amphib hydraulic gear pump

[klehman]

Hi

Does the "push down on the handle for pressure" pump installation create a
problem for stowing the pump handle when the gear reaches the full down or full
up position? Or can the handle be forced down into the stowed position? My pump
handle will be forward of the seat backs so having it stuck in the up position
would not be acceptable.

The pump exploded diagram acutually shows the handle reversed to a "pull up on
the handle for pressure" situation. In that case the handle could always easily
be returned to the full down stowed position. Ergonomically this might be more
awkward to pull up on the handle if the pump requires a lot of force though. How
much effort (force) does the handle actually require?

I am trying to plan for an underfloor hydraulic line to the reservoir. And for
the pump handle to not conflict with the placement of the forward elevator cable
pulley.

thanks
Ken

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[Bob Patterson]

Ken,
No problem lowering the handle - when you hit full down (or up),
just switch the gear position valve to the middle & it releases pressure.
Only saw one Rebel with 'pull up' handle - this strikes me as REALLY
awkward ! It is much easier to push down. The force required is not
great - not as much as required to pull Cessna flaps down (for those
who remember the mechanical flaps), or Super Cub flaps. About 16 strokes
are needed, and must be slow, to allow fluid time to enter. (** NOTE
that Murphy use Automatic Transmission Fluid rather than brake fluid -
it does the same job, but doesn't destroy paint if spilled/leaked.**)
My reservoir is on the firewall, passenger side - just a quart can
with mods for sight guage and fittings.

Another thought is to have an extensible handle - mine has an
inner and outer tube. The outer tube is free to slide forward, increasing
the leverage, then slide back to get it more out of the way. This could
be improved with pins in slots to allow twist-locking in either position.
A carved oak (or similar) grip would be nice too ...

I would be more inclined to try to run the hoses above the floor,
down the center, on either side of the pulleys. They will be easier to get
at for service, and to remove for changeover to wheels/skis in winter.
They will hide nicely under lightweight carpet ... Ask me to open
up FOKM before the next meeting, so you can check it out (not that it
might be a shining example, but good for some ideas :-) )

....bobp

------------------------------orig.---------------------------------------
At 10:20 AM 4/29/00 -0400, you wrote:

Hi

Does the "push down on the handle for pressure" pump installation create a
problem for stowing the pump handle when the gear reaches the full down or full
up position? Or can the handle be forced down into the stowed position? My pump
handle will be forward of the seat backs so having it stuck in the up position
would not be acceptable.

The pump exploded diagram acutually shows the handle reversed to a "pull up on
the handle for pressure" situation. In that case the handle could always easily
be returned to the full down stowed position. Ergonomically this might be more
awkward to pull up on the handle if the pump requires a lot of force

though. How

much effort (force) does the handle actually require?

I am trying to plan for an underfloor hydraulic line to the reservoir. And for
the pump handle to not conflict with the placement of the forward elevator

cable

pulley.

thanks
Ken

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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

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Your following message has been delivered to the 155 members of
the list murphy-rebel@dcsol.com at 16:32:57 on 29 Apr 2000.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


That's the way the customer wanted it Bob, because a persons arm is designed
to pull, not push. Also allowed the handle to be pushed down between the
seats without dumping pressure to do so!

Speaking of floats what happened to the "crate" and are you still wanting to
have me remove yours??

Blue skies,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Saturday, April 29, 2000 2:36 PM
Subject: Re: amphib hydraulic gear pump

Only saw one Rebel with 'pull up' handle - this strikes me as REALLY
awkward ! It is much easier to push down.

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[klehman]

Rick, Bob, Wayne

You guys are very generous. You have answered several more questions than I
asked, including confirming my suspicion that the outlet hole in my plastic oil
reservoir is on the tiny side.

thank you
Ken




"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:

That's the way the customer wanted it Bob, because a persons arm is designed
to pull, not push. Also allowed the handle to be pushed down between the
seats without dumping pressure to do so!

Speaking of floats what happened to the "crate" and are you still wanting to
have me remove yours??

Blue skies,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Saturday, April 29, 2000 2:36 PM
Subject: Re: amphib hydraulic gear pump

Only saw one Rebel with 'pull up' handle - this strikes me as REALLY
awkward ! It is much easier to push down.

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Archives located at:
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*--------------------------------------------------------------------------

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[Gary Lessard]

This is not a reply to your Email, but does anyone out there have any
ideas about how to get off the mailing list? I only get to check my mail
once every couple of weeks and the number of them I have to check is
enormous.

Thanks

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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

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Your following message has been delivered to the 155 members of
the list murphy-rebel@dcsol.com at 19:54:05 on 29 Apr 2000.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Ken, if you have the MAM supplied reservoir (radiator overflow bottle) with
the in and out fittings on opposite sides. Howard's works fine as is! Primes
easily (on the down stroke) and no desire to "cavitate" with his reservoir
away down the tail cone by the elevator pulley bulkhead! I guess if you are
worried about it though, you could ream out the reservoir outlet a bit!

Blue skies,
Wayne

-----Original Message-----
From: klehman@albedo.net <klehman@albedo.net>
To: (Murphy Rebel Builders List) <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Saturday, April 29, 2000 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: amphib hydraulic gear pump

Rick, Bob, Wayne

You guys are very generous. You have answered several more questions than I
asked, including confirming my suspicion that the outlet hole in my plastic

oil

reservoir is on the tiny side.

thank you
Ken




"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:

That's the way the customer wanted it Bob, because a persons arm is

designed

to pull, not push. Also allowed the handle to be pushed down between the
seats without dumping pressure to do so!

Speaking of floats what happened to the "crate" and are you still wanting

to

have me remove yours??

Blue skies,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Saturday, April 29, 2000 2:36 PM
Subject: Re: amphib hydraulic gear pump

Only saw one Rebel with 'pull up' handle - this strikes me as REALLY
awkward ! It is much easier to push down.

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between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm

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The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
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Archives located at:
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The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Archives located at:
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[rebelair]

Hi Bob

I just wanted to rephrase my comment. Your Rebels did not look like they
needed to go flying, they looked just fine. I think they wanted to go
flying. No insult intended. Sorry about that.

Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson [mailto:bob.patterson@canrem.com]
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2000 2:36 PM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: Re: amphib hydraulic gear pump



Ken,
No problem lowering the handle - when you hit full down (or up),
just switch the gear position valve to the middle & it releases pressure.
Only saw one Rebel with 'pull up' handle - this strikes me as REALLY
awkward ! It is much easier to push down. The force required is not
great - not as much as required to pull Cessna flaps down (for those
who remember the mechanical flaps), or Super Cub flaps. About 16 strokes
are needed, and must be slow, to allow fluid time to enter. (** NOTE
that Murphy use Automatic Transmission Fluid rather than brake fluid -
it does the same job, but doesn't destroy paint if spilled/leaked.**)
My reservoir is on the firewall, passenger side - just a quart can
with mods for sight guage and fittings.

Another thought is to have an extensible handle - mine has an
inner and outer tube. The outer tube is free to slide forward, increasing
the leverage, then slide back to get it more out of the way. This could
be improved with pins in slots to allow twist-locking in either position.
A carved oak (or similar) grip would be nice too ...

I would be more inclined to try to run the hoses above the floor,
down the center, on either side of the pulleys. They will be easier to get
at for service, and to remove for changeover to wheels/skis in winter.
They will hide nicely under lightweight carpet ... Ask me to open
up FOKM before the next meeting, so you can check it out (not that it
might be a shining example, but good for some ideas :-) )

....bobp

------------------------------orig.---------------------------------------
At 10:20 AM 4/29/00 -0400, you wrote:

Hi

Does the "push down on the handle for pressure" pump installation create a
problem for stowing the pump handle when the gear reaches the full down or

full

up position? Or can the handle be forced down into the stowed position? My

pump

handle will be forward of the seat backs so having it stuck in the up

position

would not be acceptable.

The pump exploded diagram acutually shows the handle reversed to a "pull up

on

the handle for pressure" situation. In that case the handle could always

easily

be returned to the full down stowed position. Ergonomically this might be

more

awkward to pull up on the handle if the pump requires a lot of force

though. How

much effort (force) does the handle actually require?

I am trying to plan for an underfloor hydraulic line to the reservoir. And

for

the pump handle to not conflict with the placement of the forward elevator

cable

pulley.

thanks
Ken

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Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------

---------*

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*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*

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between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
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*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*




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[klehman]

Wayne

The reservoir does look a bit like a radiator bottle but the fittings are on the
top and bottom. The outer barb diameter is in fact too small for the prescribed
3/8" hose and the wall thickness is substantial as you surmise. An ideal
situation to promote cavitation so I will do something to reduce the restriction
and allow connecting at least the 3/8" hose. I would think that a return on the
side of the bottle would reduce the amount of aeration as well.

Do you also find Howard's pump setup awkward?

Ken

"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:

Ken, if you have the MAM supplied reservoir (radiator overflow bottle) with
the in and out fittings on opposite sides. Howard's works fine as is! Primes
easily (on the down stroke) and no desire to "cavitate" with his reservoir
away down the tail cone by the elevator pulley bulkhead! I guess if you are
worried about it though, you could ream out the reservoir outlet a bit!

Blue skies,
Wayne

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