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Elevator drag

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Al Paxhia

Elevator drag

Post by Al Paxhia » Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:43 pm

Ok Wayne, very interesting. On my Moose the elevator is flush with the
stabilizer on floats. On wheels the elevator horn is fully above the
stabilizer. Are you saying by raising the leading edge of the elevator that
will trim the elevator with the stabilizer and I should pick up a knot or
two?
If that's correct the geometry on the brackets has me a little baffled. I
see new mounting brackets with a rearward angle. Tell me more.
Thanks,
Al
PS: I told the wife I was going back to Lake Termagami next summer, she said
"where's that"? I said a little east of here.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: Elite - Pitch Stability

Rebel mounting is on a vertical face..vs your horizontal face brackets. If
you are always carrying 5* up elevator in cruise....I'd start shimming
those
rear attach brackets up and see if you can get rid of the drag of carrying
up elevator. Oh what I loved about my old C182 and it's trimming stab!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: Elite - Pitch Stability

Walter:

This may, of course, be what's left of the Elite pitch stability problem.
It actually doesn't depart from the trimmed attitude on its own, or if it
does, it must do so extremely slowly - I should check that - but when you
give it a prod, that's all it takes to start what would has all the
appearance of being an outside loop, if you left it long enough and the
wings didn't come off first!

And Wayne:

Interesting that only a fraction of a degree on the stab incidence is
enough. You could almost fix that with shims under the stab attach
angles.
I don't know how the Rebel stab is attached, but on the Elite it's just
bolted to an aluminum angle front and back.

Al





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Al Paxhia

Elevator drag

Post by Al Paxhia » Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:43 pm

Wrong word, should have said raising leading edge of stabilizer! Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Al Paxhia" <paxhia2@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 7:44 PM
Subject: Elevator drag

Ok Wayne, very interesting. On my Moose the elevator is flush with the
stabilizer on floats. On wheels the elevator horn is fully above the
stabilizer. Are you saying by raising the leading edge of the elevator
that
will trim the elevator with the stabilizer and I should pick up a knot or
two?
If that's correct the geometry on the brackets has me a little baffled. I
see new mounting brackets with a rearward angle. Tell me more.
Thanks,
Al
PS: I told the wife I was going back to Lake Termagami next summer, she
said
"where's that"? I said a little east of here.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: Elite - Pitch Stability

Rebel mounting is on a vertical face..vs your horizontal face brackets.
If
you are always carrying 5* up elevator in cruise....I'd start shimming
those
rear attach brackets up and see if you can get rid of the drag of
carrying
up elevator. Oh what I loved about my old C182 and it's trimming stab!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: Elite - Pitch Stability

Walter:

This may, of course, be what's left of the Elite pitch stability
problem.
It actually doesn't depart from the trimmed attitude on its own, or if
it
does, it must do so extremely slowly - I should check that - but when
you
give it a prod, that's all it takes to start what would has all the
appearance of being an outside loop, if you left it long enough and the
wings didn't come off first!

And Wayne:

Interesting that only a fraction of a degree on the stab incidence is
enough. You could almost fix that with shims under the stab attach
angles.
I don't know how the Rebel stab is attached, but on the Elite it's just
bolted to an aluminum angle front and back.

Al





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Wayne G. O'Shea

Elevator drag

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:43 pm

So your's on wheels is actually requiring forward stick/down elevator to
keep level flight..ie tail heavy. Raising the leading edge of the STAB
would/could correct for this as you would be giving more chance for airflow
under the stab..lifting same..just like your hand out the window as a
kid....no matter what the age :O)

As for Lake Temagami...a little east probably sums it up well!! Not a long
way east like say PEI !! I plan to build a 16 x 24 ramp this winter and take
it up in 4 pieces while the ice is still in...that'd be your parking spot!!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Al Paxhia" <paxhia2@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 10:44 PM
Subject: Elevator drag

Ok Wayne, very interesting. On my Moose the elevator is flush with the
stabilizer on floats. On wheels the elevator horn is fully above the
stabilizer. Are you saying by raising the leading edge of the elevator
that
will trim the elevator with the stabilizer and I should pick up a knot or
two?
If that's correct the geometry on the brackets has me a little baffled. I
see new mounting brackets with a rearward angle. Tell me more.
Thanks,
Al
PS: I told the wife I was going back to Lake Termagami next summer, she
said
"where's that"? I said a little east of here.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: Elite - Pitch Stability

Rebel mounting is on a vertical face..vs your horizontal face brackets.
If
you are always carrying 5* up elevator in cruise....I'd start shimming
those
rear attach brackets up and see if you can get rid of the drag of
carrying
up elevator. Oh what I loved about my old C182 and it's trimming stab!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: Elite - Pitch Stability

Walter:

This may, of course, be what's left of the Elite pitch stability
problem.
It actually doesn't depart from the trimmed attitude on its own, or if
it
does, it must do so extremely slowly - I should check that - but when
you
give it a prod, that's all it takes to start what would has all the
appearance of being an outside loop, if you left it long enough and the
wings didn't come off first!

And Wayne:

Interesting that only a fraction of a degree on the stab incidence is
enough. You could almost fix that with shims under the stab attach
angles.
I don't know how the Rebel stab is attached, but on the Elite it's just
bolted to an aluminum angle front and back.

Al





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Wayne G. O'Shea

Elevator drag

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:43 pm

I knew what you meant!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Al Paxhia" <paxhia2@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 10:49 PM
Subject: Re: Elevator drag

Wrong word, should have said raising leading edge of stabilizer! Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Al Paxhia" <paxhia2@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 7:44 PM
Subject: Elevator drag

Ok Wayne, very interesting. On my Moose the elevator is flush with the
stabilizer on floats. On wheels the elevator horn is fully above the
stabilizer. Are you saying by raising the leading edge of the elevator
that
will trim the elevator with the stabilizer and I should pick up a knot
or
two?
If that's correct the geometry on the brackets has me a little baffled.
I
see new mounting brackets with a rearward angle. Tell me more.
Thanks,
Al
PS: I told the wife I was going back to Lake Termagami next summer, she
said
"where's that"? I said a little east of here.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: Elite - Pitch Stability

Rebel mounting is on a vertical face..vs your horizontal face brackets.
If
you are always carrying 5* up elevator in cruise....I'd start shimming
those
rear attach brackets up and see if you can get rid of the drag of
carrying
up elevator. Oh what I loved about my old C182 and it's trimming stab!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: Elite - Pitch Stability

the
angles.
just



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Scott Aldrich

Elevator drag

Post by Scott Aldrich » Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:43 pm

I know Steve shimmed the front fitting of his stab up a little. I seem to
remember Robin saying the old demonstrator flew around with the elevator as
you describe yours Al.

PS. Al, I see you are the new Washington Seaplane Pilots Association
President - cool.

Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Al
Paxhia
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 8:50 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Elevator drag

Wrong word, should have said raising leading edge of stabilizer! Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Al Paxhia" <paxhia2@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 7:44 PM
Subject: Elevator drag

Ok Wayne, very interesting. On my Moose the elevator is flush with the
stabilizer on floats. On wheels the elevator horn is fully above the
stabilizer. Are you saying by raising the leading edge of the elevator
that
will trim the elevator with the stabilizer and I should pick up a knot or
two?
If that's correct the geometry on the brackets has me a little baffled. I
see new mounting brackets with a rearward angle. Tell me more.
Thanks,
Al
PS: I told the wife I was going back to Lake Termagami next summer, she
said
"where's that"? I said a little east of here.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: Elite - Pitch Stability

Rebel mounting is on a vertical face..vs your horizontal face brackets.
If
you are always carrying 5* up elevator in cruise....I'd start shimming
those
rear attach brackets up and see if you can get rid of the drag of
carrying
up elevator. Oh what I loved about my old C182 and it's trimming stab!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: Elite - Pitch Stability

Walter:

This may, of course, be what's left of the Elite pitch stability
problem.
It actually doesn't depart from the trimmed attitude on its own, or if
it
does, it must do so extremely slowly - I should check that - but when
you
give it a prod, that's all it takes to start what would has all the
appearance of being an outside loop, if you left it long enough and the
wings didn't come off first!

And Wayne:

Interesting that only a fraction of a degree on the stab incidence is
enough. You could almost fix that with shims under the stab attach
angles.
I don't know how the Rebel stab is attached, but on the Elite it's just
bolted to an aluminum angle front and back.

Al





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Wayne G. O'Shea

Elevator drag

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:43 pm

Glad I'm not alone on this idea! Another reason for those one lug 1/4-28
anchor nuts I suggested under the stab brackets!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Aldrich" <sa@mwutah.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 11:59 PM
Subject: RE: Elevator drag

I know Steve shimmed the front fitting of his stab up a little. I seem to
remember Robin saying the old demonstrator flew around with the elevator
as
you describe yours Al.

PS. Al, I see you are the new Washington Seaplane Pilots Association
President - cool.

Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Al
Paxhia
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 8:50 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Elevator drag

Wrong word, should have said raising leading edge of stabilizer! Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Al Paxhia" <paxhia2@comcast.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 7:44 PM
Subject: Elevator drag

Ok Wayne, very interesting. On my Moose the elevator is flush with the
stabilizer on floats. On wheels the elevator horn is fully above the
stabilizer. Are you saying by raising the leading edge of the elevator
that
will trim the elevator with the stabilizer and I should pick up a knot
or
two?
If that's correct the geometry on the brackets has me a little baffled.
I
see new mounting brackets with a rearward angle. Tell me more.
Thanks,
Al
PS: I told the wife I was going back to Lake Termagami next summer, she
said
"where's that"? I said a little east of here.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: Elite - Pitch Stability

Rebel mounting is on a vertical face..vs your horizontal face brackets.
If
you are always carrying 5* up elevator in cruise....I'd start shimming
those
rear attach brackets up and see if you can get rid of the drag of
carrying
up elevator. Oh what I loved about my old C182 and it's trimming stab!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: Elite - Pitch Stability

the
angles.
just



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