Engines and Props

[bransom]

OK, another thing I've been wondering about, with apologies to the true
Lycoming fans, is cowl looks on Subaru powered Rebels. I've only seen
pictures of a few, and IMO, the cowl and front end looks a little chunky. I
really like the looks of the Murphy speed cowl (for Lyc). Although a Sub 2.5
starts with 165hp :), anyone know if it could be stuffed into anything
approaching the size of the speed cowl?

...admitting that looks and vanity could determine my engine choice!!

-Ben



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[Bob Patterson]

Hi Ben !

The reason the cowls look chunky is the radiator ! Many
Sube-powered Rebels took the easy route and used the Murphy cowling
for the Rotax 912, with the radiator & oil cooler already mounted.
This setup works well, and the Rebel flies great this way, burning
about 60 % of the fuel for a Lyc. - but you will spend time sorting
out re-drives, wiring, cooling, etc. Be careful - there are some
"Sube convertors" that have had deposits for YEARS and not delivered
(and they do come to shows !!) (Hint - they also sell 'adjustable'
props ...)

You could stuff a Sub 2.5 into the "speed cowl" (NO difference
in speed) - as long as you don't mind not being able to get in
to work on it easily !! (It's a pain with a Lyc. too !) (especially
on floats !) ...... AND you can figure out how to get a radiator
hooked up so it works ! COULD be done - just add a year to
build time !! ;-) :-)

I threw my 'speed cowl' away and got a much better setup
using a Thorp T-18 nosebowl from AS ($85), and aluminum in a 4 door
configuration - see the photos in the archives. MUCH easier to
work on, just as sexy, and has just as good visibility forward !!
(Also less expensive, if you don't mind the work.)

.....bobp

--------------------------------orig.----------------------
At 11:27 AM 8/26/04 -0800, you wrote:

OK, another thing I've been wondering about, with apologies to the true
Lycoming fans, is cowl looks on Subaru powered Rebels. I've only seen
pictures of a few, and IMO, the cowl and front end looks a little chunky. I
really like the looks of the Murphy speed cowl (for Lyc). Although a Sub 2.5
starts with 165hp :), anyone know if it could be stuffed into anything
approaching the size of the speed cowl?

...admitting that looks and vanity could determine my engine choice!!

-Ben



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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

nnnnssss!!!!

Threw away??!! You got lucky and mother nature took it out for you!! ))

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <apat@istar.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 8:28 PM
Subject: RE: Engines and Props

Hi Ben !

The reason the cowls look chunky is the radiator ! Many
Sube-powered Rebels took the easy route and used the Murphy cowling
for the Rotax 912, with the radiator & oil cooler already mounted.
This setup works well, and the Rebel flies great this way, burning
about 60 % of the fuel for a Lyc. - but you will spend time sorting
out re-drives, wiring, cooling, etc. Be careful - there are some
"Sube convertors" that have had deposits for YEARS and not delivered
(and they do come to shows !!) (Hint - they also sell 'adjustable'
props ...)

You could stuff a Sub 2.5 into the "speed cowl" (NO difference
in speed) - as long as you don't mind not being able to get in
to work on it easily !! (It's a pain with a Lyc. too !) (especially
on floats !) ...... AND you can figure out how to get a radiator
hooked up so it works ! COULD be done - just add a year to
build time !! ;-) :-)

I threw my 'speed cowl' away and got a much better setup
using a Thorp T-18 nosebowl from AS ($85), and aluminum in a 4 door
configuration - see the photos in the archives. MUCH easier to
work on, just as sexy, and has just as good visibility forward !!
(Also less expensive, if you don't mind the work.)

.....bobp

--------------------------------orig.----------------------
At 11:27 AM 8/26/04 -0800, you wrote:

OK, another thing I've been wondering about, with apologies to the true
Lycoming fans, is cowl looks on Subaru powered Rebels. I've only seen
pictures of a few, and IMO, the cowl and front end looks a little chunky.

I

really like the looks of the Murphy speed cowl (for Lyc). Although a Sub

2.5

starts with 165hp :), anyone know if it could be stuffed into anything
approaching the size of the speed cowl?

...admitting that looks and vanity could determine my engine choice!!

-Ben



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[Bob Patterson]

True, but THEN I threw it away !! Wanted to for a LOOONG
time ! :-) ;-)

.....bobp

------------------------------orig.----------------------
At 08:35 PM 8/26/04 -0400, you wrote:

nnnnssss!!!!

Threw away??!! You got lucky and mother nature took it out for you!! ))

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <apat@istar.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 8:28 PM
Subject: RE: Engines and Props

Hi Ben !

The reason the cowls look chunky is the radiator ! Many
Sube-powered Rebels took the easy route and used the Murphy cowling
for the Rotax 912, with the radiator & oil cooler already mounted.
This setup works well, and the Rebel flies great this way, burning
about 60 % of the fuel for a Lyc. - but you will spend time sorting
out re-drives, wiring, cooling, etc. Be careful - there are some
"Sube convertors" that have had deposits for YEARS and not delivered
(and they do come to shows !!) (Hint - they also sell 'adjustable'
props ...)

You could stuff a Sub 2.5 into the "speed cowl" (NO difference
in speed) - as long as you don't mind not being able to get in
to work on it easily !! (It's a pain with a Lyc. too !) (especially
on floats !) ...... AND you can figure out how to get a radiator
hooked up so it works ! COULD be done - just add a year to
build time !! ;-) :-)

I threw my 'speed cowl' away and got a much better setup
using a Thorp T-18 nosebowl from AS ($85), and aluminum in a 4 door
configuration - see the photos in the archives. MUCH easier to
work on, just as sexy, and has just as good visibility forward !!
(Also less expensive, if you don't mind the work.)

.....bobp

--------------------------------orig.----------------------
At 11:27 AM 8/26/04 -0800, you wrote:

OK, another thing I've been wondering about, with apologies to the true
Lycoming fans, is cowl looks on Subaru powered Rebels. I've only seen
pictures of a few, and IMO, the cowl and front end looks a little chunky.

I

really like the looks of the Murphy speed cowl (for Lyc). Although a Sub

2.5

starts with 165hp :), anyone know if it could be stuffed into anything
approaching the size of the speed cowl?

...admitting that looks and vanity could determine my engine choice!!

-Ben



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[bransom]

Thanks again for your info Bob on stuffing a Soob into the various cowl
choices. Yes, I had seen the pics you posted -- very nice! -- fortunately
email doesn't show me drooling with envy. ;-) As for the extra
time/hassle ...ahemmm, "education", of a Soob install -- yep, I'm pretty
wary. Jury still out while i fiddle with the next 10k rivets. Also have
learned enf to stay from some of the Soob outfitters. So far, would be
inclined and foolish enf to home brew my own + write a check to Guy Marcotte
(while waiting in front of his shop).
-Ben/496R



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[Bob Patterson]

Hi Ben !

Sounds like you're on the right track ! I like that new
2.5 L Soob, and Guy's drives - would still be inclined to use
the Murphy 912 cowl, with mods (as done by Geert Frank on his
Soob Rebel) for easy access..... just because it's a "bolt-on"
solution. ;-)
(As much as ANYTHING is 'bolt-on' in homebuilding ! ;-) :-) )

Crossflow made a beautiful metal cowl for Rob Percival's Soob -
they might still have drawings or photos available. It was a lot
of work, with the nosebowl all done on an English Wheel, but
easy to get at things for maintenance !

It's a challege to have sexy AND functional ! There IS
lots of help here on the list, though, if you do decide to go
with the Soob ...

Sounds like another one I'd love to fly ! :-)

.....bobp

------------------------------orig.-------------------------
At 09:37 PM 8/26/04 -0800, you wrote:

Thanks again for your info Bob on stuffing a Soob into the various cowl
choices. Yes, I had seen the pics you posted -- very nice! -- fortunately
email doesn't show me drooling with envy. ;-) As for the extra
time/hassle ...ahemmm, "education", of a Soob install -- yep, I'm pretty
wary. Jury still out while i fiddle with the next 10k rivets. Also have
learned enf to stay from some of the Soob outfitters. So far, would be
inclined and foolish enf to home brew my own + write a check to Guy Marcotte
(while waiting in front of his shop).
-Ben/496R



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[Ken]

Ben

I would guess that it could be done but probably not without custom
exhaust and intake.

FWIW I consider the 2.5 TOPPED at 165 hp normally aspirated in stock
internal condition. The claim that the stock engine makes 165 because
the computer says 100% load is bogus. Fundamentally all the later oem
computer knows is rpm and manifold pressure so it reports 100% if those
parameters are met regardless of actual mass flow or power. Once you
change the exhaust or (especially) the intake that may or may not
correspond to 165 hp. The computer has no way of reading actual power.
Fuel flow is meaningless because the oxygen sensor is full scale rich
and ignored at aircraft power settings. Unlike the 2.2, the 2.5 is not
an easy engine to coax more power out of as the factory has done their
homework.

Ken

bransom@dcsol.com wrote:

OK, another thing I've been wondering about, with apologies to the true
Lycoming fans, is cowl looks on Subaru powered Rebels. I've only seen
pictures of a few, and IMO, the cowl and front end looks a little chunky. I
really like the looks of the Murphy speed cowl (for Lyc). Although a Sub 2.5
starts with 165hp :), anyone know if it could be stuffed into anything
approaching the size of the speed cowl?

...admitting that looks and vanity could determine my engine choice!!

-Ben

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