Bob,
Hope all is well.
My partner Randy Bowers and I, and I am sure several other builders,
anxiously await news from MAM about three topics.
The M-14P, the 3500 Lb gross and the 3500 amphibs projects.
I hate to nag and I am sure MAM gets tired of builders calling to check on
the status of these projects. If those interested each called only once a
month it would be easy for MAM to get a call a day.
Now, I am timid when it comes to creating another job for someone else, and
I certainly do want to have us builders wear out our welcome, but here goes.
Bob, would you consider checking in with the factory and giving us an update
say every couple of weeks to a month on the status of these projects that
are so important to the direction of our SR projects? Or, asking/suggesting,
as a factory rep that Murphy post timely updates on their web site.
Even knowing no progress has been made is better than being "kept in the
dark"
With the timetable a fast build kit allows. Major decisions like, which
engine and which floats, are no longer two or three years down the road.
Just had a thought. I am new too the list, six weeks or so. If this is
something you already do, sorry to bring it up.
Thanks for all you contributions to help Murphy Builders,
Don Boardman
Rome, NY
SR 130
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Possibility of Updates from bobp
-
Bob Patterson
Possibility of Updates from bobp
Hi Don !!
Glad to hear your making progress on your Super Rebel !
I'm only an <independent> factory rep., so I don't have any
special 'insider' connections, but I'll be pleased to pass along
as much as I know about these projects, especially if it will relieve
some pressure on the Tech. Dept.. :-)
I'm proud of my <independent> status, as I hope that this
position gives people the confidence to discuss things with me,
trusting that my 43 years of flying experience will outweigh any
connection to the factory. I always try to steer people toward the
best airplane for their needs, wherever it may come from, based
on my experiences and their objectives.
Most of the major kit manufacturers socialize & exchange ideas
regularly, at the management level, and I've been fortunate enough
to sit in on some of these discussions - of course, in the magazines
and at the trade shows, it's every man for himself !! :-)
Sometimes, different manufacturers tell me things about their plans
in confidence, and I must respect that, so I can only 'suggest' choices.
Murphy Aircraft has always had a very open relationship
with their customers, and DO try to keep everyone updated, but the
staff must spend most of their time actually DOING the work, and
supporting present sales, instead of promoting future sales.
I will suggest updates on the web page, although the site is now
going through a major revision, and it might be a while before
you see much more than small updates on immediate concerns there.
I will be pleased to pass along anything I hear, and I'm sure
the Tech. guys would appreciate only having to answer the
questions ONCE ! :-) I suspect that I'll only have news
updates for you about every 2 months, or so, as "these things
(the actual building) take time". ;-)
The M-14P project IS moving ahead. Some of the stress
calculations have been done, and work has already started on a
prototype engine mount. This project has a high priority, and is
being pushed, with the planned objective of being able to display
a "finished F-W Forward" at the next Sun 'n Fun Fly-In !! This is
VERY ambitious, but has full management support, so it likely WILL
happen.
Stress testing to raise the gross weight is also in progress.
I hear the Super Rebel wing passed, with 'flying colours', a load
test that simulated FULL aileron deflection in a 140 mph DIVE !!!
(Don't try this at home, kids ! :-) :-) )
I believe that the HOPE, and PLAN, is to be able to raise the
gross weight to 3,350 on wheels, and 3,500 lb. on floats. This may
involve an add-on 'kit' of some sort, but the factory have already
stated that they will only do this if a retro-fit is possible for
customers already building. They really are concerned that nobody gets
'left out' ! This gross weight upgrade may be offered as an
option for future buyers, OR incorporated into the design, and
be marketed as the NEW "SR-3500", replacing the SR-2500 completely.
(Any thoughts and feedback on the best way to go ???)
The Super Rebel already has more useful load than the new
Found Bushhawk, and, I think the upgrade will give it as much,
or MORE carrying capability than the legendary Beaver !! Have
any doubts about the future of kit aircraft ??!!!
The 3500 amphibs are a major project. Some preliminary
design work has started, but the first priority is getting the
aircraft kits done. I <believe> that the 3500's will be such a
big, complex undertaking that they will only be offered as
completed, factory-built floats - a kit is unlikely...
The feeling I get is that most folks will be working hard to
get their Super Rebels flying on wheels in 2001, and won't
need the floats until the next year.... by then , they should
be available. If you're REALLY pushing, and want to get flying
on amphibs NOW, you should perhaps look at the Wipline 3500's,
or some of the other manufacturers. They <ARE> expensive, but
I suspect delivery is only a matter of months, and you <COULD>
always re-sell them to some poor soul with a certified airplane,
when the Murphy floats are finished. Sorry, maybe not what
everyone would like to hear, but that's <my humble opinion>. :-) :-)
Hope this helps ease some tension !! I'll keep you all
posted, as soon as I hear anything. Again, <I> believe the
M-14P mounting package AND the gross weight upgrade WILL be
available next spring, or summer at latest....
.....bobp
----------------------------orig.-----------------------------------
At 10:31 PM 10/11/00 -0400, you wrote:
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Glad to hear your making progress on your Super Rebel !
I'm only an <independent> factory rep., so I don't have any
special 'insider' connections, but I'll be pleased to pass along
as much as I know about these projects, especially if it will relieve
some pressure on the Tech. Dept.. :-)
I'm proud of my <independent> status, as I hope that this
position gives people the confidence to discuss things with me,
trusting that my 43 years of flying experience will outweigh any
connection to the factory. I always try to steer people toward the
best airplane for their needs, wherever it may come from, based
on my experiences and their objectives.
Most of the major kit manufacturers socialize & exchange ideas
regularly, at the management level, and I've been fortunate enough
to sit in on some of these discussions - of course, in the magazines
and at the trade shows, it's every man for himself !! :-)
Sometimes, different manufacturers tell me things about their plans
in confidence, and I must respect that, so I can only 'suggest' choices.
Murphy Aircraft has always had a very open relationship
with their customers, and DO try to keep everyone updated, but the
staff must spend most of their time actually DOING the work, and
supporting present sales, instead of promoting future sales.
I will suggest updates on the web page, although the site is now
going through a major revision, and it might be a while before
you see much more than small updates on immediate concerns there.
I will be pleased to pass along anything I hear, and I'm sure
the Tech. guys would appreciate only having to answer the
questions ONCE ! :-) I suspect that I'll only have news
updates for you about every 2 months, or so, as "these things
(the actual building) take time". ;-)
The M-14P project IS moving ahead. Some of the stress
calculations have been done, and work has already started on a
prototype engine mount. This project has a high priority, and is
being pushed, with the planned objective of being able to display
a "finished F-W Forward" at the next Sun 'n Fun Fly-In !! This is
VERY ambitious, but has full management support, so it likely WILL
happen.
Stress testing to raise the gross weight is also in progress.
I hear the Super Rebel wing passed, with 'flying colours', a load
test that simulated FULL aileron deflection in a 140 mph DIVE !!!
(Don't try this at home, kids ! :-) :-) )
I believe that the HOPE, and PLAN, is to be able to raise the
gross weight to 3,350 on wheels, and 3,500 lb. on floats. This may
involve an add-on 'kit' of some sort, but the factory have already
stated that they will only do this if a retro-fit is possible for
customers already building. They really are concerned that nobody gets
'left out' ! This gross weight upgrade may be offered as an
option for future buyers, OR incorporated into the design, and
be marketed as the NEW "SR-3500", replacing the SR-2500 completely.
(Any thoughts and feedback on the best way to go ???)
The Super Rebel already has more useful load than the new
Found Bushhawk, and, I think the upgrade will give it as much,
or MORE carrying capability than the legendary Beaver !! Have
any doubts about the future of kit aircraft ??!!!
The 3500 amphibs are a major project. Some preliminary
design work has started, but the first priority is getting the
aircraft kits done. I <believe> that the 3500's will be such a
big, complex undertaking that they will only be offered as
completed, factory-built floats - a kit is unlikely...
The feeling I get is that most folks will be working hard to
get their Super Rebels flying on wheels in 2001, and won't
need the floats until the next year.... by then , they should
be available. If you're REALLY pushing, and want to get flying
on amphibs NOW, you should perhaps look at the Wipline 3500's,
or some of the other manufacturers. They <ARE> expensive, but
I suspect delivery is only a matter of months, and you <COULD>
always re-sell them to some poor soul with a certified airplane,
when the Murphy floats are finished. Sorry, maybe not what
everyone would like to hear, but that's <my humble opinion>. :-) :-)
Hope this helps ease some tension !! I'll keep you all
posted, as soon as I hear anything. Again, <I> believe the
M-14P mounting package AND the gross weight upgrade WILL be
available next spring, or summer at latest....
.....bobp
----------------------------orig.-----------------------------------
At 10:31 PM 10/11/00 -0400, you wrote:
---------*Bob,
Hope all is well.
My partner Randy Bowers and I, and I am sure several other builders,
anxiously await news from MAM about three topics.
The M-14P, the 3500 Lb gross and the 3500 amphibs projects.
I hate to nag and I am sure MAM gets tired of builders calling to check on
the status of these projects. If those interested each called only once a
month it would be easy for MAM to get a call a day.
Now, I am timid when it comes to creating another job for someone else, and
I certainly do want to have us builders wear out our welcome, but here goes.
Bob, would you consider checking in with the factory and giving us an update
say every couple of weeks to a month on the status of these projects that
are so important to the direction of our SR projects? Or, asking/suggesting,
as a factory rep that Murphy post timely updates on their web site.
Even knowing no progress has been made is better than being "kept in the
dark"
With the timetable a fast build kit allows. Major decisions like, which
engine and which floats, are no longer two or three years down the road.
Just had a thought. I am new too the list, six weeks or so. If this is
something you already do, sorry to bring it up.
Thanks for all you contributions to help Murphy Builders,
Don Boardman
Rome, NY
SR 130
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
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between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
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*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
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-
David M Parrish
Possibility of Updates from bobp
On 12 Oct 2000, at 12:00, Bob Patterson wrote:
(Nudge, nudge. Wink, wink.)
I wouldn't go with SR-3500 unless there are some _very_ major
structural changes, such as new fusalage skins or a change in
wing placement. Enough that it's really a different airplane. (Unless
for marketing reasons. Then all bets are off.)
If the mods create major changes just in the fore section, such as
new firewall, replaced bulkheads, other significant metal work or
incurrs significant weight penalties, you might call it SR-2500A or
Plus or some such. This could be still offered as an upgrade kit,
with the understanding of the work or tradeoffs involved.
If the changes are just extra reinforcing structures that are mostly
added to the existing structures and don't require major
modifications or weight, then I'd just bundle it into new kits and
have it available for existing kits, without any name change.
load! With full fuel, the Beaver carried what? 800, 900lbs? With 80
gal of fuel in the SR, that's still 1470lbs of payload. Even at
1700lbs, that's 1170lbs of people and stuff.
---
David Parrish
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Or the quickbuilds that will ship sometime next year.and 3,500 lb. on floats. This may involve an add-on 'kit' of some
sort, but the factory have already stated that they will only do this
if a retro-fit is possible for customers already building. They really
(Nudge, nudge. Wink, wink.)
Please! No Windows ME type "upgrades"! :)upgrade may be offered as an option for future buyers, OR incorporated
into the design, and be marketed as the NEW "SR-3500", replacing the
SR-2500 completely. (Any thoughts and feedback on the best way to go
I wouldn't go with SR-3500 unless there are some _very_ major
structural changes, such as new fusalage skins or a change in
wing placement. Enough that it's really a different airplane. (Unless
for marketing reasons. Then all bets are off.)
If the mods create major changes just in the fore section, such as
new firewall, replaced bulkheads, other significant metal work or
incurrs significant weight penalties, you might call it SR-2500A or
Plus or some such. This could be still offered as an upgrade kit,
with the understanding of the work or tradeoffs involved.
If the changes are just extra reinforcing structures that are mostly
added to the existing structures and don't require major
modifications or weight, then I'd just bundle it into new kits and
have it available for existing kits, without any name change.
If you can build the plane at 1400lbs, that's almost a TON of usefulFound Bushhawk, and, I think the upgrade will give it as much, or MORE
carrying capability than the legendary Beaver !! Have any doubts
load! With full fuel, the Beaver carried what? 800, 900lbs? With 80
gal of fuel in the SR, that's still 1470lbs of payload. Even at
1700lbs, that's 1170lbs of people and stuff.
---
David Parrish
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between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
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-
Bob Patterson
Possibility of Updates from bobp
Okay !! A bit of clarification.....
I could be wrong, but I envisaged the gross weight increase as
a separate thing from the M-14P mounting upgrade. My thought was
that all of the new SR's would have the 3500 GW, and those who wanted
could buy the M-14P mounting kit (which I imagine, will involve some
fairly heavy fuselage mods - but I don't know !)
The original Super Rebel was called the SR-2500 because the
gross weight was 2500 lb. - it seems reasonable now to call it the
SR-3500. Of course, ALL of this name changing is JUST for marketing !!
We want to sell airplanes !!! ;-) A new model will call attention
to the load carrying ability, and maybe get us some more magazine
articles.
..... or maybe we should call it the SUPER DUPER REBEL ;-')
The name change would help avoid some problems with later
purchasers accidentally overloading older kits, believing that they
were the same as current kits of the same name & model. Same reason
DeHavilland have Dash 8 models 100,200,300, and 400 - all Dash 8's,
but different GWs.
Anyway, I was just looking for some input on possible
marketing directions .... all suggestions welcome ! :-)
.....bobp
-------------------------------orig.---------------------------------------
At 02:29 PM 10/12/00 -0400, you wrote:
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I could be wrong, but I envisaged the gross weight increase as
a separate thing from the M-14P mounting upgrade. My thought was
that all of the new SR's would have the 3500 GW, and those who wanted
could buy the M-14P mounting kit (which I imagine, will involve some
fairly heavy fuselage mods - but I don't know !)
The original Super Rebel was called the SR-2500 because the
gross weight was 2500 lb. - it seems reasonable now to call it the
SR-3500. Of course, ALL of this name changing is JUST for marketing !!
We want to sell airplanes !!! ;-) A new model will call attention
to the load carrying ability, and maybe get us some more magazine
articles.
..... or maybe we should call it the SUPER DUPER REBEL ;-')
The name change would help avoid some problems with later
purchasers accidentally overloading older kits, believing that they
were the same as current kits of the same name & model. Same reason
DeHavilland have Dash 8 models 100,200,300, and 400 - all Dash 8's,
but different GWs.
Anyway, I was just looking for some input on possible
marketing directions .... all suggestions welcome ! :-)
.....bobp
-------------------------------orig.---------------------------------------
At 02:29 PM 10/12/00 -0400, you wrote:
---------*On 12 Oct 2000, at 12:00, Bob Patterson wrote:
Or the quickbuilds that will ship sometime next year.and 3,500 lb. on floats. This may involve an add-on 'kit' of some
sort, but the factory have already stated that they will only do this
if a retro-fit is possible for customers already building. They really
(Nudge, nudge. Wink, wink.)
Please! No Windows ME type "upgrades"! :)upgrade may be offered as an option for future buyers, OR incorporated
into the design, and be marketed as the NEW "SR-3500", replacing the
SR-2500 completely. (Any thoughts and feedback on the best way to go
I wouldn't go with SR-3500 unless there are some _very_ major
structural changes, such as new fusalage skins or a change in
wing placement. Enough that it's really a different airplane. (Unless
for marketing reasons. Then all bets are off.)
If the mods create major changes just in the fore section, such as
new firewall, replaced bulkheads, other significant metal work or
incurrs significant weight penalties, you might call it SR-2500A or
Plus or some such. This could be still offered as an upgrade kit,
with the understanding of the work or tradeoffs involved.
If the changes are just extra reinforcing structures that are mostly
added to the existing structures and don't require major
modifications or weight, then I'd just bundle it into new kits and
have it available for existing kits, without any name change.
If you can build the plane at 1400lbs, that's almost a TON of usefulFound Bushhawk, and, I think the upgrade will give it as much, or MORE
carrying capability than the legendary Beaver !! Have any doubts
load! With full fuel, the Beaver carried what? 800, 900lbs? With 80
gal of fuel in the SR, that's still 1470lbs of payload. Even at
1700lbs, that's 1170lbs of people and stuff.
---
David Parrish
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
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between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
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*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
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