Wayne





-----------------------------------------------------------------

Drew Dalgleish

[rebel-builders] Corrosion pitting on floats

Post by Drew Dalgleish » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:36 pm

At 06:07 PM 30/09/2009 -0400, you wrote:
I have anodes.. but the floats took the hit. Guess I won't leave it there
anymore except for quick turn arounds.

Like Garry suggested I think I'll take 2 strips of 6061 up and leave one at
that dock with the hyrdro line running beside it and put the other one way
around the other side of the island where I keep the plane on the lift and
see if there's a difference.

Wonder if I can hit Hydro with the damage bill..... yah right..
Well I recently read or heard about a farmer that sued and got compensated
by Ont. hydro over stray current hurting his cattle.
Drew



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Garry Wright

[rebel-builders] Corrosion pitting on floats

Post by Garry Wright » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:36 pm

Wayne,

Unless you had the plane hooked up with a charger for the battery or
something, so that it was somehow connected electrically to ground, thus
providing a path for current from the water to get to remote ground,
conduction would not be an issue. I think a PH of 6 means slightly
acidic. Bases (alkalines) are commonly used to etch aluminum - sometimes
for roughing up the surface prior to painting. That should not apply
here with your measured PH. The other factor here is that you are
dealing with AC from the line - not DC which is the usual electrolysis
method. AC is much less effective than DC in causing reactions but can
still do it with some differences. Specific impurities in the water
would contribute. Getting Ontario Hydro to acknowledge responsibility
would require good scientific analysis of what is actually going on as
well as a lifetime supply of both patience and legal help. Rotsa Ruck.

Garry

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:
I have anodes.. but the floats took the hit. Guess I won't leave it there
anymore except for quick turn arounds.

Like Garry suggested I think I'll take 2 strips of 6061 up and leave one at
that dock with the hyrdro line running beside it and put the other one way
around the other side of the island where I keep the plane on the lift and
see if there's a difference.

Wonder if I can hit Hydro with the damage bill..... yah right..


----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Corrosion pitting on floats


Hi Wayne Stray current is a huge problem at some marinas. The boat hooked
up to shore power with an electrical fault acts as a cathode and all the
boats around it with good grounds get turned into sacraficial anodes. I
never bothered installing zincs on my floats figuring I'll never be near
salt water but maybe it's something to consider. My floats were in the
water for about 4 weeks this year and no signs of corrossion.

At 03:00 PM 30/09/2009 -0400, you wrote:
This is my fifth season with the floats on.... and the first time I've
seen
this. This year I left my airplane in the water for about 5 weeks tied to
one of my dock ends. I got the same little beige growths on the side skins
below the water line, that you usually see on the sacrifical anodes on
your
outboards....and I scrubbed them off and then kept my airplane on the
airlift for the remainder of the summer. With the airplane clean and dry
in
the hanger I can put my knife point in these dozens of little pit holes
and
I bet they're half the skin thickness deep. Has anybody else had this
happen
to you???

My first thought is where I had my airplane tied to the dock end in about
3
feet of water there is a rusty casing'd, 2400 volt, submersible cable
running under the airplane and wonder if the leakage off this hydro line
caused the plating effect.

Wayne

Drew



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Garry Wright

[rebel-builders] Corrosion pitting on floats

Post by Garry Wright » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:36 pm

Horses are particularly susceptible to electric current entering one leg
and departing another caused typically when large fault currents enter
the ground and dissipate with distance. The change in voltage wrt remote
ground is different between say front and back feet and the horse is
electrocuted by the so called ground potential rise. (Can happen to
people during lightning strikes - keep your feet together!) Hydro
companies will pay for this well proven phenom. If they could imagine
your plane to be a horse you might have a chance : )

Garry

Drew Dalgleish wrote:
At 06:07 PM 30/09/2009 -0400, you wrote:
I have anodes.. but the floats took the hit. Guess I won't leave it there
anymore except for quick turn arounds.

Like Garry suggested I think I'll take 2 strips of 6061 up and leave one at
that dock with the hyrdro line running beside it and put the other one way
around the other side of the island where I keep the plane on the lift and
see if there's a difference.

Wonder if I can hit Hydro with the damage bill..... yah right..

Well I recently read or heard about a farmer that sued and got compensated
by Ont. hydro over stray current hurting his cattle.
Drew



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Ken

[rebel-builders] Corrosion pitting on floats

Post by Ken » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:36 pm

Those electronic automotive anti corrosion products reappear every
decade or so and have been eventually outed as worthless every time.
Good in theory until you test it. I'm disappointed to see how many auto
dealers such as Toyota are making a fast buck off it this time.

However I would consider something like a couple of coats of the
Everbright Protectaclear product which makes a chemical barrier and
electrical insulator. I have wiped it on the bottom of my floats (with a
rag) even though they aren't in the water yet. I'd suggest the clear
version as the satin version leaves some streaking with rough and ready
application unless you spray it on or are more careful than I was. $55.
per quart but it seems that a quart will put at least one coat on the
entire exterior of the floats. Two or 3 coats were recommended by the
supplier for marine use. It takes a lot of physical pressure and rubbing
to remove the stuff mechanically so I think it will last OK and it tends
to fill in any pits or scratches. Hopefully that would not accelerate
hidden corrosion in the rivet barrels though?

If you really think it is electron related, I wonder if running an earth
based ground wire to the positive terminal of the battery while it is
docked would do anything. Years ago I seem to recall concluding that
driving the body of a car 12 volts neg. like this while parked in wet
salty environments might reduce corrosion more than the commercial
electrowizzy mentioned below. Don't think the effect was very
significant with 12 volts and the large steel surface area but remember
that much of the surface is insulated with paint. Might be a bad idea
anyway. I wonder if 12 volts could electrocute you if you fell in the
water and grabbed the plane while the floats were insulated with
Everbrite and the ground wire connected?? I think a couple of milliamps
can be fatal in circumstances like this.

Ken

Dennis Finley wrote:
I have herd of this and it is usually current related,you can buy a
part seen advertised (cant think of the name) that will put a reverse
type current out to stop corrosion on cars so i would think that this
could be the same,


Dennis Finley






On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 12:00 PM, Wayne G. O'Shea <oifa@irishfield.on.ca> wrote:
This is my fifth season with the floats on.... and the first time I've seen
this. This year I left my airplane in the water for about 5 weeks tied to
one of my dock ends. I got the same little beige growths on the side skins
below the water line, that you usually see on the sacrifical anodes on your
outboards....and I scrubbed them off and then kept my airplane on the
airlift for the remainder of the summer. With the airplane clean and dry in
the hanger I can put my knife point in these dozens of little pit holes and
I bet they're half the skin thickness deep. Has anybody else had this happen
to you???

My first thought is where I had my airplane tied to the dock end in about 3
feet of water there is a rusty casing'd, 2400 volt, submersible cable
running under the airplane and wonder if the leakage off this hydro line
caused the plating effect.

Wayne

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