Shortening Elite elevator

Alan Hepburn · Post by **Alan Hepburn** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:09 am

Well, guys, I used a large set of snips and it came out OK. Of course, If
you haven't built it yet, then do the cutting before you put it together.

The one thing is, the spades are rather long and narrow when you're done,
and while they still have good strength for vertical loads, they're not not
so strong when subjected to lateral loads. By now, you're probably
thinking "He found that out the hard way", and you're right. I caught the
tip of the spade on the basement door when I was taking it to the hangar -
and instant crimped spade. And it didn't take much of a bump. It bent just
in front of the outboard end of the spar. The problem was solved by
re-skinning the spade, but the the doublers I suggested will hopefully
prevent a recurrence if somebody walks into the stab when it's on the ramp.
'Cause of the spade is bent, it will foul the horizontal stab, and that
could be unpleasant.

BTW, you can guarantee correct alignment of the spade when you're building
it by clecoing the ribs through the 3/16" tooling holes to a nice straight,
stiff piece of aluminum angle.

Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: Shortening Elite elevator

I'm planning on doing this mod this weekend. Robin says it's a good idea

and

he is hoping some info will be available in a couple weeks, sounds like

the

info is coming from Sean?? was getting it to Robin on what he done?

Anyway,

Al seems to have the direction, just set your table saw fence to 3-11/16"
and run each side through, and your done..........
What is the best way to cut the skin off with out making a mess? Snips?
Cutoff wheel? I'm pretty early in this project and don't have all the
sheetmetal skills down yet. Does the doubler you added seem necessary?
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 6:38 AM
Subject: Re: Shortening Elite elevator

No, you chop the span off the outboard edge of the spade, then re-locate
the
original tip ribs. Be sure to take care to maintain the alignment of

the

spade or it can wind up twisted. Come to think of it, if you already

have

the spade built, it would be a good idea to cleco the suggested 6" patch
that spans the roots of the ribs so you don't have to worry about
alignment
so much. I'm going over to the shop tonight to work on the retracts, so
will try to get a couple of pix.

I don't recommend you do it this way, but it's just as if you put the
elevator in a table saw and lopped about 3 11/16" off each end!

Al Hepburn

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: Shortening Elite elevator

I'm in the middle of building my elevator right now. It sure would be
nice
to hear how this thread comes out before I finish. If I understand

you,

won't this create a 3" space between the stab main spar and the

elevator

balance? Is the space filled in?
Mike Betti
E771

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey Steenson" <jsteenson1@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 5:29 PM
Subject: Shortening Elite elevator

whether
to
Robin
and
it

three

in

order
thought
I

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Bob Patterson · Post by **Bob Patterson** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:09 am

Hi Al, and other Elite-ists !

Just a thought - while shortening the spades is definitely

David Ricker · Post by **David Ricker** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:09 am

Bob

When I spoke to MAM about balancing the Elevator I was told don't worry a
bout
it, just mount one full mass in each spade & cut the other piece of lead
in two
& mount half in each half. I didn't think that sounded too precise but w
ith no
other guidance that is what we did. Of course when we get it all togethe
r
(maybe too late ;^0) we can probably find the correct procedure in AC43 a
nd
check it out.

It is academic before it is together because of the weight of all the
clecos.....

FWIW, YMMV also!

Cheers,

Dave

Bob Patterson wrote:

[quote]Hi Al, and other Elite-ists !

Just a thought - while shortening the spades is definitely

Mike Betti · Post by **Mike Betti** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:09 am

Al, any chance you can explain that doubler and it's location to me. I
didn't quite get it from the previous emails. I have everything lopped off,
that measurement you gave works out perfect!
Thanks,
Mike Betti

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 5:49 PM
Subject: Re: Shortening Elite elevator

Well, guys, I used a large set of snips and it came out OK. Of course, If
you haven't built it yet, then do the cutting before you put it together.

The one thing is, the spades are rather long and narrow when you're done,
and while they still have good strength for vertical loads, they're not

not

so strong when subjected to lateral loads. By now, you're probably
thinking "He found that out the hard way", and you're right. I caught the
tip of the spade on the basement door when I was taking it to the hangar -
and instant crimped spade. And it didn't take much of a bump. It bent

just

in front of the outboard end of the spar. The problem was solved by
re-skinning the spade, but the the doublers I suggested will hopefully
prevent a recurrence if somebody walks into the stab when it's on the

ramp.

'Cause of the spade is bent, it will foul the horizontal stab, and that
could be unpleasant.

BTW, you can guarantee correct alignment of the spade when you're building
it by clecoing the ribs through the 3/16" tooling holes to a nice

straight,

stiff piece of aluminum angle.

Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: Shortening Elite elevator

I'm planning on doing this mod this weekend. Robin says it's a good idea
and
he is hoping some info will be available in a couple weeks, sounds like
the
info is coming from Sean?? was getting it to Robin on what he done?
Anyway,
Al seems to have the direction, just set your table saw fence to

3-11/16"

and run each side through, and your done..........
What is the best way to cut the skin off with out making a mess? Snips?
Cutoff wheel? I'm pretty early in this project and don't have all the
sheetmetal skills down yet. Does the doubler you added seem necessary?
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 6:38 AM
Subject: Re: Shortening Elite elevator

No, you chop the span off the outboard edge of the spade, then

re-locate

the
original tip ribs. Be sure to take care to maintain the alignment of
the
spade or it can wind up twisted. Come to think of it, if you already
have
the spade built, it would be a good idea to cleco the suggested 6"

patch

that spans the roots of the ribs so you don't have to worry about
alignment
so much. I'm going over to the shop tonight to work on the retracts,

so

will try to get a couple of pix.

I don't recommend you do it this way, but it's just as if you put the
elevator in a table saw and lopped about 3 11/16" off each end!

Al Hepburn

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: Shortening Elite elevator

be

nice
you,
elevator
whether Robin

flew,

and
it
three
in
thought

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Alan Hepburn · Post by **Alan Hepburn** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:09 am

Mike:

I have uploaded two pics of the modified spade to the archive. Also one of
the control stick, which may interest some. You can see the plate I put
bridging the main and tip rib. The other doublers are the same lenght
(cordwise) as this plate, and extend inboard spanwise to the second rivet.
For neatness, they are inserted under the original skins, between the skin
and the spar. Hope this clarifies the issue.

Al Hepburn

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Mike Betti · Post by **Mike Betti** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:09 am

Thanks,
What did you fill those tooling holes on the sides of the ribs with?
Mike Betti
771E
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 10:49 PM
Subject: Re: Shortening Elite elevator

Mike:

I have uploaded two pics of the modified spade to the archive. Also one

of

the control stick, which may interest some. You can see the plate I put
bridging the main and tip rib. The other doublers are the same lenght
(cordwise) as this plate, and extend inboard spanwise to the second rivet.
For neatness, they are inserted under the original skins, between the skin
and the spar. Hope this clarifies the issue.

Al Hepburn

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Alan Hepburn · Post by **Alan Hepburn** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:09 am

The tooling holes near the spar are covered by that doubler/patch. I guess
the one near the tip of the spade must be used by one of the bolts that
secures the counter weight. As far as I remember, the one at the trailing
edge is still open.

BTW, if you haven't riveted the spade yet, why not make those unser-skin
doublers the full width of the spade? I did not because once I had the
thing riveted up, I didn't want to disturb the alignment of the spade,? but
if I was doing it again I'd go for a full width doubler.

Al Hepburn

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Mike Betti · Post by **Mike Betti** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:09 am

It looks like those spades run real close to the stab when mated up. How
much clearance do you have in this area? How close have others gotten?

I finished the elevator, but I am going to leave the spades in clecos for
now, I wonder about the amount of lead needed. There is some discussion on
this and I figure I would like to see how other's airplanes fly first. I'm
confused if weight is critical then how can a person adjust weight after
paint? I would say it's a little late by then.

Mike Betti
771E
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 7:00 AM
Subject: Re: Shortening Elite elevator

The tooling holes near the spar are covered by that doubler/patch. I

guess

the one near the tip of the spade must be used by one of the bolts that
secures the counter weight. As far as I remember, the one at the trailing
edge is still open.

BTW, if you haven't riveted the spade yet, why not make those unser-skin
doublers the full width of the spade? I did not because once I had the
thing riveted up, I didn't want to disturb the alignment of the spade,?

but

if I was doing it again I'd go for a full width doubler.

Al Hepburn

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Alan Hepburn · Post by **Alan Hepburn** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:09 am

Mike:

I had the same question about weight, and called Robin at the factory. He
said just to put in 1 1/2 bieces of lead as supplied in the kit per side. I
did this, and it still is slightly elevator heavy (i.e. elevator goes gently
down), and that's without paint. Now, I did beef up the trim horn and put a
doubler under it, and put a piece of 1/4" tubing round the trim pushrod, and
I used Tinnerman nuts and sheet metal screws instead of rivets on the trim
servo plate. I don't think it's critical. I guess we'll see.

The spades do wind up, from memory, about 3/16" from the tip ribs, ao do be
careful to get them at right angles to the spar. It might even be an idea
to mount the stab to the elvator before drilling the spades. There is a fair
bit of end play on the elevator, and a lot more on the ailerons and flaps.
I took this up by installing 1/8" nylon washers from ACS in the outboard
hinges. With only 3/16" to play with, you wouldn't want the thing moving
around. Then, as I say, particularly with the narrower spades, it is
susceptible to damage by someone pushing or walking into it, hence the
doublers. It wouldn't take much of a ding to eliminate that 3/16".

Al

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Mike Betti · Post by **Mike Betti** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:23 pm

Al,
Did you cut down the elevator while if was still mounted on the fuselage?
Mike Betti
771E
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: Shortening Elite elevator

Yep, this is close to becoming a standard mod. for the Elite. You can
just
cut the spades roughly in half span-wise - whatever leaves you with 5/16"
edge allowance on the central rivet hole. I have not yet flown my
aircraft
(close though) so can't report personally on flying qualities. I did put
a
doubler about 1 1/2" wide and 6" long under the skins, and put a doubler
over the junction of the two ribs about 6" long to compensate for lost
stiffness in the spade.

Al Hepburn

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey Steenson" <jsteenson1@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 6:29 PM
Subject: Shortening Elite elevator

Dear Builders,

While accomplishing the elevator horn modification, I am weighing whether
to
shorten the elevator balance at each outboard end by three inches. Robin
Dyck said that this greatly improved handling on the Elite he flew, and
it
is apparently a modification that MAM are thinking about doing.

Has anyone here done this? One approach has been to cut off the three
inches with a die grinder and use the end skin as a drilling guide in
order
to reuse the ribs.

Shortening the flying surfaces seems like a big enough deal that I
thought
I
should ask around!

Best wishes,

Jeffrey Steenson
E714

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