[rebel-builders] tip fastener spacing

[Charlie Eubanks]

Hi Ron
I have not flown my Rebel yet but I put a rivet every 4-5" forward of the
main spar and 5-7" aft of the spar. I installed a similar rivet pattern on
my Glastar and it has worked just fine for the last 5+ years. I will send a
couple of photos off line only because I don't know how to up load them to
the list..
Charlie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Shannon" <rshannon@cruzcom.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 3:20 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] tip fastener spacing

To fasten my wing tips, I plan to use #6 truss head machine screws into
single hole Click Bond nutplates. The manual calls for fastener spacing
between "every other tib rib rivet" when using 0410 rivets, which puts the
rivets approx. 2-7/16" apart. When laying that out, that high fastener
density looks like major overkill. I'd prefer spacing the screws between
every third tip rib rivet instead, increasing the spacing to roughly every
4
inches.

Is it really necessary to have screws every 2-7/16" or will 4" spacing
suffice?

Ron




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[Ron Shannon]

Thanks, Charlie.


On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 2:38 PM, Charlie Eubanks <charlie@troyairpark.com>wrote:

Hi Ron
I have not flown my Rebel yet but I put a rivet every 4-5" forward of the
main spar and 5-7" aft of the spar. I installed a similar rivet pattern on
my Glastar and it has worked just fine for the last 5+ years. I will send a
couple of photos off line only because I don't know how to up load them to
the list..
Charlie

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[Ken]

FWIW the larger spacing wouldn't bother me Ron but being conservative
I'd be more comfortable with #8 screws. Stronger and easier to tighten
and remove without twisting them off.
Ken

Charlie Eubanks wrote:

Hi Ron
I have not flown my Rebel yet but I put a rivet every 4-5" forward of the
main spar and 5-7" aft of the spar. I installed a similar rivet pattern on
my Glastar and it has worked just fine for the last 5+ years. I will send a
couple of photos off line only because I don't know how to up load them to
the list..
Charlie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Shannon" <rshannon@cruzcom.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 3:20 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] tip fastener spacing

To fasten my wing tips, I plan to use #6 truss head machine screws into
single hole Click Bond nutplates. The manual calls for fastener spacing
between "every other tib rib rivet" when using 0410 rivets, which puts the
rivets approx. 2-7/16" apart. When laying that out, that high fastener
density looks like major overkill. I'd prefer spacing the screws between
every third tip rib rivet instead, increasing the spacing to roughly every
4
inches.

Is it really necessary to have screws every 2-7/16" or will 4" spacing
suffice?

Ron

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[Ron Shannon]

Yes, with wider spacing I'm coming around to #8's. Easier to hold in the
fingers too.

It turns out that settling on a pattern that will place new screw holes
where there's actually some space between the existing tip rib flush rivets
is problematic, at best, even after abandoning any attempt to make the
spacing symmetrical. Oh well. It's a bush plane. :-)

Ron


On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 3:17 PM, Ken <klehman@albedo.net> wrote:

FWIW the larger spacing wouldn't bother me Ron but being conservative
I'd be more comfortable with #8 screws. Stronger and easier to tighten
and remove without twisting them off.
Ken

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[Ken]

I didn't have any trouble riveting in nutplates but I probably used the
mini nutplates.
Ken

Ron Shannon wrote:

Yes, with wider spacing I'm coming around to #8's. Easier to hold in the
fingers too.

It turns out that settling on a pattern that will place new screw holes
where there's actually some space between the existing tip rib flush rivets
is problematic, at best, even after abandoning any attempt to make the
spacing symmetrical. Oh well. It's a bush plane. :-)

Ron


On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 3:17 PM, Ken <klehman@albedo.net> wrote:

FWIW the larger spacing wouldn't bother me Ron but being conservative
I'd be more comfortable with #8 screws. Stronger and easier to tighten
and remove without twisting them off.
Ken

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[Charlie Eubanks]

Ron & Ken
I should have stated in my first E=mail that I used #8 100 *flat head screws
& CSK washers to increase the washer footprint and try to address the
expension/contraction factor of those dis-simpliar material when exposed to
bright sun light.
Charlie E.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] tip fastener spacing

FWIW the larger spacing wouldn't bother me Ron but being conservative
I'd be more comfortable with #8 screws. Stronger and easier to tighten
and remove without twisting them off.
Ken

Charlie Eubanks wrote:

Hi Ron
I have not flown my Rebel yet but I put a rivet every 4-5" forward of the
main spar and 5-7" aft of the spar. I installed a similar rivet pattern
on
my Glastar and it has worked just fine for the last 5+ years. I will send
a
couple of photos off line only because I don't know how to up load them
to
the list..
Charlie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Shannon" <rshannon@cruzcom.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 3:20 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] tip fastener spacing

To fasten my wing tips, I plan to use #6 truss head machine screws into
single hole Click Bond nutplates. The manual calls for fastener spacing
between "every other tib rib rivet" when using 0410 rivets, which puts
the
rivets approx. 2-7/16" apart. When laying that out, that high fastener
density looks like major overkill. I'd prefer spacing the screws
between
every third tip rib rivet instead, increasing the spacing to roughly
every
4
inches.

Is it really necessary to have screws every 2-7/16" or will 4" spacing
suffice?

Ron

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[Eric Fogelin]

I riveted my tips on. Saves time and weight. I have a single strobe pack in
the cabin, nothing but wires in the wings and can remove my position/strobe
light pack from the end of the wing tip without removing the wing tip.

The radio and intercom have absolutely no strobe noise in receiving or
broadcast. I run shielded wire to the strobes forward of the spar and not in
the D-section (leading edge).

So, I have no requirement to remove the wingtip; rivets are easy. The close
rivet spacing also helps the tip fiberglass follow the aluminum airfoil
shape.

Eric
Elite Amphib N645E

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Ron
Shannon
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 1:20 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] tip fastener spacing

To fasten my wing tips, I plan to use #6 truss head machine screws into
single hole Click Bond nutplates. The manual calls for fastener spacing
between "every other tib rib rivet" when using 0410 rivets, which puts the
rivets approx. 2-7/16" apart. When laying that out, that high fastener
density looks like major overkill. I'd prefer spacing the screws between
every third tip rib rivet instead, increasing the spacing to roughly every 4
inches.

Is it really necessary to have screws every 2-7/16" or will 4" spacing
suffice?

Ron




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[Terry Dazey]

Hello Ron and Group:

I just completed my fiberglass tail tip installation using #6 mini nutplates (non-floating with dimpled ears). Dimpled skin at the ears and used solid rivets with exception of #6 Click-Bonds at the last two trailing edge closeout locations where things get tight. Am going to use #6 round head screws and flat (thin) washers for attach. The nutplates are installed between each existing countersunk rib rivet as plans call out. Didn't do any structural calculations, but figured the strength of the #6 screw would be close, if not better to a 1410 rivet. My thought was that the tip attach hardware needed to structurally anchor the cantilevered lead weight at the leading edge and be able to accept associated vibrations as well. Hopefully, the quantity and size of attach screws will be acceptable. The #6 screws seem to screw into the nutplates relatively easy with no need to torque on them . . . too much. As a side note, all of my inspection plates, etc. inside and out are attached with #6 s
crews of same length (w
i
th exception of a few places). Have also been looking for some Torx or Allen head round (button) head screws to use. Whatever, I am glad that the tips are removable for ease of inspection and maintenance.

My "BIG plan" for the wing tips is to accomplish the same, substituting the MAM called out rivet locations with #6 nutplates and attach screws. All subject to change though.

FWIW, this is what I did anyway.

Terry Dazey
R662


-----Original Message-----

From: Ron Shannon <rshannon@cruzcom.com>
Sent: Sep 18, 2009 1:20 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: [rebel-builders] tip fastener spacing

To fasten my wing tips, I plan to use #6 truss head machine screws into
single hole Click Bond nutplates. The manual calls for fastener spacing
between "every other tib rib rivet" when using 0410 rivets, which puts the
rivets approx. 2-7/16" apart. When laying that out, that high fastener
density looks like major overkill. I'd prefer spacing the screws between
every third tip rib rivet instead, increasing the spacing to roughly every 4
inches.

Is it really necessary to have screws every 2-7/16" or will 4" spacing
suffice?

Ron




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[Terry Dazey]

Good point on the rivet spacing Eric!

Terry Dazey
R662

The close
rivet spacing also helps the tip fiberglass follow the aluminum airfoil
shape.

Eric

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