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[rebel-builders] seat frame material

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Drew Dalgleish

[rebel-builders] seat frame material

Post by Drew Dalgleish » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:12 pm

4130 stee Gary. When mine broke I sdded another tube to the inside to
strengthen it a bit before I welded it.

At 02:32 PM 7/7/2007 -0600, you wrote:
Can anyone tell me what material the seat back frame is made from? I
broke mine today and must repair it quickly. It will be useful to know
what material it is in order to weld it.

Garry
068R




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Robert Johnson

[rebel-builders] seat frame material

Post by Robert Johnson » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:12 pm

Hi Gary: The material should be 4130 steel if Murphy follows general
aircraft material recommendations. I would think that is the case and recall
seeing it somewhere on a materials list.That material (4130) is used
extensively in high strength required areas and has good weldability.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Garry Wright" <wrightdg@davincibb.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 4:32 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] seat frame material

Can anyone tell me what material the seat back frame is made from? I
broke mine today and must repair it quickly. It will be useful to know
what material it is in order to weld it.

Garry
068R




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Garry Wright

[rebel-builders] seat frame material

Post by Garry Wright » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:12 pm

Thanks Bob and Drew. Wouldn't you know it. The ramblers arrive here on
Tuesday and the Saturday before I break the seat. I will do the insert
thing Drew - as you did.

Garry
068R

Robert Johnson wrote:
Hi Gary: The material should be 4130 steel if Murphy follows general
aircraft material recommendations. I would think that is the case and recall
seeing it somewhere on a materials list.That material (4130) is used
extensively in high strength required areas and has good weldability.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Garry Wright" <wrightdg@davincibb.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 4:32 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] seat frame material

Can anyone tell me what material the seat back frame is made from? I
broke mine today and must repair it quickly. It will be useful to know
what material it is in order to weld it.

Garry
068R




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Garry Wright

[rebel-builders] seat frame material

Post by Garry Wright » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:12 pm

Any idea if earlier models (068R) used something else? It does seem
pretty light for steel.

Garry

Drew Dalgleish wrote:
4130 stee Gary. When mine broke I sdded another tube to the inside to
strengthen it a bit before I welded it.

At 02:32 PM 7/7/2007 -0600, you wrote:
Can anyone tell me what material the seat back frame is made from? I
broke mine today and must repair it quickly. It will be useful to know
what material it is in order to weld it.

Garry
068R




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Drew Dalgleish

[rebel-builders] seat frame material

Post by Drew Dalgleish » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:12 pm

That's the way it goes. It's an easy fix if you're a welder. If you're
going solo the seatbacks are interchangable.

At 04:30 PM 7/7/2007 -0600, you wrote:
Thanks Bob and Drew. Wouldn't you know it. The ramblers arrive here on
Tuesday and the Saturday before I break the seat. I will do the insert
thing Drew - as you did.

Garry
068R

Robert Johnson wrote:
Hi Gary: The material should be 4130 steel if Murphy follows general
aircraft material recommendations. I would think that is the case and
recall
seeing it somewhere on a materials list.That material (4130) is used
extensively in high strength required areas and has good weldability.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Garry Wright" <wrightdg@davincibb.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 4:32 PM
Subject: [rebel-builders] seat frame material

Can anyone tell me what material the seat back frame is made from? I
broke mine today and must repair it quickly. It will be useful to know
what material it is in order to weld it.

Garry
068R




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Drew Dalgleish

[rebel-builders] seat frame material

Post by Drew Dalgleish » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:12 pm

At 04:31 PM 7/7/2007 -0600, you wrote:
Any idea if earlier models (068R) used something else? It does seem
pretty light for steel.

Garry
It's really thin steel about .020 that's why t's so light. The later
seatbacks have the tube at the front going about halfway up the seatback.
Drew Dalgleish wrote:
4130 stee Gary. When mine broke I sdded another tube to the inside to
strengthen it a bit before I welded it.

At 02:32 PM 7/7/2007 -0600, you wrote:
Can anyone tell me what material the seat back frame is made from? I
broke mine today and must repair it quickly. It will be useful to know
what material it is in order to weld it.

Garry
068R




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Robert Johnson

[rebel-builders] seat frame material

Post by Robert Johnson » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:12 pm

Hello again: Like Drew said Gary, the material is thin wall 4130 tube -
hence the lightness, but there should be that angle brace on the sides which
was added for increased strength. Bob J
----- Original Message -----
From: "Garry Wright" <wrightdg@davincibb.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 6:31 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] seat frame material

Any idea if earlier models (068R) used something else? It does seem
pretty light for steel.

Garry

Drew Dalgleish wrote:
4130 stee Gary. When mine broke I sdded another tube to the inside to
strengthen it a bit before I welded it.

At 02:32 PM 7/7/2007 -0600, you wrote:
Can anyone tell me what material the seat back frame is made from? I
broke mine today and must repair it quickly. It will be useful to know
what material it is in order to weld it.

Garry
068R




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Garry Wright

[rebel-builders] seat frame material

Post by Garry Wright » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:12 pm

Thanks again Bob and Drew.

Bob - I don't see an angle brace in the CD copy of the manual. The seat
in the CD is taller than the one I have but otherwise the same. The only
attachment on this back-frame is the hinge thingy. Not sure how to put
an angle brace on without interfering with the existing upholstery.

We have a piece of solid aluminum rod that fits tightly inside the frame
and even without welding should be strong enough. I will get a neighbor
to weld it Monday and then re-assemble before going off to Arlington and
OSH with the ramblers.

I swapped the little used passenger seatback to the pilot side so Ron
will get the repaired seat on his side. There will be lots of junk in
the back so it won't have any tendency to move back.

Garry
068R

Robert Johnson wrote:
Hello again: Like Drew said Gary, the material is thin wall 4130 tube -
hence the lightness, but there should be that angle brace on the sides which
was added for increased strength. Bob J
----- Original Message -----
From: "Garry Wright" <wrightdg@davincibb.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 6:31 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] seat frame material

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Robert Johnson

[rebel-builders] seat frame material

Post by Robert Johnson » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:12 pm

Gary, I sent a return message direct to you with pictures attached. Let me
know if you get it O.K. Bob J Rebel 192/731
----- Original Message -----
From: "Garry Wright" <wrightdg@davincibb.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 7:40 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] seat frame material

Thanks again Bob and Drew.

Bob - I don't see an angle brace in the CD copy of the manual. The seat
in the CD is taller than the one I have but otherwise the same. The only
attachment on this back-frame is the hinge thingy. Not sure how to put
an angle brace on without interfering with the existing upholstery.

We have a piece of solid aluminum rod that fits tightly inside the frame
and even without welding should be strong enough. I will get a neighbor
to weld it Monday and then re-assemble before going off to Arlington and
OSH with the ramblers.

I swapped the little used passenger seatback to the pilot side so Ron
will get the repaired seat on his side. There will be lots of junk in
the back so it won't have any tendency to move back.

Garry
068R

Robert Johnson wrote:
Hello again: Like Drew said Gary, the material is thin wall 4130 tube -
hence the lightness, but there should be that angle brace on the sides
which
was added for increased strength. Bob J
----- Original Message -----
From: "Garry Wright" <wrightdg@davincibb.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 6:31 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] seat frame material

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Garry Wright

[rebel-builders] seat frame material

Post by Garry Wright » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:12 pm

Thanks Bob. Wow. That seat could hold 3 of me easily. It is way stronger
than what I have. I will see if I can do something like that and not
screw up the upholstery too much.

Garry

Robert Johnson wrote:
Gary, I sent a return message direct to you with pictures attached. Let me
know if you get it O.K. Bob J Rebel 192/731
----- Original Message -----
From: "Garry Wright" <wrightdg@davincibb.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 7:40 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] seat frame material

Thanks again Bob and Drew.

Bob - I don't see an angle brace in the CD copy of the manual. The seat
in the CD is taller than the one I have but otherwise the same. The only
attachment on this back-frame is the hinge thingy. Not sure how to put
an angle brace on without interfering with the existing upholstery.

We have a piece of solid aluminum rod that fits tightly inside the frame
and even without welding should be strong enough. I will get a neighbor
to weld it Monday and then re-assemble before going off to Arlington and
OSH with the ramblers.

I swapped the little used passenger seatback to the pilot side so Ron
will get the repaired seat on his side. There will be lots of junk in
the back so it won't have any tendency to move back.

Garry
068R

Robert Johnson wrote:
Hello again: Like Drew said Gary, the material is thin wall 4130 tube -
hence the lightness, but there should be that angle brace on the sides
which
was added for increased strength. Bob J
----- Original Message -----
From: "Garry Wright" <wrightdg@davincibb.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 6:31 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] seat frame material
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Drew Dalgleish

[rebel-builders] seat frame material

Post by Drew Dalgleish » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:12 pm

Hi Garry Your neighbour won't be able to weld it with an aluminum rod up
the centre. The aluminum will melt way before the steel and you'll have a
huge mess. There's been lots of discussion about this problem a couple
years ago if you search the archives there's lots of suggestions. My
seatback and I think most of the others that broke failed at a rivet hole.
On mine I welded up all the holes and reattached the seatback aluminum by
wrapping aluminum straps around the frame then rivetting each end to the
seat back aluminum only.

At 05:40 PM 7/7/2007 -0600, you wrote:
Thanks again Bob and Drew.

Bob - I don't see an angle brace in the CD copy of the manual. The seat
in the CD is taller than the one I have but otherwise the same. The only
attachment on this back-frame is the hinge thingy. Not sure how to put
an angle brace on without interfering with the existing upholstery.

We have a piece of solid aluminum rod that fits tightly inside the frame
and even without welding should be strong enough. I will get a neighbor
to weld it Monday and then re-assemble before going off to Arlington and
OSH with the ramblers.

I swapped the little used passenger seatback to the pilot side so Ron
will get the repaired seat on his side. There will be lots of junk in
the back so it won't have any tendency to move back.

Garry
068R

Robert Johnson wrote:
Hello again: Like Drew said Gary, the material is thin wall 4130 tube -
hence the lightness, but there should be that angle brace on the sides
which
was added for increased strength. Bob J
----- Original Message -----
From: "Garry Wright" <wrightdg@davincibb.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 6:31 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] seat frame material

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Garry Wright

[rebel-builders] seat frame material

Post by Garry Wright » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:12 pm

Thanks Drew. I'll do something like that and add a gusset somehow to
stiffen it a bit.

Garry
068R

Drew Dalgleish wrote:
Hi Garry Your neighbour won't be able to weld it with an aluminum rod up
the centre. The aluminum will melt way before the steel and you'll have a
huge mess. There's been lots of discussion about this problem a couple
years ago if you search the archives there's lots of suggestions. My
seatback and I think most of the others that broke failed at a rivet hole.
On mine I welded up all the holes and reattached the seatback aluminum by
wrapping aluminum straps around the frame then rivetting each end to the
seat back aluminum only.

At 05:40 PM 7/7/2007 -0600, you wrote:
Thanks again Bob and Drew.

Bob - I don't see an angle brace in the CD copy of the manual. The seat
in the CD is taller than the one I have but otherwise the same. The only
attachment on this back-frame is the hinge thingy. Not sure how to put
an angle brace on without interfering with the existing upholstery.

We have a piece of solid aluminum rod that fits tightly inside the frame
and even without welding should be strong enough. I will get a neighbor
to weld it Monday and then re-assemble before going off to Arlington and
OSH with the ramblers.

I swapped the little used passenger seatback to the pilot side so Ron
will get the repaired seat on his side. There will be lots of junk in
the back so it won't have any tendency to move back.

Garry
068R

Robert Johnson wrote:
Hello again: Like Drew said Gary, the material is thin wall 4130 tube -
hence the lightness, but there should be that angle brace on the sides
which
was added for increased strength. Bob J
----- Original Message -----
From: "Garry Wright" <wrightdg@davincibb.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 6:31 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] seat frame material
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Ron Shannon

[rebel-builders] seat frame material

Post by Ron Shannon » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:12 pm

Garry,

Just caught up with this thread.

I have the new seat backs. Ordered them specially. I also have
completely new upholstered cushions from Oregon Aero. They use a canvas
sling (like many certificated plane seats) both bottom and back, instead
of the aluminum panels that require several dozen rivets through the
frames, so these are an even more optimal design that way. They're in a
box. It might be possible for me to get them there, or we could pick
them up here -- worst case.

The new seat backs are "a good idea". Lots of discussion about the
failings of the old ones in the archives. As Jim LePard (A&P who started
my 254R) put it, "A collapsing seat back in a crash is not a survivable
event."

Of course, as long as it's just the left seat.... :-)

Ron

PS - More on trip prep soon. I'm on it more or less full time from here
on out.


Garry Wright wrote:
Thanks Bob. Wow. That seat could hold 3 of me easily. It is way stronger
than what I have. I will see if I can do something like that and not
screw up the upholstery too much.

Garry

Robert Johnson wrote:
Gary, I sent a return message direct to you with pictures attached. Let me
know if you get it O.K. Bob J Rebel 192/731
----- Original Message -----
From: "Garry Wright" <wrightdg@davincibb.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 7:40 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] seat frame material

Thanks again Bob and Drew.

Bob - I don't see an angle brace in the CD copy of the manual. The seat
in the CD is taller than the one I have but otherwise the same. The only
attachment on this back-frame is the hinge thingy. Not sure how to put
an angle brace on without interfering with the existing upholstery.

We have a piece of solid aluminum rod that fits tightly inside the frame
and even without welding should be strong enough. I will get a neighbor
to weld it Monday and then re-assemble before going off to Arlington and
OSH with the ramblers.

I swapped the little used passenger seatback to the pilot side so Ron
will get the repaired seat on his side. There will be lots of junk in
the back so it won't have any tendency to move back.

Garry
068R

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Garry Wright

[rebel-builders] seat frame material

Post by Garry Wright » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:12 pm

I will do my best to get this fixed before you depart but if I have
trouble it may work well to have you bring one seat back for the
passenger side of course. I swapped the passenger back to the pilot seat
on the theory that the fix will probably be weaker than the original.
I'm fairly sure I'll get it fixed but will let you know Monday evening.

Garry

Ron Shannon wrote:
Garry,

Just caught up with this thread.

I have the new seat backs. Ordered them specially. I also have
completely new upholstered cushions from Oregon Aero. They use a canvas
sling (like many certificated plane seats) both bottom and back, instead
of the aluminum panels that require several dozen rivets through the
frames, so these are an even more optimal design that way. They're in a
box. It might be possible for me to get them there, or we could pick
them up here -- worst case.

The new seat backs are "a good idea". Lots of discussion about the
failings of the old ones in the archives. As Jim LePard (A&P who started
my 254R) put it, "A collapsing seat back in a crash is not a survivable
event."

Of course, as long as it's just the left seat.... :-)

Ron

PS - More on trip prep soon. I'm on it more or less full time from here
on out.


Garry Wright wrote:
Thanks Bob. Wow. That seat could hold 3 of me easily. It is way stronger
than what I have. I will see if I can do something like that and not
screw up the upholstery too much.

Garry

Robert Johnson wrote:
Gary, I sent a return message direct to you with pictures attached. Let me
know if you get it O.K. Bob J Rebel 192/731
----- Original Message -----
From: "Garry Wright" <wrightdg@davincibb.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 7:40 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] seat frame material


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