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question from interested audience member

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Bob Patterson

question from interested audience member

Post by Bob Patterson » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:47 pm

Hi Bill !

I use full flaps for landing AND takeoff - the flaps are designed
to lower the stall speed & reduce takeoff distance, so I USE them ! I do
raise the flaps to one or 2 notches after takeoff, for best climb, but
she sure leaps into the air (saves wear on the tires :-) ) !

My approaches are flown 'glider-style' - high enough to glide in
from anywhere around the field. I use full flaps, and about 70 -75 MPH
for a steep final. This gets you down through wind shear with no problems,
and the speed bleeds off quickly once you flare, but it gives you time
to get the tail down to the right angle. I have crossed the numbers at
1,000 ft., and made the first turnoff !! The Rebel does very nice
3 point landings - I've NEVER had any reason to do a wheel landing,
other than for practice, on days when I'm feeling a little sharper
than usual ;-) Have landed with 25 KT crosswind at 90 degrees with
full flap - no problems. (Would have landed ACROSS the ONLY runway, but
we were 'tourists', and didn't want to upset anybody :-) )

I've found that Rebels will develop a VERY high sink rate if you
approach below 60 mph, and, while you still have good pitch control, you
can't stop the sink without power - many folks hit hard because, although
you can raise the nose to flare, you keep on coming down !

One thing you could check - make sure you have AT LEAST 27 degrees
of UP elevator (the book only calls for 25 - this is usually NOT enough).
Also, double check the CofG position - you might try putting 50 or 100 lb
in the baggage area, tied down.

For test flights, I use 1/2 tanks (not full), 27 - 30 degrees of
up elevator, and try to put at least 50 lb in the baggage area. This
combination makes for safe, comfortable first flights - there are always
enough OTHER things to worry about !!

Glad to hear your IVO Magnum is working well. Maybe they've
fixed the problems. Kent had a LOT of cracking near the root on both
of his Magnums... I <also> have found that 2 blades always work
better than 3 OR 4 blades. Something to do with disturbing more air for
the extra blade(s)...

Good luck with the landings !
....bobp

--------------------------------orig.-----------------------------------
At 12:32 AM 5/19/00 EDT, you wrote:
BOB P.
DO YOU USE USE FULL FLAPS WHEN MAKING 'NORMAL' LANDINGS? DO YOU DO 3-POINT
OR WHEEL. I HAVE 125 HOURS ON #376 AND STILL CAN'T LAND IT WORTH A DARN.
ONE GOOD THING, HOWEVER, IS THAT IT IS SO FORGIVING ON THE GROUND.

BILL N
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BILNEWKIRK

question from interested audience member

Post by BILNEWKIRK » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:47 pm

BOB P.
THANKS FOR THE TIPS ON LANDING. I HAVE BEEN USING 60 - 65 ON FINAL. I'LL
TAKE YOUR SUGGESTION AND SPEED IT UP .

BILL N.
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Bob Patterson

question from interested audience member

Post by Bob Patterson » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:47 pm

Hope it helps ! Keep us posted on results ....

.....bobp

-----------------------------orig.-------------------------------------------
At 06:41 PM 5/19/00 EDT, you wrote:
BOB P.
THANKS FOR THE TIPS ON LANDING. I HAVE BEEN USING 60 - 65 ON FINAL. I'LL
TAKE YOUR SUGGESTION AND SPEED IT UP .

BILL N.
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
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The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------*

*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*




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rebelair

question from interested audience member

Post by rebelair » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:47 pm

Hi There

I normally fly the final at 50 Kts or 57 mph. You have to use about 200-300
rpm of throttle briefly to arrest the sink rate and it lands just fine. If
however, you let the speed drop off to 52-53 mph or so, you will quickly
need to add power in the flare as the sink rate gets high pretty quick. And
you better be quick or you could smack it on. I have no intention of
testing the design limits of the gear.

If I make the approach at 70 mph, you will be flying for awhile and you can
watch a couple of turnoffs go by before she slows down. Landing speed is
important in the Rebel just like any other plane I have flown.

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson [mailto:bob.patterson@canrem.com]
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 10:14 AM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: Re: question from interested audience member



Hi Bill !

I use full flaps for landing AND takeoff - the flaps are designed
to lower the stall speed & reduce takeoff distance, so I USE them ! I do
raise the flaps to one or 2 notches after takeoff, for best climb, but
she sure leaps into the air (saves wear on the tires :-) ) !

My approaches are flown 'glider-style' - high enough to glide in
from anywhere around the field. I use full flaps, and about 70 -75 MPH
for a steep final. This gets you down through wind shear with no problems,
and the speed bleeds off quickly once you flare, but it gives you time
to get the tail down to the right angle. I have crossed the numbers at
1,000 ft., and made the first turnoff !! The Rebel does very nice
3 point landings - I've NEVER had any reason to do a wheel landing,
other than for practice, on days when I'm feeling a little sharper
than usual ;-) Have landed with 25 KT crosswind at 90 degrees with
full flap - no problems. (Would have landed ACROSS the ONLY runway, but
we were 'tourists', and didn't want to upset anybody :-) )

I've found that Rebels will develop a VERY high sink rate if you
approach below 60 mph, and, while you still have good pitch control, you
can't stop the sink without power - many folks hit hard because, although
you can raise the nose to flare, you keep on coming down !

One thing you could check - make sure you have AT LEAST 27 degrees
of UP elevator (the book only calls for 25 - this is usually NOT enough).
Also, double check the CofG position - you might try putting 50 or 100 lb
in the baggage area, tied down.

For test flights, I use 1/2 tanks (not full), 27 - 30 degrees of
up elevator, and try to put at least 50 lb in the baggage area. This
combination makes for safe, comfortable first flights - there are always
enough OTHER things to worry about !!

Glad to hear your IVO Magnum is working well. Maybe they've
fixed the problems. Kent had a LOT of cracking near the root on both
of his Magnums... I <also> have found that 2 blades always work
better than 3 OR 4 blades. Something to do with disturbing more air for
the extra blade(s)...

Good luck with the landings !
....bobp

--------------------------------orig.-----------------------------------
At 12:32 AM 5/19/00 EDT, you wrote:
BOB P.
DO YOU USE USE FULL FLAPS WHEN MAKING 'NORMAL' LANDINGS? DO YOU DO 3-POINT
OR WHEEL. I HAVE 125 HOURS ON #376 AND STILL CAN'T LAND IT WORTH A DARN.
ONE GOOD THING, HOWEVER, IS THAT IT IS SO FORGIVING ON THE GROUND.

BILL N
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------*

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*

*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
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-----------------------------------------------------------------

Bob Patterson

question from interested audience member

Post by Bob Patterson » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:47 pm

You DO have the advantage of those wonderful Hoerner wing tips, though !
They probably help quite a bit at the low end of the speed range ....

.....bobp

------------------------------orig.-------------------------------------
At 12:12 AM 5/20/00 -0400, you wrote:
Hi There

I normally fly the final at 50 Kts or 57 mph. You have to use about 200-300
rpm of throttle briefly to arrest the sink rate and it lands just fine. If
however, you let the speed drop off to 52-53 mph or so, you will quickly
need to add power in the flare as the sink rate gets high pretty quick. And
you better be quick or you could smack it on. I have no intention of
testing the design limits of the gear.

If I make the approach at 70 mph, you will be flying for awhile and you can
watch a couple of turnoffs go by before she slows down. Landing speed is
important in the Rebel just like any other plane I have flown.

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson [mailto:bob.patterson@canrem.com]
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 10:14 AM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: Re: question from interested audience member



Hi Bill !

I use full flaps for landing AND takeoff - the flaps are designed
to lower the stall speed & reduce takeoff distance, so I USE them ! I do
raise the flaps to one or 2 notches after takeoff, for best climb, but
she sure leaps into the air (saves wear on the tires :-) ) !

My approaches are flown 'glider-style' - high enough to glide in
from anywhere around the field. I use full flaps, and about 70 -75 MPH
for a steep final. This gets you down through wind shear with no problems,
and the speed bleeds off quickly once you flare, but it gives you time
to get the tail down to the right angle. I have crossed the numbers at
1,000 ft., and made the first turnoff !! The Rebel does very nice
3 point landings - I've NEVER had any reason to do a wheel landing,
other than for practice, on days when I'm feeling a little sharper
than usual ;-) Have landed with 25 KT crosswind at 90 degrees with
full flap - no problems. (Would have landed ACROSS the ONLY runway, but
we were 'tourists', and didn't want to upset anybody :-) )

I've found that Rebels will develop a VERY high sink rate if you
approach below 60 mph, and, while you still have good pitch control, you
can't stop the sink without power - many folks hit hard because, although
you can raise the nose to flare, you keep on coming down !

One thing you could check - make sure you have AT LEAST 27 degrees
of UP elevator (the book only calls for 25 - this is usually NOT enough).
Also, double check the CofG position - you might try putting 50 or 100 lb
in the baggage area, tied down.

For test flights, I use 1/2 tanks (not full), 27 - 30 degrees of
up elevator, and try to put at least 50 lb in the baggage area. This
combination makes for safe, comfortable first flights - there are always
enough OTHER things to worry about !!

Glad to hear your IVO Magnum is working well. Maybe they've
fixed the problems. Kent had a LOT of cracking near the root on both
of his Magnums... I <also> have found that 2 blades always work
better than 3 OR 4 blades. Something to do with disturbing more air for
the extra blade(s)...

Good luck with the landings !
....bobp

--------------------------------orig.-----------------------------------
At 12:32 AM 5/19/00 EDT, you wrote:
BOB P.
DO YOU USE USE FULL FLAPS WHEN MAKING 'NORMAL' LANDINGS? DO YOU DO 3-POINT
OR WHEEL. I HAVE 125 HOURS ON #376 AND STILL CAN'T LAND IT WORTH A DARN.
ONE GOOD THING, HOWEVER, IS THAT IT IS SO FORGIVING ON THE GROUND.

BILL N
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------*

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*

*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------*

*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------


Alister Yeoman

question from interested audience member

Post by Alister Yeoman » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:47 pm

Hi there,
I haven't put my two cents worth in for a while although I
have been following the discussions. The Rebel ( mine is an 0-320) is very
sensitive to power on approach, if you intend to round out without power it
pays to keep the speed up to that 50 Kt mark on finals otherwise you will
develop a high sink rate, but if you want to land short, the Rebel can come
way back on speed as long as you use power, you dont really get the aircraft
under control speed wise until you are down to about 40Kts. On short finals
onto a short strip I am quite often indicating 30 odd Kts and it is still
flying really well ( dont pull the power off though!). This seems to be a
real strength of the Rebel, give it a touch of power and it is flying.

Cheers

Alister

-----Original Message-----
From: rebelair <rebelair@idirect.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Saturday, May 20, 2000 4:14 PM
Subject: RE: question from interested audience member

Hi There

I normally fly the final at 50 Kts or 57 mph. You have to use about
200-300
rpm of throttle briefly to arrest the sink rate and it lands just fine. If
however, you let the speed drop off to 52-53 mph or so, you will quickly
need to add power in the flare as the sink rate gets high pretty quick.
And
you better be quick or you could smack it on. I have no intention of
testing the design limits of the gear.

If I make the approach at 70 mph, you will be flying for awhile and you can
watch a couple of turnoffs go by before she slows down. Landing speed is
important in the Rebel just like any other plane I have flown.

Brian #328R

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson [mailto:bob.patterson@canrem.com]
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 10:14 AM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: Re: question from interested audience member


*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*




-----------------------------------------------------------------
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