Using a Rebel for Towing Gliders?

[pequeajim]

Is anyone out there using a Rebel for towing gliders?

I wonder how the tailpost and fuse whould hold up?



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[Jesse Jenks]

Jim,
I've been meaning to ask the same question on the list. I was curious if it
is legal to tow anything with an experimental. I bet Bob P would know.
I would think the Rebel would make a great towplane for light gliders. I
would like to build a glider someday and use my Rebel to tow it. Of course
then I would have to find a tow pilot that I trust.
Jesse

From: pequeajim@dcsol.com
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Using a Rebel for Towing Gliders?
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 07:01:35 -0900

Is anyone out there using a Rebel for towing gliders?

I wonder how the tailpost and fuse whould hold up?



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[Bob Patterson]

Hi Jim and Jesse !

I think the Rebel would make a great towplane for gliders -
of all sizes ! Our gliding club is selling off all our certified
180 hp. Super Cubs and going to homebuilt Smith Cubs, so we can
make safety and performance mods without all the hassles ! We have
over 30 years of experience towing with homebuilts, and believe
this is THE way to go ! Not sure if you can do that in the US,
as most gliding ops are commercial !!! If you have a non-profit,
private gliding club, I can't see why you couldn't ......

Towing with the Rebel would require the same mod used on
Cessna 150's, with 150 hp. engines, for towing -- they rivet
a strip of aluminum about 2" wide, 1/8" thick, from the firewall
all the way to the tail, on the belly, and the tow hook mounts
to this. If you don't, the 150 will be 1 or 2" longer at the
end of a season of towing ! ;-)

The only other caveat would be to use only the bungee
gear, preferably with die springs instead of bungees, NOT the
spring gear. I doubt it would take the landing and takeoff
every 6 minutes on rough grass strips that we subject our
Cubs to for about 4,000 to 6,000 flights a season ! Just sold
one with about 7,500 hours on it ....

If you were going to do a lot of towing, I would definitely
add the Fife wing tips and the McKenzie STOL kit (cuff & fences)
to increase the takeoff and climb performance. And, of course,
all the skylights and windows you can - and maybe a mirror, too...

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Sunday 13 November 2005 11:01 am, pequeajim@dcsol.com wrote:

Is anyone out there using a Rebel for towing gliders?

I wonder how the tailpost and fuse whould hold up?

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[Jesse Jenks]

Thanks Bob,
I hadn't thought about the fuselage "stretch" that would happen. I guess I
haven't been around any Spam can tow planes, only tube & fabric. Where and
how would you mount the tow hook on a Rebel? How about a straight piece of
metal bolted between the tail spring and the fus-30 that protrudes aft under
the rudder, and a Schweizer hook bolted to that?
Jesse

From: Bob Patterson <beep@sympatico.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Using a Rebel for Towing Gliders?
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 15:25:34 -0500

Hi Jim and Jesse !

I think the Rebel would make a great towplane for gliders -
of all sizes ! Our gliding club is selling off all our certified
180 hp. Super Cubs and going to homebuilt Smith Cubs, so we can
make safety and performance mods without all the hassles ! We have
over 30 years of experience towing with homebuilts, and believe
this is THE way to go ! Not sure if you can do that in the US,
as most gliding ops are commercial !!! If you have a non-profit,
private gliding club, I can't see why you couldn't ......

Towing with the Rebel would require the same mod used on
Cessna 150's, with 150 hp. engines, for towing -- they rivet
a strip of aluminum about 2" wide, 1/8" thick, from the firewall
all the way to the tail, on the belly, and the tow hook mounts
to this. If you don't, the 150 will be 1 or 2" longer at the
end of a season of towing ! ;-)

The only other caveat would be to use only the bungee
gear, preferably with die springs instead of bungees, NOT the
spring gear. I doubt it would take the landing and takeoff
every 6 minutes on rough grass strips that we subject our
Cubs to for about 4,000 to 6,000 flights a season ! Just sold
one with about 7,500 hours on it ....

If you were going to do a lot of towing, I would definitely
add the Fife wing tips and the McKenzie STOL kit (cuff & fences)
to increase the takeoff and climb performance. And, of course,
all the skylights and windows you can - and maybe a mirror, too...

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Sunday 13 November 2005 11:01 am, pequeajim@dcsol.com wrote:

Is anyone out there using a Rebel for towing gliders?

I wonder how the tailpost and fuse whould hold up?

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[Bob Patterson]

Hi Jesse !

That would work ! On the other end, you could mount the
tow release handle on the floor between the seats. We've modified
the standard Schweizer setup with a handle that's over twice as long.
That (so far) has allowed releases even with very high loads from
out-of-position gliders.... On the Cubs, it's mounted on the
down tube on the left side of the windshield, right in front of
the throttle, where it's easy to grab - unlike the stock setup,
where you have to lean down & grab it on the floor !

.....bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Monday 14 November 2005 05:02 pm, Jesse Jenks wrote:

Thanks Bob,
I hadn't thought about the fuselage "stretch" that would happen. I guess I
haven't been around any Spam can tow planes, only tube & fabric. Where and
how would you mount the tow hook on a Rebel? How about a straight piece of
metal bolted between the tail spring and the fus-30 that protrudes aft

under

the rudder, and a Schweizer hook bolted to that?
Jesse

From: Bob Patterson <beep@sympatico.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Using a Rebel for Towing Gliders?
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 15:25:34 -0500

Hi Jim and Jesse !

I think the Rebel would make a great towplane for gliders -
of all sizes ! Our gliding club is selling off all our certified
180 hp. Super Cubs and going to homebuilt Smith Cubs, so we can
make safety and performance mods without all the hassles ! We have
over 30 years of experience towing with homebuilts, and believe
this is THE way to go ! Not sure if you can do that in the US,
as most gliding ops are commercial !!! If you have a non-profit,
private gliding club, I can't see why you couldn't ......

Towing with the Rebel would require the same mod used on
Cessna 150's, with 150 hp. engines, for towing -- they rivet
a strip of aluminum about 2" wide, 1/8" thick, from the firewall
all the way to the tail, on the belly, and the tow hook mounts
to this. If you don't, the 150 will be 1 or 2" longer at the
end of a season of towing ! ;-)

The only other caveat would be to use only the bungee
gear, preferably with die springs instead of bungees, NOT the
spring gear. I doubt it would take the landing and takeoff
every 6 minutes on rough grass strips that we subject our
Cubs to for about 4,000 to 6,000 flights a season ! Just sold
one with about 7,500 hours on it ....

If you were going to do a lot of towing, I would definitely
add the Fife wing tips and the McKenzie STOL kit (cuff & fences)
to increase the takeoff and climb performance. And, of course,
all the skylights and windows you can - and maybe a mirror, too...

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Sunday 13 November 2005 11:01 am, pequeajim@dcsol.com wrote:

Is anyone out there using a Rebel for towing gliders?

I wonder how the tailpost and fuse whould hold up?

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[Jesse Jenks]

Yeah, I never liked the floor mounted release handle. I was unfortunate to
whiteness a fatal crash of a Pawnee with a floor mount release where the
glider went vertical right after takeoff. The tow pilot couldn't release
and hit the ground in a near vertical dive and exploded. It still turns my
stomach to think about it. The rope broke and the glider made it around the
pattern and landed. After that they inverted all the Schweizer hooks on the
towplanes so they can release with a hard, upward angle pull on the rope. I
don't know if that would have helped in that particular case because he
probably couldn't get his arm down to the floor due to negative G.
Jesse

From: Bob Patterson <beep@sympatico.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Using a Rebel for Towing Gliders?
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 18:01:30 -0500

Hi Jesse !

That would work ! On the other end, you could mount the
tow release handle on the floor between the seats. We've modified
the standard Schweizer setup with a handle that's over twice as long.
That (so far) has allowed releases even with very high loads from
out-of-position gliders.... On the Cubs, it's mounted on the
down tube on the left side of the windshield, right in front of
the throttle, where it's easy to grab - unlike the stock setup,
where you have to lean down & grab it on the floor !

.....bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Monday 14 November 2005 05:02 pm, Jesse Jenks wrote:

Thanks Bob,
I hadn't thought about the fuselage "stretch" that would happen. I guess

I

haven't been around any Spam can tow planes, only tube & fabric. Where

and

how would you mount the tow hook on a Rebel? How about a straight piece

of

metal bolted between the tail spring and the fus-30 that protrudes aft

under

the rudder, and a Schweizer hook bolted to that?
Jesse

From: Bob Patterson <beep@sympatico.ca>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Using a Rebel for Towing Gliders?
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 15:25:34 -0500

Hi Jim and Jesse !

I think the Rebel would make a great towplane for gliders -
of all sizes ! Our gliding club is selling off all our certified
180 hp. Super Cubs and going to homebuilt Smith Cubs, so we can
make safety and performance mods without all the hassles ! We have
over 30 years of experience towing with homebuilts, and believe
this is THE way to go ! Not sure if you can do that in the US,
as most gliding ops are commercial !!! If you have a non-profit,
private gliding club, I can't see why you couldn't ......

Towing with the Rebel would require the same mod used on
Cessna 150's, with 150 hp. engines, for towing -- they rivet
a strip of aluminum about 2" wide, 1/8" thick, from the firewall
all the way to the tail, on the belly, and the tow hook mounts
to this. If you don't, the 150 will be 1 or 2" longer at the
end of a season of towing ! ;-)

The only other caveat would be to use only the bungee
gear, preferably with die springs instead of bungees, NOT the
spring gear. I doubt it would take the landing and takeoff
every 6 minutes on rough grass strips that we subject our
Cubs to for about 4,000 to 6,000 flights a season ! Just sold
one with about 7,500 hours on it ....

If you were going to do a lot of towing, I would definitely
add the Fife wing tips and the McKenzie STOL kit (cuff & fences)
to increase the takeoff and climb performance. And, of course,
all the skylights and windows you can - and maybe a mirror, too...

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Sunday 13 November 2005 11:01 am, pequeajim@dcsol.com wrote:
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