Do you want this big green box to go away? Well here's how...

Click here for full update

Wildcat! photo archives restored.

Click here for full update

Donors can now disable ads.

Click here for instructions

Add yourself to the user map.

Click here for instructions

[rebel-builders] Horizontal Stabilizer

Converted from Wildcat! database. (read only)
C&P Kucera

[rebel-builders] Horizontal Stabilizer

Post by C&P Kucera » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:27 am

I ordered and installed the same brass bushes that are used on the
flaperons. I reamed the aluminum brackets for slide fit, press fit would add
stresses. To stop the bushing from rotating I put in one 3/32 solid flush
rivet thru the bushing flange and the bracket. I had this OKd by MAM.
The inside brackets (the ones at the horns) work harder than the ones on the
ends so I made them from 1/4" thick 6061 T6 alum angle and the one on the
bottom of the rudder from 3/16 steel angle because with 1/4" alum my rudder
did not fit. My elevators and rudder ride on the flanges of the bushings.
I only did all this because I saw some significantly worn bracket holes on
some well enjoyed Rebels.
Now Im just building by the manual, no improvements at all except for "the
must do Rebel beef-ups", so that I get it done and flying.

Paul K
Mississauga
rebel 453R


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jones, Michael" <Michael.Jones@snclavalin.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 8:47 AM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Horizontal Stabilizer

Ken

Believe on builder from stoney creek put brass bushings in all locations
on
tail feathers, might have even been approve by Murphy but it would have to
be confirmed to be sure

mike

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Ken
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 8:30 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Horizontal Stabilizer

The thing is that the bolt itself has little ability to resist side
loading or wobble. It is the 3/8 steel bushing tight against the spar
cap that provides most of the resistance to side to side movement of the
bolt. I would not be comfortable simply replacing the steel AIL-26
sleeve with a plastic part.

The other proposal made from time to time is to bush the holes that the
AIL-26 goes into. Except for the bottom of the rudder, I'd guess that
the 3/8" id x 1/2" od flanged bushings would be fine. It does not sound
like this is really a high wear area though and my aluminum brackets
don't have a lot of extra metal there to drill out. The next question
would be - can you actually source the bushings without buying a
thousand of them, or do you have a lathe to make your own? The flange
will take up a bit of space if the control surface is a tight fit. Wayne
might comment, but I consider most of those plastics with various trade
names like acetal, acetron, etc. to be equivalent to delrin. Anyway I
built to the plans, assembled them with grease, and will bush them later
if they wear.

I did put a brass bushing at the bottom of the rudder though. That
lower bushing does have higher loading than the others and it does
collect a lot more dirt ,oil, and water, than the others. Maybe it
wouldn't collect the dirt if it was plastic and dry instead of oiled but
in my mind the loading might be a bit high for plastic??

Ken

rognal@dcsol.com wrote:
Question: If the Rebel rudder/elevator pivot bolts/bushings/brackets are
high wear areas, and if these bolts/bushings do not need to be "too
tight",
why not replace the steel bushing(s) with a synthetic (?) bushing such as
these:

http://qbcbearings.com/RFQ/B610HTML/B610P116.html Plain sleeve
bearing/machined acetron/non-metallic/self-lubricating,

Or http://qbcbearings.com/RFQ/B610HTML/B610P118.html Plain sleeve
bearing/non-metallic/teflon

Or something similiar ie; nylon, delrin, etc.

I have no real familiarity with the properties of any of this material,
but
it seems I've seen most of it described as having high wear and self
lubricating properties.

Under 'not too tight' conditions could these synthetic bushings be
suitable
as a replacement bushing with no need for additional lubrication.

Thanks for any comments.

Roger Hoffman #687R
Eugene, OR USA!




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------






-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------







-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Jones, Michael

[rebel-builders] Horizontal Stabilizer

Post by Jones, Michael » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:27 am

Paul

Can you post pictures of this mod you have done

Mike#007

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of C&P
Kucera
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 9:15 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Horizontal Stabilizer

I ordered and installed the same brass bushes that are used on the
flaperons. I reamed the aluminum brackets for slide fit, press fit would add

stresses. To stop the bushing from rotating I put in one 3/32 solid flush
rivet thru the bushing flange and the bracket. I had this OKd by MAM.
The inside brackets (the ones at the horns) work harder than the ones on the

ends so I made them from 1/4" thick 6061 T6 alum angle and the one on the
bottom of the rudder from 3/16 steel angle because with 1/4" alum my rudder
did not fit. My elevators and rudder ride on the flanges of the bushings.
I only did all this because I saw some significantly worn bracket holes on
some well enjoyed Rebels.
Now Im just building by the manual, no improvements at all except for "the
must do Rebel beef-ups", so that I get it done and flying.

Paul K
Mississauga
rebel 453R


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jones, Michael" <Michael.Jones@snclavalin.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 8:47 AM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Horizontal Stabilizer

Ken

Believe on builder from stoney creek put brass bushings in all locations
on
tail feathers, might have even been approve by Murphy but it would have to
be confirmed to be sure

mike

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Ken
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 8:30 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Horizontal Stabilizer

The thing is that the bolt itself has little ability to resist side
loading or wobble. It is the 3/8 steel bushing tight against the spar
cap that provides most of the resistance to side to side movement of the
bolt. I would not be comfortable simply replacing the steel AIL-26
sleeve with a plastic part.

The other proposal made from time to time is to bush the holes that the
AIL-26 goes into. Except for the bottom of the rudder, I'd guess that
the 3/8" id x 1/2" od flanged bushings would be fine. It does not sound
like this is really a high wear area though and my aluminum brackets
don't have a lot of extra metal there to drill out. The next question
would be - can you actually source the bushings without buying a
thousand of them, or do you have a lathe to make your own? The flange
will take up a bit of space if the control surface is a tight fit. Wayne
might comment, but I consider most of those plastics with various trade
names like acetal, acetron, etc. to be equivalent to delrin. Anyway I
built to the plans, assembled them with grease, and will bush them later
if they wear.

I did put a brass bushing at the bottom of the rudder though. That
lower bushing does have higher loading than the others and it does
collect a lot more dirt ,oil, and water, than the others. Maybe it
wouldn't collect the dirt if it was plastic and dry instead of oiled but
in my mind the loading might be a bit high for plastic??

Ken

rognal@dcsol.com wrote:
Question: If the Rebel rudder/elevator pivot bolts/bushings/brackets are
high wear areas, and if these bolts/bushings do not need to be "too
tight",
why not replace the steel bushing(s) with a synthetic (?) bushing such as
these:

http://qbcbearings.com/RFQ/B610HTML/B610P116.html Plain sleeve
bearing/machined acetron/non-metallic/self-lubricating,

Or http://qbcbearings.com/RFQ/B610HTML/B610P118.html Plain sleeve
bearing/non-metallic/teflon

Or something similiar ie; nylon, delrin, etc.

I have no real familiarity with the properties of any of this material,
but
it seems I've seen most of it described as having high wear and self
lubricating properties.

Under 'not too tight' conditions could these synthetic bushings be
suitable
as a replacement bushing with no need for additional lubrication.

Thanks for any comments.

Roger Hoffman #687R
Eugene, OR USA!




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------






-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------







-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------






-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

C&P Kucera

[rebel-builders] Horizontal Stabilizer

Post by C&P Kucera » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:30 am

I will upload a few this weekend.

paul

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jones, Michael" <Michael.Jones@snclavalin.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 9:15 AM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Horizontal Stabilizer

Paul

Can you post pictures of this mod you have done

Mike#007

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of C&P
Kucera
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 9:15 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Horizontal Stabilizer

I ordered and installed the same brass bushes that are used on the
flaperons. I reamed the aluminum brackets for slide fit, press fit would
add

stresses. To stop the bushing from rotating I put in one 3/32 solid flush
rivet thru the bushing flange and the bracket. I had this OKd by MAM.
The inside brackets (the ones at the horns) work harder than the ones on
the

ends so I made them from 1/4" thick 6061 T6 alum angle and the one on the
bottom of the rudder from 3/16 steel angle because with 1/4" alum my
rudder
did not fit. My elevators and rudder ride on the flanges of the bushings.
I only did all this because I saw some significantly worn bracket holes on
some well enjoyed Rebels.
Now Im just building by the manual, no improvements at all except for "the
must do Rebel beef-ups", so that I get it done and flying.

Paul K
Mississauga
rebel 453R


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jones, Michael" <Michael.Jones@snclavalin.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 8:47 AM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Horizontal Stabilizer

Ken

Believe on builder from stoney creek put brass bushings in all locations
on
tail feathers, might have even been approve by Murphy but it would have
to
be confirmed to be sure

mike

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Ken
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 8:30 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Horizontal Stabilizer

The thing is that the bolt itself has little ability to resist side
loading or wobble. It is the 3/8 steel bushing tight against the spar
cap that provides most of the resistance to side to side movement of the
bolt. I would not be comfortable simply replacing the steel AIL-26
sleeve with a plastic part.

The other proposal made from time to time is to bush the holes that the
AIL-26 goes into. Except for the bottom of the rudder, I'd guess that
the 3/8" id x 1/2" od flanged bushings would be fine. It does not sound
like this is really a high wear area though and my aluminum brackets
don't have a lot of extra metal there to drill out. The next question
would be - can you actually source the bushings without buying a
thousand of them, or do you have a lathe to make your own? The flange
will take up a bit of space if the control surface is a tight fit. Wayne
might comment, but I consider most of those plastics with various trade
names like acetal, acetron, etc. to be equivalent to delrin. Anyway I
built to the plans, assembled them with grease, and will bush them later
if they wear.

I did put a brass bushing at the bottom of the rudder though. That
lower bushing does have higher loading than the others and it does
collect a lot more dirt ,oil, and water, than the others. Maybe it
wouldn't collect the dirt if it was plastic and dry instead of oiled but
in my mind the loading might be a bit high for plastic??

Ken

rognal@dcsol.com wrote:
Question: If the Rebel rudder/elevator pivot bolts/bushings/brackets are
high wear areas, and if these bolts/bushings do not need to be "too
tight",
why not replace the steel bushing(s) with a synthetic (?) bushing such as
these:

http://qbcbearings.com/RFQ/B610HTML/B610P116.html Plain sleeve
bearing/machined acetron/non-metallic/self-lubricating,

Or http://qbcbearings.com/RFQ/B610HTML/B610P118.html Plain sleeve
bearing/non-metallic/teflon

Or something similiar ie; nylon, delrin, etc.

I have no real familiarity with the properties of any of this material,
but
it seems I've seen most of it described as having high wear and self
lubricating properties.

Under 'not too tight' conditions could these synthetic bushings be
suitable
as a replacement bushing with no need for additional lubrication.

Thanks for any comments.

Roger Hoffman #687R
Eugene, OR USA!




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------






-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------







-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------






-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------







-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

C&P Kucera

[rebel-builders] Horizontal Stabilizer

Post by C&P Kucera » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:30 am

I have uploaded a bunch of pictures of the elevator bracket with brass
bushing into the Rebel Elevator picture folder for anyone interested.

The brass flanges on the factory bushings were thicker than the heads of the
stainless rivets holding the horns, the rivets clear the bracket by about
.012" in my case. I added a thin nylon washer under the rudder to increase
this clearance a bit more.

Paul

Rebel 453R

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jones, Michael" <Michael.Jones@snclavalin.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 9:15 AM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Horizontal Stabilizer

Paul

Can you post pictures of this mod you have done

Mike#007

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of C&P
Kucera
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 9:15 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Horizontal Stabilizer

I ordered and installed the same brass bushes that are used on the
flaperons. I reamed the aluminum brackets for slide fit, press fit would
add

stresses. To stop the bushing from rotating I put in one 3/32 solid flush
rivet thru the bushing flange and the bracket. I had this OKd by MAM.
The inside brackets (the ones at the horns) work harder than the ones on
the

ends so I made them from 1/4" thick 6061 T6 alum angle and the one on the
bottom of the rudder from 3/16 steel angle because with 1/4" alum my
rudder
did not fit. My elevators and rudder ride on the flanges of the bushings.
I only did all this because I saw some significantly worn bracket holes on
some well enjoyed Rebels.
Now Im just building by the manual, no improvements at all except for "the
must do Rebel beef-ups", so that I get it done and flying.

Paul K
Mississauga
rebel 453R


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jones, Michael" <Michael.Jones@snclavalin.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 8:47 AM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Horizontal Stabilizer

Ken

Believe on builder from stoney creek put brass bushings in all locations
on
tail feathers, might have even been approve by Murphy but it would have
to
be confirmed to be sure

mike

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Ken
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 8:30 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Horizontal Stabilizer

The thing is that the bolt itself has little ability to resist side
loading or wobble. It is the 3/8 steel bushing tight against the spar
cap that provides most of the resistance to side to side movement of the
bolt. I would not be comfortable simply replacing the steel AIL-26
sleeve with a plastic part.

The other proposal made from time to time is to bush the holes that the
AIL-26 goes into. Except for the bottom of the rudder, I'd guess that
the 3/8" id x 1/2" od flanged bushings would be fine. It does not sound
like this is really a high wear area though and my aluminum brackets
don't have a lot of extra metal there to drill out. The next question
would be - can you actually source the bushings without buying a
thousand of them, or do you have a lathe to make your own? The flange
will take up a bit of space if the control surface is a tight fit. Wayne
might comment, but I consider most of those plastics with various trade
names like acetal, acetron, etc. to be equivalent to delrin. Anyway I
built to the plans, assembled them with grease, and will bush them later
if they wear.

I did put a brass bushing at the bottom of the rudder though. That
lower bushing does have higher loading than the others and it does
collect a lot more dirt ,oil, and water, than the others. Maybe it
wouldn't collect the dirt if it was plastic and dry instead of oiled but
in my mind the loading might be a bit high for plastic??

Ken

rognal@dcsol.com wrote:
Question: If the Rebel rudder/elevator pivot bolts/bushings/brackets are
high wear areas, and if these bolts/bushings do not need to be "too
tight",
why not replace the steel bushing(s) with a synthetic (?) bushing such as
these:

http://qbcbearings.com/RFQ/B610HTML/B610P116.html Plain sleeve
bearing/machined acetron/non-metallic/self-lubricating,

Or http://qbcbearings.com/RFQ/B610HTML/B610P118.html Plain sleeve
bearing/non-metallic/teflon

Or something similiar ie; nylon, delrin, etc.

I have no real familiarity with the properties of any of this material,
but
it seems I've seen most of it described as having high wear and self
lubricating properties.

Under 'not too tight' conditions could these synthetic bushings be
suitable
as a replacement bushing with no need for additional lubrication.

Thanks for any comments.

Roger Hoffman #687R
Eugene, OR USA!




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------






-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------







-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------






-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------







-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Ken

[rebel-builders] Horizontal Stabilizer

Post by Ken » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:30 am

Very nice work Paul!
Ken

C&P Kucera wrote:
I have uploaded a bunch of pictures of the elevator bracket with brass
bushing into the Rebel Elevator picture folder for anyone interested.

The brass flanges on the factory bushings were thicker than the heads of the
stainless rivets holding the horns, the rivets clear the bracket by about
.012" in my case. I added a thin nylon washer under the rudder to increase
this clearance a bit more.

Paul

Rebel 453R




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------


C&P Kucera

[rebel-builders] Horizontal Stabilizer

Post by C&P Kucera » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:30 am

Thanks Ken,

Bob P said it, but I forgot, that the OD of the bushing flanges has to be
turned from 1.25" dia down to 1" plus a small chamfer may be needed to
ensure rivet clearance.

paul


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 8:23 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Horizontal Stabilizer

Very nice work Paul!
Ken

C&P Kucera wrote:
I have uploaded a bunch of pictures of the elevator bracket with brass
bushing into the Rebel Elevator picture folder for anyone interested.

The brass flanges on the factory bushings were thicker than the heads of
the
stainless rivets holding the horns, the rivets clear the bracket by about
.012" in my case. I added a thin nylon washer under the rudder to increase
this clearance a bit more.

Paul

Rebel 453R




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------







-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------


Locked