Plastic lines on 1800 Amphibs

[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Thought I would take this quiet time to put out two cents worth of my
knowledge on plumbing your amphibs.

I've stood up for the MAM supplied 3/8" Parker Parflex for some time...with
Howard going 7 summers and never leaking as much as a drop... even after his
hard water arrival the gear worked fine to load onto a trailer! While
discussing this plastic line with the gentleman I have assembling our wheel
skis he was cautioning me how his lines where like glass when he removed his
set from his Luscombe (that's right Luscombe 8E -150HP) this fall. I said
nonsense...I have the lines right here that I took out of FOKM when I was
stretching the floats and they are about 8 years old or so. I showed him
that I could bend the lines right in half without cracking.....he then took
the line...looked for the yellowed area of the lines that sat between the
float deck and the forward strut...bent it (or should I say attempted to
bend) and it shattered like a nice piece of priceless crystal dropped in a
jewelry store.

Guess what I am saying is the lines are excellent anywhere they are hidden
from the sun. What I would do if I was anyone with the plastic lines is to
make a streamline cover to keep the sun off the lines especially where they
come out of the float and into the forward mounting strut. This area is the
worst because it has the added help of sun reflection and magnification from
the alum deck of the float. The upper area where it comes out of the strut
and into the fuselage didn't shatter...but it did crack open when bent. This
area would be a little harder to make a cover for...but not impossible. Even
"tin" tape over the lines would stop the UV from changing the nylon
properties.

Cheers,
Wayne





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[Drew Dalgleish]

At 10:24 PM 11/23/2004 -0500, you wrote:

Thought I would take this quiet time to put out two cents worth of my
knowledge on plumbing your amphibs.

I've stood up for the MAM supplied 3/8" Parker Parflex for some time...with
Howard going 7 summers and never leaking as much as a drop... even after his
hard water arrival the gear worked fine to load onto a trailer! While
discussing this plastic line with the gentleman I have assembling our wheel
skis he was cautioning me how his lines where like glass when he removed his
set from his Luscombe (that's right Luscombe 8E -150HP) this fall. I said
nonsense...I have the lines right here that I took out of FOKM when I was
stretching the floats and they are about 8 years old or so. I showed him
that I could bend the lines right in half without cracking.....he then took
the line...looked for the yellowed area of the lines that sat between the
float deck and the forward strut...bent it (or should I say attempted to
bend) and it shattered like a nice piece of priceless crystal dropped in a
jewelry store.

Guess what I am saying is the lines are excellent anywhere they are hidden
from the sun. What I would do if I was anyone with the plastic lines is to
make a streamline cover to keep the sun off the lines especially where they
come out of the float and into the forward mounting strut. This area is the
worst because it has the added help of sun reflection and magnification from
the alum deck of the float. The upper area where it comes out of the strut
and into the fuselage didn't shatter...but it did crack open when bent. This
area would be a little harder to make a cover for...but not impossible. Even
"tin" tape over the lines would stop the UV from changing the nylon
properties.

Cheers,
Wayne

That's if you got parker lines in the fist place. I was supplied 3
different kinds of line and none of it was parker except the brake line.
Drew





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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Don't think what I test broke was Parker either...but neither are Howard's.
He had a couple different lines when I assembled his kit. I threw aside the
milky coloured stuff (polyethylene) and used the clearer stuff I knew was
nylon by test burning it. 20 years in plastics.... so I can burn most
anything and tell you what it is.

Point I was making Drew is if it's working for you great...but get it
covered up on the float decks so you don't spoil you day when it
accidentally gets hit with a paddle or something.

The only thing better out there than Parker Parflex (in a similar plastic
form!) is Nyloseal. The thing with Nyloseal is though that is thicker walled
and harder to get the fittings to bite into. The tube needs to be warmed in
hot water before assembly to get the ferrules to bite in.

Next step up is solid lines....that's what I plumbed my entire system with
to install my wheel skis (my only rubber lines are reservoir to pump and
selector exhaust to reservoir). Will also be installing solid lines down the
front attach struts thru the float decks (when I put my amphibs on come
spring) and from there I think I'll just tee into the plastic lines already
in the floats.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 10:39 PM
Subject: Re: Plastic lines on 1800 Amphibs

At 10:24 PM 11/23/2004 -0500, you wrote:

Thought I would take this quiet time to put out two cents worth of my
knowledge on plumbing your amphibs.

I've stood up for the MAM supplied 3/8" Parker Parflex for some

time...with

Howard going 7 summers and never leaking as much as a drop... even after

his

hard water arrival the gear worked fine to load onto a trailer! While
discussing this plastic line with the gentleman I have assembling our

wheel

skis he was cautioning me how his lines where like glass when he removed

his

set from his Luscombe (that's right Luscombe 8E -150HP) this fall. I said
nonsense...I have the lines right here that I took out of FOKM when I was
stretching the floats and they are about 8 years old or so. I showed him
that I could bend the lines right in half without cracking.....he then

took

the line...looked for the yellowed area of the lines that sat between the
float deck and the forward strut...bent it (or should I say attempted to
bend) and it shattered like a nice piece of priceless crystal dropped in

a

jewelry store.

Guess what I am saying is the lines are excellent anywhere they are

hidden

from the sun. What I would do if I was anyone with the plastic lines is

to

make a streamline cover to keep the sun off the lines especially where

they

come out of the float and into the forward mounting strut. This area is

the

worst because it has the added help of sun reflection and magnification

from

the alum deck of the float. The upper area where it comes out of the

strut

and into the fuselage didn't shatter...but it did crack open when bent.

This

area would be a little harder to make a cover for...but not impossible.

Even

"tin" tape over the lines would stop the UV from changing the nylon
properties.

Cheers,
Wayne

That's if you got parker lines in the fist place. I was supplied 3
different kinds of line and none of it was parker except the brake line.
Drew





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[Bob Fisher]

hi wayne thanks much for that observation i for one , am going to cover
mine.

bob fisher rebel 342 amphib
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 10:24 PM
Subject: Plastic lines on 1800 Amphibs

Thought I would take this quiet time to put out two cents worth of my
knowledge on plumbing your amphibs.

I've stood up for the MAM supplied 3/8" Parker Parflex for some

time...with

Howard going 7 summers and never leaking as much as a drop... even after

his

hard water arrival the gear worked fine to load onto a trailer! While
discussing this plastic line with the gentleman I have assembling our

wheel

skis he was cautioning me how his lines where like glass when he removed

his

set from his Luscombe (that's right Luscombe 8E -150HP) this fall. I said
nonsense...I have the lines right here that I took out of FOKM when I was
stretching the floats and they are about 8 years old or so. I showed him
that I could bend the lines right in half without cracking.....he then

took

the line...looked for the yellowed area of the lines that sat between the
float deck and the forward strut...bent it (or should I say attempted to
bend) and it shattered like a nice piece of priceless crystal dropped in a
jewelry store.

Guess what I am saying is the lines are excellent anywhere they are hidden
from the sun. What I would do if I was anyone with the plastic lines is to
make a streamline cover to keep the sun off the lines especially where

they

come out of the float and into the forward mounting strut. This area is

the

worst because it has the added help of sun reflection and magnification

from

the alum deck of the float. The upper area where it comes out of the strut
and into the fuselage didn't shatter...but it did crack open when bent.

This

area would be a little harder to make a cover for...but not impossible.

Even

"tin" tape over the lines would stop the UV from changing the nylon
properties.

Cheers,
Wayne





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[Ken]

I seem to recall that Parker lists an opaque black UV resistant tubing
as well.
Having observed the mess that some electrical tapes create, I am always
hesitant to use any adhesives (tape) on plastic unless I know the long
term effect. Coming from Wayne perhaps it means that tape is OK on this?
I was planning to just tie some plain aluminum foil on the bottom of my
brake lines. Another possibility might be using silicone self fusing
tape although I don't know how transparent that is to UV.

Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

Don't think what I test broke was Parker either...but neither are Howard's.
He had a couple different lines when I assembled his kit. I threw aside the
milky coloured stuff (polyethylene) and used the clearer stuff I knew was
nylon by test burning it. 20 years in plastics.... so I can burn most
anything and tell you what it is.

Point I was making Drew is if it's working for you great...but get it
covered up on the float decks so you don't spoil you day when it
accidentally gets hit with a paddle or something.

The only thing better out there than Parker Parflex (in a similar plastic
form!) is Nyloseal. The thing with Nyloseal is though that is thicker walled
and harder to get the fittings to bite into. The tube needs to be warmed in
hot water before assembly to get the ferrules to bite in.

Next step up is solid lines....that's what I plumbed my entire system with
to install my wheel skis (my only rubber lines are reservoir to pump and
selector exhaust to reservoir). Will also be installing solid lines down the
front attach struts thru the float decks (when I put my amphibs on come
spring) and from there I think I'll just tee into the plastic lines already
in the floats.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 10:39 PM
Subject: Re: Plastic lines on 1800 Amphibs

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[brad]

Morning All,

I have been reading the ongoing discussion about plastic lines.
Does any one have any experiance using Stainless Steel Braid lines.

I'm not sure if weight is a issue but it would seem that durability would be
great.

Brad
bhewlett@omni-techsys.com

On 11/24/2004 4:19 AM, KLEHMAN@ALBEDO.NET wrote to REBEL-BUILDERS:

-> Received: by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP Router v6.0.451.3)
-> for rebel-builders@dcsol.com; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 04:35:02 -0900
-> Received: from juliet.albedo.net ([206.51.22.2]) EHLO=juliet.albedo.net
-> by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP v6.0.451.3) with SMTP
-> id 209968328; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 04:35:00 -0900
-> Received: from albedo.net (ppp161.albedo.net [206.51.22.161])
-> (authenticated bits=0)
-> by juliet.albedo.net (8.12.11/8.12.3) with ESMTP id iAODYu1C026383
-> for <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 08:34:57 -0500
-> Message-ID: <41A48A5F.5060700@albedo.net>
-> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 08:19:27 -0500
-> From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
-> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.2)
Gecko/20021120 Netscape/7.01
-> X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
-> X-Orig-MIME-Version: 1.0
-> To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
-> Subject: Re: Plastic lines on 1800 Amphibs
-> References: <3.0.1.32.20041123223902.00e9be50@mail.cabletv.on.ca>
<013901c4d1d9$5da06e40$e401910a@celeron266a>
-> X-Orig-Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
-> X-Orig-Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
-> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/565/Sat Oct 30 09:31:13 2004
-> clamav-milter version 0.80j
-> on juliet.albedo.net
-> X-Virus-Status: Clean
-> X-Antivirus-Remover: Message filtered with wsAV v2.0.0 Build 001
->
-> I seem to recall that Parker lists an opaque black UV resistant tubing
-> as well.
-> Having observed the mess that some electrical tapes create, I am always
-> hesitant to use any adhesives (tape) on plastic unless I know the long
-> term effect. Coming from Wayne perhaps it means that tape is OK on this?
-> I was planning to just tie some plain aluminum foil on the bottom of my
-> brake lines. Another possibility might be using silicone self fusing
-> tape although I don't know how transparent that is to UV.
->
-> Ken
->
-> Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:
->
-> >Don't think what I test broke was Parker either...but neither are
Howard's.
-> >He had a couple different lines when I assembled his kit. I threw aside
the
-> >milky coloured stuff (polyethylene) and used the clearer stuff I knew was
-> >nylon by test burning it. 20 years in plastics.... so I can burn most
-> >anything and tell you what it is.
-> >
-> >Point I was making Drew is if it's working for you great...but get it
-> >covered up on the float decks so you don't spoil you day when it
-> >accidentally gets hit with a paddle or something.
-> >
-> >The only thing better out there than Parker Parflex (in a similar plastic
-> >form!) is Nyloseal. The thing with Nyloseal is though that is thicker
walled
-> >and harder to get the fittings to bite into. The tube needs to be warmed
in
-> >hot water before assembly to get the ferrules to bite in.
-> >
-> >Next step up is solid lines....that's what I plumbed my entire system with
-> >to install my wheel skis (my only rubber lines are reservoir to pump and
-> >selector exhaust to reservoir). Will also be installing solid lines down
the
-> >front attach struts thru the float decks (when I put my amphibs on come
-> >spring) and from there I think I'll just tee into the plastic lines
already
-> >in the floats.
-> >
-> >Cheers,
-> >Wayne
-> >
-> >----- Original Message -----
-> >From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
-> >To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
-> >Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 10:39 PM
-> >Subject: Re: Plastic lines on 1800 Amphibs
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
->
->





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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

You're probably right about the glue issues Ken...but I figure the CTC cheap
tin tape is so lacking in glue don't see it being a chemical reaction
issue....BUT you never know!

Yes the black opaque UV stabilized tube might be the route to take for new
installations wanting to stay with the plastic lines....just remember you'll
have to be more conscious about pressure elevation in the lines due to the
black absorbing heat and heating the Fluid up a bit more than the clear
lines did (although probably a minor issue compared to lines deteriorating)

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: Plastic lines on 1800 Amphibs

I seem to recall that Parker lists an opaque black UV resistant tubing
as well.
Having observed the mess that some electrical tapes create, I am always
hesitant to use any adhesives (tape) on plastic unless I know the long
term effect. Coming from Wayne perhaps it means that tape is OK on this?
I was planning to just tie some plain aluminum foil on the bottom of my
brake lines. Another possibility might be using silicone self fusing
tape although I don't know how transparent that is to UV.

Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

Don't think what I test broke was Parker either...but neither are

Howard's.

He had a couple different lines when I assembled his kit. I threw aside

the

milky coloured stuff (polyethylene) and used the clearer stuff I knew was
nylon by test burning it. 20 years in plastics.... so I can burn most
anything and tell you what it is.

Point I was making Drew is if it's working for you great...but get it
covered up on the float decks so you don't spoil you day when it
accidentally gets hit with a paddle or something.

The only thing better out there than Parker Parflex (in a similar plastic
form!) is Nyloseal. The thing with Nyloseal is though that is thicker

walled

and harder to get the fittings to bite into. The tube needs to be warmed

in

hot water before assembly to get the ferrules to bite in.

Next step up is solid lines....that's what I plumbed my entire system

with

to install my wheel skis (my only rubber lines are reservoir to pump and
selector exhaust to reservoir). Will also be installing solid lines down

the

front attach struts thru the float decks (when I put my amphibs on come
spring) and from there I think I'll just tee into the plastic lines

already

in the floats.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 10:39 PM
Subject: Re: Plastic lines on 1800 Amphibs

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[Angus McKenzie]

After recent multiple failures of our plastic amphib and brake lines both
internal and external I intend to replace all with alum.line prior to 2005
float season.Our floats were 1800 kit#001 built by Carm Titus and have been
hangared since new (both on and off season) ........Angus

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: Plastic lines on 1800 Amphibs

Don't think what I test broke was Parker either...but neither are

Howard's.

He had a couple different lines when I assembled his kit. I threw aside

the

milky coloured stuff (polyethylene) and used the clearer stuff I knew was
nylon by test burning it. 20 years in plastics.... so I can burn most
anything and tell you what it is.

Point I was making Drew is if it's working for you great...but get it
covered up on the float decks so you don't spoil you day when it
accidentally gets hit with a paddle or something.

The only thing better out there than Parker Parflex (in a similar plastic
form!) is Nyloseal. The thing with Nyloseal is though that is thicker

walled

and harder to get the fittings to bite into. The tube needs to be warmed

in

hot water before assembly to get the ferrules to bite in.

Next step up is solid lines....that's what I plumbed my entire system with
to install my wheel skis (my only rubber lines are reservoir to pump and
selector exhaust to reservoir). Will also be installing solid lines down

the

front attach struts thru the float decks (when I put my amphibs on come
spring) and from there I think I'll just tee into the plastic lines

already

in the floats.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 10:39 PM
Subject: Re: Plastic lines on 1800 Amphibs

At 10:24 PM 11/23/2004 -0500, you wrote:

Thought I would take this quiet time to put out two cents worth of my
knowledge on plumbing your amphibs.

I've stood up for the MAM supplied 3/8" Parker Parflex for some

time...with

Howard going 7 summers and never leaking as much as a drop... even

after

his

hard water arrival the gear worked fine to load onto a trailer! While
discussing this plastic line with the gentleman I have assembling our

wheel

skis he was cautioning me how his lines where like glass when he

removed

his

set from his Luscombe (that's right Luscombe 8E -150HP) this fall. I

said

nonsense...I have the lines right here that I took out of FOKM when I

was

stretching the floats and they are about 8 years old or so. I showed

him

that I could bend the lines right in half without cracking.....he then

took

the line...looked for the yellowed area of the lines that sat between

the

float deck and the forward strut...bent it (or should I say attempted

to

bend) and it shattered like a nice piece of priceless crystal dropped

in

a

jewelry store.

Guess what I am saying is the lines are excellent anywhere they are

hidden

from the sun. What I would do if I was anyone with the plastic lines is

to

make a streamline cover to keep the sun off the lines especially where

they

come out of the float and into the forward mounting strut. This area is

the

worst because it has the added help of sun reflection and magnification

from

the alum deck of the float. The upper area where it comes out of the

strut

and into the fuselage didn't shatter...but it did crack open when bent.

This

area would be a little harder to make a cover for...but not impossible.

Even

"tin" tape over the lines would stop the UV from changing the nylon
properties.

Cheers,
Wayne

That's if you got parker lines in the fist place. I was supplied 3
different kinds of line and none of it was parker except the brake line.
Drew





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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Received another persons idea off line.......prior to installation slip some
black shrink tubing over the hyrdaulic tubing to cover the exposed areas.
Then when everything is in place hit it lightly with the heat gun to shrink
it in place.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 9:33 AM
Subject: Re: Plastic lines on 1800 Amphibs

You're probably right about the glue issues Ken...but I figure the CTC

cheap

tin tape is so lacking in glue don't see it being a chemical reaction
issue....BUT you never know!

Yes the black opaque UV stabilized tube might be the route to take for new
installations wanting to stay with the plastic lines....just remember

you'll

have to be more conscious about pressure elevation in the lines due to the
black absorbing heat and heating the Fluid up a bit more than the clear
lines did (although probably a minor issue compared to lines

deteriorating)

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: Plastic lines on 1800 Amphibs

I seem to recall that Parker lists an opaque black UV resistant tubing
as well.
Having observed the mess that some electrical tapes create, I am always
hesitant to use any adhesives (tape) on plastic unless I know the long
term effect. Coming from Wayne perhaps it means that tape is OK on this?
I was planning to just tie some plain aluminum foil on the bottom of my
brake lines. Another possibility might be using silicone self fusing
tape although I don't know how transparent that is to UV.

Ken

Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

Don't think what I test broke was Parker either...but neither are

Howard's.

He had a couple different lines when I assembled his kit. I threw aside

the

milky coloured stuff (polyethylene) and used the clearer stuff I knew

was

nylon by test burning it. 20 years in plastics.... so I can burn most
anything and tell you what it is.

Point I was making Drew is if it's working for you great...but get it
covered up on the float decks so you don't spoil you day when it
accidentally gets hit with a paddle or something.

The only thing better out there than Parker Parflex (in a similar

plastic

form!) is Nyloseal. The thing with Nyloseal is though that is thicker

walled

and harder to get the fittings to bite into. The tube needs to be

warmed

in

hot water before assembly to get the ferrules to bite in.

Next step up is solid lines....that's what I plumbed my entire system

with

to install my wheel skis (my only rubber lines are reservoir to pump

and

selector exhaust to reservoir). Will also be installing solid lines

down

the

front attach struts thru the float decks (when I put my amphibs on come
spring) and from there I think I'll just tee into the plastic lines

already

in the floats.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 10:39 PM
Subject: Re: Plastic lines on 1800 Amphibs

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[Legeorgen]

I have my plastic lines outside the struts and have had more than one person
tell me to cover the lines from UV or they will get brittle. Guess I'll be
rapping them in alum tape this winter. Or fit bulkheads to the deck and run
aircraft hydraulic line outside the cabin and float deck.

Bruce




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[Rebflyer]

Hi all,
I chose to cover my exposed lines ( they go down the front of the strut)
by slitting 3/8 id rubber fuel line and pushing it over the 5 or six inch
exposed area. It also gives some impact protection. Wish I'd thought of the
shrink tubing!! Curt




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