in for the prototype on the Montana's either...Just like FOKM....according
to TC it was never on floats before I sent in an engine change W & B
including the floats in 2001 and she had been on amphibs (installed by MAM)
for MANY years before that.
There are many airplanes out there (Rebel's) that are operating with expired
C of A's because of engine changes from O-235's to O-320's as well. Just a
cautionary for those looking for a flying aircraft to purchase, be sure the
C of A info matches the airplane configuration. The C of A includes the
engine model...so if you change it....you're not legal anymore.
This also applies to airplanes on Amphibs. If you haven't sent at minimum a
W & B report to Transport Canada before flying, and of course photo copies
of the necessary installation entries and maintenance release statements in
your Tech and Journey logs then your aircraft is not legal. The way our
Ontario guys (well at least Juniper and Langford) are working it is that if
they have your paperwork you can immediately fly a Rebel on Murphy Amphibs
up to the weight listed on your C of A. You can not automatically add the 5%
or what ever weight you are asking for until they give you a new C of A at
the gross weight requested, or in the odd case these days have issued a
flight permit to go up and do a climb test at that weight before they will
give it to you. Generally thanks to the Rebel/Elite aircraft's climb history
we are getting the egg before the chicken here and are given the weight we
ask for and then are asked to submit a climb test after 5 hours of flight or
similar.
For those dealing with the TC guy in the London office I highly suggest you
avoid/ignore him and send your data attention Wayne Juniper - 4900 Yonge St
Toronto. Apparently they have a nice "anal retentive" in London that is
trying to set back the time dials at TC. He is threatening tribunal action
against a guy with a homebuilt PA-12 that was installed to CLAMAR amphibs at
Clair's, W & B and all paperwork done and then flown home. This TC guy is
pissed they didn't give him a reason to get out of the office and to come
and do a field inspection before flight. Guy apparently knows nothing about
amphibs/floats either to add to the misery!
With Alan on the Montana's, Randy Evans having his Rebel flying on CLAMAR
2200's and myself installing Robert White's CLAMAR's to his Elite this
winter.... I think we should all have our avenues paved (in Canada) for
installation of any of the three float choices to our Rebels and Elites with
very minimal fuss from Transport Canada.
Enough rambling....just trying to keep everyone safe and legal.
Cheers,
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 7:33 PM
Subject: Re: Murphy 1800 Amphib's user info required
willWalter:
I was meaning that at 2,200 the 1800s might get a little bogged down. I'd
imagine they might be kind of sluggish getting onto the step. But of
course, your Rebel will probably carry as much load at 1900 as my Elite
inat maybe 2050. I seem to take about 12 seconds solo, and about 35 seconds
at the 2,200 gross, all on pretty hot days. It was like that this ummer
thatOntario.
On the drop testing at 2200 lbs for the Montanas, Transport simply said
"installationthey had not approved a Murphy on Montanas before, and had no
Iinformation" on them. I guess if they'd checked with their YVR office,
they'd have found that the prototype Elite floatplane used them. Anyway,
thatwas able to pass them an Email from Montana quoting this drop test, and
seemed to satisfy them. Whether they'd have been satisfied with less, who
knows?
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 9:58 AM
Subject: RE: Murphy 1800 Amphib's user info required
Al, not sure what the toll is with lighter buoyancy. Is it harder
to get on the step or longer take-off runs? My Rebel is also
registered at 1900 pounds, and can tell you that is not a heavy
load for it. The only times when my Rebel has struggled on
take-off is at higher altitudes with a good load. At near sea
level I have yet to find any sort of limit. Weight certainly does
make a difference. I can take off solo in 10 seconds or less, but
that increases to over 20 seconds with a heavy load. Of course
glassy water lengthens a run, too. But 30 seconds would be a long
run for me (excluding high altitude lakes). Climb rate goes from
1100 fpm solo to 600 fpm with a heavy load (again at near sea
level).
The only time I don't like heavy loads is when I have to land in
rough water, and for that matter, light loads are not good
either. Not sure if more buoyancy would help with that. I think
that's where longer floats help.
As for the gear, it is stronger than it looks. So far no problems
with mine. Don't think I would want to drop it from too far, but
I just try to keep my landings gentle, which is pretty easy with
a little power.
Walter
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Alan Hepburn
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 5:26 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Murphy 1800 Amphib's user info required
In Canada, there is a formula for determining the max
gross, which has wing
area, flap area, power etc. as inputs. Of course,
there is also the issue
of g loading, but on floats I do not believe this is a
concern, as the
airplane flies so much slower. Let's say it's 25%
slower. That makes the
peak gust loading 50% less, so the stress on a
floatplane when hitting a
gust will actually be less than for the same landplane
at factory gross.
Transport Canada also wanted to know that the gear
could take it.
Fortunately, the Montana floats have been drop tested
at 2,200 lbs. I don't
know if an equivalent number exists for the Murphy
1800s, so that might be a
problem. Anyway, I think the lack of buoyancy would
really start to take a
toll with the smaller displacement.
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Davis" <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 2:44 AM
Subject: Re: Murphy 1800 Amphib's user info required
US when applying for
your gross weight on the Murphy Aircraft. There
is you must supply the
gross Rebel on 1800 amphibs This gives me a legal
load "factory" rated gross Although the Elite and Rebel my Rebel that heavy, lbs. has to hurt weight the factory lot of documentation to inspected my 2 kits would might like to consider the lbs, and have been
drop 2,200 lbs gross. I was with Transport Canada, what goes on in the my airplane came out
at Canadian rules (which
require claimed number of than just round the about 25 lbs left to
paint lbs less than the they're apparently who control
experimental permission from them to fit finished, and to satisfy relevant bits at the experience of operating 1800 direct with the following
and experience to
hopefully required guy's :-) ) both floats and float have any contact
details -------------------------------------------------------
------------------
- attempt to clear them of identical floats in unusual or undesirable on identical floats
used higher, and with the also need an
in-service validated in some way.
One service on aircraft types operation flown on
high-time mailshot to ask them the
hours negotiate on this
point exceed 2500 hours. excess of 300 hours of analysis or load testing
data such as FAR 23. Murphy Aircraft, but if
you analysis for the Elite is gross weight value? It -------------------------------------------------------
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